Is there a straight answer: Best and Worst oil?
- Thread starter Popinski
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No, because everybody's idea of best and worst is different.
Originally Posted By: Popinski
I've seen so many answers to these questions: Best oil?
Best Conventional?
Best Synthetic?
Worst Conventional?
Worst Synthetic?
Is there a straight answer?
are these considerations such as cost & ease of availability?
I've seen so many answers to these questions: Best oil?
Best Conventional?
Best Synthetic?
Worst Conventional?
Worst Synthetic?
Is there a straight answer?
are these considerations such as cost & ease of availability?
Depends how you use the engine.
Originally Posted By: Popinski
Engine oil's main job is to lube, clean and cool....
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask CAFE, they'll say that it also needs to reduce fuel economy.
And the "lube job" can be achieved by having a very robust add pack, but such an add pack may cause an oil to not be API SM-compliant, or may even cause cat poisoning. So, it may be best for your engine, but not for other car components.
Engine design, operating conditions, and driving patterns also matter. An oil for short trips around town in super cold climate may not be best for extended periods of driving at the track.
Price also comes into the equation, another words what's "best for the money".
Think about it, if there was such a thing as best oil, all other oils would not exist (especially the worst one), as we'd all be buying that one best oil.
Engine oil's main job is to lube, clean and cool....
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask CAFE, they'll say that it also needs to reduce fuel economy.
And the "lube job" can be achieved by having a very robust add pack, but such an add pack may cause an oil to not be API SM-compliant, or may even cause cat poisoning. So, it may be best for your engine, but not for other car components.
Engine design, operating conditions, and driving patterns also matter. An oil for short trips around town in super cold climate may not be best for extended periods of driving at the track.
Price also comes into the equation, another words what's "best for the money".
Think about it, if there was such a thing as best oil, all other oils would not exist (especially the worst one), as we'd all be buying that one best oil.
No such answer.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Popinski
Engine oil's main job is to lube, clean and cool....
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask CAFE, they'll say that it also needs to reduce fuel economy.
And the "lube job" can be achieved by having a very robust add pack, but such an add pack may cause an oil to not be API SM-compliant, or may even cause cat poisoning. So, it may be best for your engine, but not for other car components.
Engine design, operating conditions, and driving patterns also matter. An oil for short trips around town in super cold climate may not be best for extended periods of driving at the track.
Price also comes into the equation, another words what's "best for the money".
Think about it, if there was such a thing as best oil, all other oils would not exist (especially the worst one), as we'd all be buying that one best oil.
^^ This.
To add a few things...
Some engine oils are also used to actuate hydraulic systems in the engine, like Honda's VTEC or BMW's VANOS.
"Lubrication" doesn't always mean the same thing. Some engines need big hydrodynamic films, some need extreme pressure protection, etc. Different alloys might work best with different types of oil. Formulating an oil for one thing might make it worse for another.
And then there's the question of drain intervals. Some modern econo car engines can run for thousands of miles on low-TBN oils, but the same oils wouldn't last 3k in an older sports car's engine. Conversely, the sports car's oil might slowly corrode the copper and aluminum in the econo car engine and do more harm than good.
Then there's the question of viscosity. Some engines need something nice and thick to maintain good films. Put that oil in a smaller, lighter-duty engine and you might get too much drag and too many hotspots.
As has been said, this kind of stuff is why lubrication is a science unti itself.
Originally Posted By: Popinski
Engine oil's main job is to lube, clean and cool....
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask CAFE, they'll say that it also needs to reduce fuel economy.
And the "lube job" can be achieved by having a very robust add pack, but such an add pack may cause an oil to not be API SM-compliant, or may even cause cat poisoning. So, it may be best for your engine, but not for other car components.
Engine design, operating conditions, and driving patterns also matter. An oil for short trips around town in super cold climate may not be best for extended periods of driving at the track.
Price also comes into the equation, another words what's "best for the money".
Think about it, if there was such a thing as best oil, all other oils would not exist (especially the worst one), as we'd all be buying that one best oil.
^^ This.
To add a few things...
Some engine oils are also used to actuate hydraulic systems in the engine, like Honda's VTEC or BMW's VANOS.
"Lubrication" doesn't always mean the same thing. Some engines need big hydrodynamic films, some need extreme pressure protection, etc. Different alloys might work best with different types of oil. Formulating an oil for one thing might make it worse for another.
And then there's the question of drain intervals. Some modern econo car engines can run for thousands of miles on low-TBN oils, but the same oils wouldn't last 3k in an older sports car's engine. Conversely, the sports car's oil might slowly corrode the copper and aluminum in the econo car engine and do more harm than good.
Then there's the question of viscosity. Some engines need something nice and thick to maintain good films. Put that oil in a smaller, lighter-duty engine and you might get too much drag and too many hotspots.
As has been said, this kind of stuff is why lubrication is a science unti itself.
I've been researching this to. What I came up with may be vauge.
This is just my 2 cent oppinion.
The worst synthetic is better than the best convential.
If changed regularly the best conventionals are usualy "good enough"
amsoil and redline are probably the best synthetics and easy to get.
I've always ran mobil or valvoline synthetic. I'm giving amsoil a try.
I did find one thing out recently. ACEA a5/b5 is the top grade in the european market. However the lubricants performace ratings for A3/B3, A4/B4, and A5/B5 are the same. the only difference is the drain interval. So when Edge says that mobil1 and Royal Purple don't meet A5/B5, it means squat to me since I don't do extended drain intervals. I'm betting the GF-4 is probably the same.
This is just my 2 cent oppinion.
The worst synthetic is better than the best convential.
If changed regularly the best conventionals are usualy "good enough"
amsoil and redline are probably the best synthetics and easy to get.
I've always ran mobil or valvoline synthetic. I'm giving amsoil a try.
I did find one thing out recently. ACEA a5/b5 is the top grade in the european market. However the lubricants performace ratings for A3/B3, A4/B4, and A5/B5 are the same. the only difference is the drain interval. So when Edge says that mobil1 and Royal Purple don't meet A5/B5, it means squat to me since I don't do extended drain intervals. I'm betting the GF-4 is probably the same.
Hi,
Pman - It may be best if you re-read the ACEA specifications
Pman - It may be best if you re-read the ACEA specifications
When I was a kid, in the late 60's, early 70's, you could buy reprocessed motor oil in country stores and such. It came in a white can with green writing on it. The brand was 'Lube' if I remember correctly. It was about half the price of the cheapest motor oil at the time. My dad would occasionally buy some to top off an engine or use as bar oil in a chain saw. It was very dark coming out of the can. I would probably rate that as one of the worst.
Originally Posted By: Pman
However the lubricants performace ratings for A3/B3, A4/B4, and A5/B5 are the same. the only difference is the drain interval. So when Edge says that mobil1 and Royal Purple don't meet A5/B5, it means squat to me since I don't do extended drain intervals. I'm betting the GF-4 is probably the same.
For starters:
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RP/PC/index.html
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf
ACEA A3 and A5 are not the same. They're both for extended drain intervals, but A5 is low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear
rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
However the lubricants performace ratings for A3/B3, A4/B4, and A5/B5 are the same. the only difference is the drain interval. So when Edge says that mobil1 and Royal Purple don't meet A5/B5, it means squat to me since I don't do extended drain intervals. I'm betting the GF-4 is probably the same.
For starters:
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RP/PC/index.html
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf
ACEA A3 and A5 are not the same. They're both for extended drain intervals, but A5 is low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear
rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
Well of course there is straight answer.
The best oil is ... ummm ... oh heck, what's the name of that oil comes in the 1 quart plastic container? You know ... the one that says 'oil' right on the container ... with the twist-off cap? Yup, that's right ... that's the one.
The best oil is ... ummm ... oh heck, what's the name of that oil comes in the 1 quart plastic container? You know ... the one that says 'oil' right on the container ... with the twist-off cap? Yup, that's right ... that's the one.
Hi,
Pman - Believe me I am very aware of ACEA's Test Protocols - Amongst other things the sentence "These oils are unsuitable for use in some engines." has much significance
Pman - Believe me I am very aware of ACEA's Test Protocols - Amongst other things the sentence "These oils are unsuitable for use in some engines." has much significance
Last edited:
ERR: DOMAIN
Answer does not exist!
IF there was an answer to your question, everyone on this site would use that oil.
Answer does not exist!
IF there was an answer to your question, everyone on this site would use that oil.
Doug,
Is that for the elasomer seal compatability? I'm assuming that the "5" is for the new cars. Since I don't have a car that calls for any ACEA rated oil I can't check my owners manual.
Still the 3 and 5 state for extended drain intervals. One question I have is why the A/B rating? wouldn't the "C" clasification mean more? The catalyst compatable oils. Or (don't slap me here) is this just a US thing.
I see you are from Austalia. I'd love to visit someday. What is the main clasification you go by there. We have so many on the back of our containers I don't know anymore. I think its mainly the Sx and the G4.
Funny though, didn't Mobil 1 used to advertise 25k between oil changes? I once read an article of a guy who had 100's of thousands of miles on one AMSOIL change just having tests done regularly. I've also known people who have gone nearly 100,000 miles on oiginal fill conventional oil (dumb people who didn't know you were supposed to change oil in the first place) which kinda says to me that almost any oil can (though shouldn't) go for a year at a time. My dads car is on the 1 year/4000 mile change plan.
Is that for the elasomer seal compatability? I'm assuming that the "5" is for the new cars. Since I don't have a car that calls for any ACEA rated oil I can't check my owners manual.
Still the 3 and 5 state for extended drain intervals. One question I have is why the A/B rating? wouldn't the "C" clasification mean more? The catalyst compatable oils. Or (don't slap me here) is this just a US thing.
I see you are from Austalia. I'd love to visit someday. What is the main clasification you go by there. We have so many on the back of our containers I don't know anymore. I think its mainly the Sx and the G4.
Funny though, didn't Mobil 1 used to advertise 25k between oil changes? I once read an article of a guy who had 100's of thousands of miles on one AMSOIL change just having tests done regularly. I've also known people who have gone nearly 100,000 miles on oiginal fill conventional oil (dumb people who didn't know you were supposed to change oil in the first place) which kinda says to me that almost any oil can (though shouldn't) go for a year at a time. My dads car is on the 1 year/4000 mile change plan.
Originally Posted By: Pman
Doug,
Is that for the elasomer seal compatability? I'm assuming that the "5" is for the new cars. Since I don't have a car that calls for any ACEA rated oil I can't check my owners manual.
Still the 3 and 5 state for extended drain intervals. One question I have is why the A/B rating? wouldn't the "C" clasification mean more? The catalyst compatable oils. Or (don't slap me here) is this just a US thing.
I see you are from Austalia. I'd love to visit someday. What is the main clasification you go by there. We have so many on the back of our containers I don't know anymore. I think its mainly the Sx and the G4.
Funny though, didn't Mobil 1 used to advertise 25k between oil changes? I once read an article of a guy who had 100's of thousands of miles on one AMSOIL change just having tests done regularly. I've also known people who have gone nearly 100,000 miles on oiginal fill conventional oil (dumb people who didn't know you were supposed to change oil in the first place) which kinda says to me that almost any oil can (though shouldn't) go for a year at a time. My dads car is on the 1 year/4000 mile change plan.
but how often do they change the filter? and what kind of filter
Doug,
Is that for the elasomer seal compatability? I'm assuming that the "5" is for the new cars. Since I don't have a car that calls for any ACEA rated oil I can't check my owners manual.
Still the 3 and 5 state for extended drain intervals. One question I have is why the A/B rating? wouldn't the "C" clasification mean more? The catalyst compatable oils. Or (don't slap me here) is this just a US thing.
I see you are from Austalia. I'd love to visit someday. What is the main clasification you go by there. We have so many on the back of our containers I don't know anymore. I think its mainly the Sx and the G4.
Funny though, didn't Mobil 1 used to advertise 25k between oil changes? I once read an article of a guy who had 100's of thousands of miles on one AMSOIL change just having tests done regularly. I've also known people who have gone nearly 100,000 miles on oiginal fill conventional oil (dumb people who didn't know you were supposed to change oil in the first place) which kinda says to me that almost any oil can (though shouldn't) go for a year at a time. My dads car is on the 1 year/4000 mile change plan.
but how often do they change the filter? and what kind of filter
Hi,
Pman - It is commonplace for Euro engine makers to select the appropriate ACEA Protocol and use this as the basis for their own Test practices. In the end the engine manufacturer's Approvals "overrule" all else. Some on BITOG do not see it that way
ACEA is an association of vehicle and engine makers. They set the parameters - not the Oil Industry!
ACEA's ratings have a currency (in the past, the introduction year formed part of the nomenclature - such as A3-96) and the more recent classifications are suitable for new or emerging technologies. Others such as A3/B3 ((B4) have had currency since 1996 and are enduring. Some others (eg A2/B2) have been made obsolete since ACEA first introduced its system in 1996. These lubricant are still produced and marketed for older technology engine families
In OZ we primarily use the API system but in recent years ACEA has become progressively more significant
Until the early 1980s the API system was seriously flawed as it did not consult with the engine manufacturers in any meaningful manner. This changed due to a series of blunders - the change was driven by the Manufacturers of Heavy diesel engines
The only way to extend OCIs is to use UOAs to monitor the lubricant's condition
Pman - It is commonplace for Euro engine makers to select the appropriate ACEA Protocol and use this as the basis for their own Test practices. In the end the engine manufacturer's Approvals "overrule" all else. Some on BITOG do not see it that way
ACEA is an association of vehicle and engine makers. They set the parameters - not the Oil Industry!
ACEA's ratings have a currency (in the past, the introduction year formed part of the nomenclature - such as A3-96) and the more recent classifications are suitable for new or emerging technologies. Others such as A3/B3 ((B4) have had currency since 1996 and are enduring. Some others (eg A2/B2) have been made obsolete since ACEA first introduced its system in 1996. These lubricant are still produced and marketed for older technology engine families
In OZ we primarily use the API system but in recent years ACEA has become progressively more significant
Until the early 1980s the API system was seriously flawed as it did not consult with the engine manufacturers in any meaningful manner. This changed due to a series of blunders - the change was driven by the Manufacturers of Heavy diesel engines
The only way to extend OCIs is to use UOAs to monitor the lubricant's condition
why cant everybody get together and make 1 rating for cars.
Thanks Doug for explaining that.
Sangy, The Amsoil test guy changed filters regularly. I don't recall if it was the "extended" or regular maintainence. Probably and Amsoil filter to.
The other ones who went a long time never did. The just bought the car and thought it went until something broke. Girls with their first cars and very old people seem to be the most at fault with this.
Ever do an oil change on a 50K conventional? I've only done one and it was on a heavy truck. 44 qts (i think) on an cummins 855 big cam. [censored] it stinks!!! almost as bad as 250K on a differential fluid change.
Thanks Doug for explaining that.
Sangy, The Amsoil test guy changed filters regularly. I don't recall if it was the "extended" or regular maintainence. Probably and Amsoil filter to.
The other ones who went a long time never did. The just bought the car and thought it went until something broke. Girls with their first cars and very old people seem to be the most at fault with this.
Ever do an oil change on a 50K conventional? I've only done one and it was on a heavy truck. 44 qts (i think) on an cummins 855 big cam. [censored] it stinks!!! almost as bad as 250K on a differential fluid change.
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