Can moly damage engine?
- Thread starter snakyjake
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If you need to add an additive then you need to buy better oil.
Schaeffers and RL don't seem to thing Moly is a problem, they load their oils with it.
Schaeffers and pretty sure RL use a form of MoDTC (Molybdenum Dithiocarbonate) not MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide). Do not use MoS2 in your engine, yes it can be damaging, likely more to your cams than the injectors, but maybe there too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post537785
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post538839
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post533809
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post532080
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post537785
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post538839
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post533809
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post532080
Originally Posted By: Tempest
If you need to add an additive then you need to buy better oil.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but look what the government is doing. Adding ethanol to gasoline and causing corrosion problems. Mandating ULSD, and creating lubrication problems. And now there's the low emission oil. What is all this doing for older vehicles?
And then there's all the marketing of how much better the new diesel oil is than the old. Or the marketing of additives.
I was using Delo 400, but now I believe the low emission formula doesn't have moly and some other additives. So now I'm considering adding my own additives.
Schaeffer's and Redline would be ideal, but too expensive. I was thinking of adding moly to a cheaper oil.
Probably won't be much longer before we're all using bean oil.
Jake
If you need to add an additive then you need to buy better oil.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but look what the government is doing. Adding ethanol to gasoline and causing corrosion problems. Mandating ULSD, and creating lubrication problems. And now there's the low emission oil. What is all this doing for older vehicles?
And then there's all the marketing of how much better the new diesel oil is than the old. Or the marketing of additives.
I was using Delo 400, but now I believe the low emission formula doesn't have moly and some other additives. So now I'm considering adding my own additives.
Schaeffer's and Redline would be ideal, but too expensive. I was thinking of adding moly to a cheaper oil.
Probably won't be much longer before we're all using bean oil.
Jake
Delo 400 LE still has moly in it, and a big plus, a boatload of boron. Do not worry about this oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1633073
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1633073
Originally Posted By: snakyjake
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Schaeffers and RL don't seem to thing Moly is a problem, they load their oils with it.
If it is so good, why don't I see more products with high amounts of moly? Amsoil doesn't seem to promote moly either.
Moly isn't cheap, and maybe they feel there are other adds that do as well, no one is sharing any trade secrets that's for sure.
On another board I visit guys are mixing up their own MOS2 blends with some pretty good success. They use is in oil, and to burnish new engine parts like bearings during a rebuild.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Schaeffers and RL don't seem to thing Moly is a problem, they load their oils with it.
If it is so good, why don't I see more products with high amounts of moly? Amsoil doesn't seem to promote moly either.
Moly isn't cheap, and maybe they feel there are other adds that do as well, no one is sharing any trade secrets that's for sure.
On another board I visit guys are mixing up their own MOS2 blends with some pretty good success. They use is in oil, and to burnish new engine parts like bearings during a rebuild.
Originally Posted By: jmac
Schaeffers and pretty sure RL use a form of MoDTC (Molybdenum Dithiocarbonate) not MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide). Do not use MoS2 in your engine, yes it can be damaging, likely more to your cams than the injectors, but maybe there too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post537785
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post538839
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post533809
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post532080
Not sure if you actually read those threads but the one useful thread where it actually is discussed a chemist/tribologist comes out to say MoS2 particles (like the ones in a colloidal MoS2 solution) will shear and slide (ie protect) and not damage your engine.
Schaeffers and pretty sure RL use a form of MoDTC (Molybdenum Dithiocarbonate) not MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide). Do not use MoS2 in your engine, yes it can be damaging, likely more to your cams than the injectors, but maybe there too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post537785
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post538839
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post533809
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post532080
Not sure if you actually read those threads but the one useful thread where it actually is discussed a chemist/tribologist comes out to say MoS2 particles (like the ones in a colloidal MoS2 solution) will shear and slide (ie protect) and not damage your engine.
Last edited:
I got interested in MOS2 and found it on another board and they went into it in quite some detail, it sounded pretty good. Thanks for the links! It actually plates to metal IIRC, its been a while, but in small doses it might actually be very good.
It would be best to not add anything to your oil . Then there will be no worries.
Every one of those threads contain useful information if you know how to interpret what you read.
What happens to the traction coefficient of the oil that you add colloidal Mos2 too?
What kind of cam followers are used in many diesel engines and in the OP's engine?
What are the effects of reducing the traction coefficient of oils used in most high speed diesel engines today?
What are the trade-offs a formulator or additive developer makes between the various organo-metallic additives and the non-metallics when developing a formulation?
If you cannot answer those questions you have no business adding MoS2 to your oil, unless you like playing Russian Roulette.
What can get away with in gas engines does not always apply in diesel engines.
Here is some more quotes made recently by that same tribologist that you note:
There is colloidal moly M0S2 which is moly powder suspended in an oil carrier and then there is Moly DTC or Moly DibutylDTC often called, "soluble moly." The latter is the only moly form now used in modern PCMO's and gear lubricants.
"Most lubricant manufacturers have abandoned colloidal moly M0S2, so you don't know what you're getting when you purchase something like Lubromoly. I suspect they are using left over supplies of powdered moly."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1234989&page=2
I'm sure some amounts of colloidal MoS2 are fine IN PROPER FORMULATION. If you don't know the limits of that formulation you have know idea of how much you can add of a friction reducer like MoS2 before you drastically alter a critical operating or pass a parameter limit of that lubricant.
What happens to the traction coefficient of the oil that you add colloidal Mos2 too?
What kind of cam followers are used in many diesel engines and in the OP's engine?
What are the effects of reducing the traction coefficient of oils used in most high speed diesel engines today?
What are the trade-offs a formulator or additive developer makes between the various organo-metallic additives and the non-metallics when developing a formulation?
If you cannot answer those questions you have no business adding MoS2 to your oil, unless you like playing Russian Roulette.
What can get away with in gas engines does not always apply in diesel engines.
Here is some more quotes made recently by that same tribologist that you note:
There is colloidal moly M0S2 which is moly powder suspended in an oil carrier and then there is Moly DTC or Moly DibutylDTC often called, "soluble moly." The latter is the only moly form now used in modern PCMO's and gear lubricants.
"Most lubricant manufacturers have abandoned colloidal moly M0S2, so you don't know what you're getting when you purchase something like Lubromoly. I suspect they are using left over supplies of powdered moly."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1234989&page=2
I'm sure some amounts of colloidal MoS2 are fine IN PROPER FORMULATION. If you don't know the limits of that formulation you have know idea of how much you can add of a friction reducer like MoS2 before you drastically alter a critical operating or pass a parameter limit of that lubricant.
Hi,
jamc - Your Post included this:
STARTS
What happens to the traction coefficient of the oil that you add colloidal Mos2 too?
What kind of cam followers are used in many diesel engines and in the OP's engine?
What are the effects of reducing the traction coefficient of oils used in most high speed diesel engines today?
What are the trade-offs a formulator or additive developer makes between the various organo-metallic additives and the non-metallics when developing a formulation?
ENDS
I can confirm that these are some of the critical factors regarding lubricant selection in some engine families. A number of the points raised resulted in serious durability problems and stemmed from using incorrect viscosities, additive supplements and some synthetic lubricants that did not have engine Manufacturer Approval
jamc - Your Post included this:
STARTS
What happens to the traction coefficient of the oil that you add colloidal Mos2 too?
What kind of cam followers are used in many diesel engines and in the OP's engine?
What are the effects of reducing the traction coefficient of oils used in most high speed diesel engines today?
What are the trade-offs a formulator or additive developer makes between the various organo-metallic additives and the non-metallics when developing a formulation?
ENDS
I can confirm that these are some of the critical factors regarding lubricant selection in some engine families. A number of the points raised resulted in serious durability problems and stemmed from using incorrect viscosities, additive supplements and some synthetic lubricants that did not have engine Manufacturer Approval
Quote:
Schaeffer's and Redline would be ideal, but too expensive. I was thinking of adding moly to a cheaper oil.
How expensive is an engine vs. a quality oil??
Schaeffer's and Redline would be ideal, but too expensive. I was thinking of adding moly to a cheaper oil.
How expensive is an engine vs. a quality oil??
Hi Jake,
Two things to think about.
1.LubroMoly sells an MoS2 enhanced oil that has all the modern specs. I just put it in my VW TDI; so far so good.
I think the manufacturer has a better idea of how to add this stuff than an additive maker.
2. Just look for an oil with moly in it and use that. They have platoons of engineers and boatloads of test engines to figure it out. Why re-invent the wheel?
Two things to think about.
1.LubroMoly sells an MoS2 enhanced oil that has all the modern specs. I just put it in my VW TDI; so far so good.
I think the manufacturer has a better idea of how to add this stuff than an additive maker.
2. Just look for an oil with moly in it and use that. They have platoons of engineers and boatloads of test engines to figure it out. Why re-invent the wheel?
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