Chinese Built Honda Clones - Any good?

[boraticus]

I've recently purchased a small Champion generator powered by a Chinese manufactured Honda 196cc clone engine. Visually, the engine looks very well made. I have run it under a good load for a few hours and it starts first pull and purrs. It's easy on fuel and quiet too. After a few hours, I did the initial oil change. The oil was slightly discoloured but still transparent. While it was hot, I strained the oil through a coffee filter and inspected for glitter out in the sunshine. None to be seen with the naked eye. So far, I'm very much impressed with this engine.

Does anyone out there have experience (good or bad) with these Honda clones?

 

[heavyhitter]

The Chinese have been stepping it up in quality on the clones...(Yamaha and Honda).

I have heard that the metals used in the cyclinders, pistons, rings etc are not as good but who knows. Only time will tell.

 

[af0h]

I have 2 Chinese scooters 1-50cc and 1-150cc - both copies of Honda engines.

One has 1,800 miles on it and the other one has 5,400 miles - and they both run fine. No mechanical problems at all.

Not impressed with the thin plastic panels, but they perform very well.

Although the recommended OCI is 1,000 miles - I change it roughly every 700 miles, since it has no oil filter - just a screen. Rotella T is used since it's quite good oil and readily available.

af0h - Rob

 

[greenaccord02]

People had said that the bearing surface alloys were softer than the spec. for japanese or american made small engines, but I'm not sure that was ever proven to be accurate.

If I could find a cheap OHV knockoff of a honda engine, I'd be all over it. A chinese diesel to power a generator would be nice too.

 

[Trav]

Is this engine a clone or is it labelled Honda?
Honda,Yamaha and others have plants in China,the engines are up to company specs,material quality and go through manufacturer QC.
The clones may or may not be the same quality.

 

[BrianWC]

I bought a DEK generator from a local Ace Hardware in anticipation of the 2008 hurricane season. It was the only generator I could find in a hundred mile radius two days before Ike hit. I never have had to use it in an emergency, though. But it certainly fires right up every time I go and crank it up.

http://www.dek-engine.com/index.htm

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: BrianWC
I bought a DEK generator from a local Ace Hardware in anticipation of the 2008 hurricane season. It was the only generator I could find in a hundred mile radius two days before Ike hit. I never have had to use it in an emergency, though. But it certainly fires right up every time I go and crank it up.

http://www.dek-engine.com/index.htm



Cool....

 

[BrianWC]

It was this one.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2422231

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
While it was hot, I strained the oil through a coffee filter and inspected for glitter out in the sunshine.


I use a fluorescent work light. I have found it to be allot easier to see debris when using it for ilumination then in sun light.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=pr...&lpage=none

 

[eljefino]

Maybe they use ND oil for breakin that may not catch all the glitter? I know it's been said getting a Chinese/ Indian tractor the first thing you want to do is drain everything (the axles etc) and get the factory goop out of there.

OP: Is it an inverter generator? I'm waiting for the price to come down on those...

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Maybe they use ND oil for breakin that may not catch all the glitter? I know it's been said getting a Chinese/ Indian tractor the first thing you want to do is drain everything (the axles etc) and get the factory goop out of there.

OP: Is it an inverter generator? I'm waiting for the price to come down on those...


No. It's not an inverter type. Even the Chinese inverter models are still fairly expensive. My friend has a 2300 watt Boily inverter. Seems like a nice unit. He paid $800.00 CDN delivered to his door. Mine makes more power and cost half the price. However, it doesn't have the auto idle and on demand engine speed as loads are applied as the inverters do.

I read somewhere that the better built Honda clones come from factories that have a license from Honda. They're supposed to be as good as the Chinese built Honda units. From what I've seen so far, the Champion (CPE) engines are pretty good.

By the way, this engine did NOT have any oil in it. I bought oil locally for it's first fill and spill oil change. Not cheap stuff either. I used a good quality dino oil. Of all of the OPE, motorcycle, and ATV engines I've bought new (lots of them), this engine had the least amount of machining residue. Virtually none. That's always a good sign.

 

[SecondMonkey]

I've never had one, but I have been reading a lot about these chinese engines, and I haven't heard any major complaints. I would totally believe the metal alloys used are softer in the cheaper engines, because that's cheaper to produce and most people will probably never notice. I know the go-kart racers who used to use the 5hp flathead Briggs engine (before the EPA killed it

) have been using a lot of the chinese clones and really abuse them without much complaint.

That said, before this chinese invasion most small engines were aluminum bore Briggs and Stratton. The chinese ones usually at least have a steel piston liner.

Honestly, I'm thinking about buying one for $99 when they go on sale at Harbor Freight, to replace the genuine Honda GX engine on my pressure washer. It only has a few hours on it but it's a total POS. Worst engine I've ever used.

 

[boraticus]

From info I've read, the licensed clone engines are pretty much Honda spec. If an assembly line is producing Hondas and clones, it wouldn't be very efficient to change component quality for the less expensive clones. I'd bet that we pay a fairly high premium to display the "Honda" badge even though the engine is built in China.

I also believe that the Chinese clones with the cast iron cylinder liner will probably be more durable than the aluminum bore domestic brands. The clone I have also has ball bearings on the crank and cam shafts. Not bushings. So that's also a good sign.

I was speaking to a hardware store owner today who sells small engines. He said that there are junk clones and excellent clones. Usually the outward appearance will have small details that will indicate how well/poorly they're made. Things like, irregular castings, sloppy sealing, poor paint, loose fasteners etc. are good indicators of bad quality. If it looks like it's well made, it probably is.

Now, despite the fact that this clone engine that I have seems to be a sweet little motor, I have an 11 h.p. Briggs on my Simplicity snow thrower that has really impressed me. It's a Snow Tek with the aluminum bore and I'm pleased with it's performance over the past two winters. It starts easily, runs strong, and doesn't use any oil even when flogged hard. For winter (cold weather/clean conditions) work, I think the aluminum bore will hold up fairly well.

My opinion of Briggs and Stratton has improved considerably since acquiring this machine two years ago. I've read that B&S do partial component assembly in China now. So, even the leading domestic small engine brand has put its good name in the hands of the Chinese to some extent.

 

[yeehaw1960]

Chinese manufacturers had to get better. They couldn't get much worse. Notice that stuff costs a little more now. Some of the ATVs have more than tripled in price since they are being better made. Older stocks of Chinese made pit bikes and such can be found for sale really, really cheap in large lots on the web. I guess Japan had a shoddy reputation at first too. I'll still stick with Briggs, Honda, Subaru, Kawasaki, Kohler etc for now though. Still too many horror stories floating around. With all the cheapy stuff still around, it's like buying a used car after Katrina hit. You have to really look hard at what you buy to avoid getting a lemon.

I always did say though, that I'd buy three Murray riders instead of one John Deere (for same money). Every 12 or 13 years put the old one on the curb and get a new one out. This was, of course, before you could buy the big box store version of a Deere or a Cub Cadet, etc.

 

[boraticus]

This was, of course, before you could buy the big box store version of a Deere or a Cub Cadet, etc.

Those machines are an embarrassment to the JD and Cub names.

Box store JD stands for Junk Deere, CC stand for C r a p Cadet!

 

[yeehaw1960]

My brother in law said "THIS IS A DEERE...A JOHN DEERE...JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHERS." Three years later he bought a $3500 model. Now he says "Ohhhhhhh....THIS is a Deere".

Watching him struggle to go through the snow with the giant snow blower attachment he bought from the big box store on the same day! It was hilarious! "Why this don't work?"

 

[boraticus]

The only thing Deere about the box store models is the paint scheme.

 

[Michael_P]

My kids have a Go-Kart with a Chinese engine with about 500 hours on it now. It has never skipped a beat. My McCulloch Generator with its Jenn Feng (Chinese) Engine has run well for weeks at a time. The internals seem to be top notch when I tore a 6.5HP down for fun. The tack welds on the starter shrouds and other bolt ons seem to be cheaper than a Honda. Many of the clone companies have made engines for the Chinese market under the Honda name. Honda has tried to sue many of them over the years for bringing these clones into the U.S.. The parts are almost always interchangeable between clones to Honda. In parts of Asia, they use these engines to power oil wells in rural areas and will run very long OCI's. Though I don't know how they hold up. My experience is they hold up well.

 

[yeehaw1960]

Like I said, they're improving. Honda got itself in this situation all on their own by selling the slightly out of tolerance castings, etc of certain Honda engines. The XR 100 and 200s and the 5 HP horizontal and 198cc (ish) vertical engines for pre fab mini bikes and cheap mowers. After several years of practice, they're getting pretty good at building quality into their products. Just don't go to a store you bought the stuff from and expect them to supply you with a Honda part to repair a Chonda that's under warranty. In many cases, expect to wait for the next ship to come in. Now if Chinese manufacturers could get the welds right on ATVs, pit bikes and generators, etc, and start using quality plastics and metal for controllers and covers...

 

[JTK]

With reasonable care and HDEO use, these engines will hold up to the rigors of commercial use and hold up well. Like said, prices are going up on them because people are catching on.

Joel