Moly and wet clutches

[kballowe]

I feel sooo left out here.

What am I going to do with THIS one?

13 kevlar clutch plates and they're DRY.

OK if I still just READ this thread?

hehehehehehe.....

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/kballowe/thunder2.jpg?t=1255956461

 

[Howe]

Fact of the matter, molybdenum disulfide can causes problems with wet clutches, however, it is usually high levels of moly, older bikes with high miles, bikes with worn out clutches and bikes with weak springs on their clutches. Some newer bikes, (Honda 1100cc Shadow) had a problem with moly but it may have been related to weak springs from design.

IMO Moly in oils is an energy and therefore an environmental issue. There should be friction reducing molybdenum compounds in all oils as a matter of international common sense. Then the manufacturers would just have to deal with it and make changes or improvements to their products.

There is no reason why any manufacturer cannot isolate the clutch from the engine and transmission and make a dry clutch. With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...and a clutch requires periodic maintenance anyways, in spite of being pampered. The present circumstance is not very logical.

Torco Oil's website could be accessed if information about its oil and moly compounds are desired. However, since Triumph includes Mobil 1 in their motorcycles from the factory, it is likely that is the quality of lubricant that is required to maintain the warranty in full force. Mobil 1 synthetics are definitely near the top of the synthetic lubricant pyramid. Torco is up there too, but not quite as high for street use IMO. Mobil 1 appears to have a broader protection that translates into mechanical longevity than Torco. Torco appears to be a little deficient in its shear performance under high stress and its wear performance in a transmission, which are inter-related.

Hi, I use Schaeffer's Moly EP, 50 ml of it, added to 750 ml Kendall Super D-XA 15W-40 into my moped. When I use kick starter, it brings mild problem. It feels heavier to kick, sometime also too slippery as well. Is it normal or do molybdenum tend to troublesome in wet clutch?

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Is it normal or do molybdenum tend to troublesome in wet clutch?

Mileage not Moly is the objective cause of clutch slippage... Moly will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order...

Noted Motorcycle oils that also employ Moly...

Honda GN4
Suzuki Ecstar
Motul 7100
Asmoil MC
Mobil 4T

If you wish high mileage clutch life then you have to invest is some
good old sweat equity... because at the first sign of slip it doesn't
automatically mean your clutch is tired and worn out or that your
clutch plates are wore too thin because you can Mic them to
determine serviceability and within the factory specifications...

Under scrutiny you'll find that your slip was due to normal
glazing and contaminates...

Deglazing clutch plates ain't nothing new... no sir... back in the 70s
it use to be part of every savvy rider's maintenance plan... and for
some reason that all change during the 90s... why fix what you can buy
new is the what you hear now a days... but if your interested in
making your clutch bite good as new then roll up your sleeves and read
on... i

Inspect the friction plates for glazing... make sure you have plenty
of material to work with... your shop manual states clutch thickness
in thousands of an inch or mm...

First removed the contaminants with Acetone... pick a hard surface to lay
over a 600 grit black dry emery paper... rotate the clutch plate in a
circle... you're just busting the glaze... don't get carried away
remove too much material... You should end up with a friction plate
looks dull like a new one as opposed to a shinny glazed one... recheck
thickness...

Next check the pressure plates for bluing caused by localized heat...
make sure they are not warped... consult the manual for a thickness
range... now removed the contaminants with Acetone and wire wheeled
them to erased the blue and also to generally scuff up the surface...
you should end up with a dull surface free of Blue marks...

 

[Howe]

Mileage not Moly is the objective cause of clutch slippage... Moly will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order...

Noted Motorcycle oils that also employ Moly...

Honda GN4
Suzuki Ecstar
Motul 7100
Asmoil MC
Mobil 4T

If you wish high mileage clutch life then you have to invest is some
good old sweat equity... because at the first sign of slip it doesn't
automatically mean your clutch is tired and worn out or that your
clutch plates are wore too thin because you can Mic them to
determine serviceability and within the factory specifications...

Under scrutiny you'll find that your slip was due to normal
glazing and contaminates...

Deglazing clutch plates ain't nothing new... no sir... back in the 70s
it use to be part of every savvy rider's maintenance plan... and for
some reason that all change during the 90s... why fix what you can buy
new is the what you hear now a days... but if your interested in
making your clutch bite good as new then roll up your sleeves and read
on... i

Inspect the friction plates for glazing... make sure you have plenty
of material to work with... your shop manual states clutch thickness
in thousands of an inch or mm...

First removed the contaminants with Acetone... pick a hard surface to lay
over a 600 grit black dry emery paper... rotate the clutch plate in a
circle... you're just busting the glaze... don't get carried away
remove too much material... You should end up with a friction plate
looks dull like a new one as opposed to a shinny glazed one... recheck
thickness...

Thank you, I think that is the answer, as my moped already went for 44.000 km

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Thank you, I think that is the answer, as my moped already went for 44.000 km

You're welcome...

 

[ZeeOSix]

In 45 years of owning, riding and working on motorcycles, I've never had to deglaze, deblue or replace any clutch plates. If the clutch plates are glazed and the steel plates blued, then there was some serious clutch slippage going on. Clutch plates don't glaze from normal operation, but from slipping itself, which can be caused by various reasons.

 

[Ride_Red]

I've never had to mess with a clutch in my motorcycles. If I did have a problem and I'm cracking that case open, I'm putting new parts in there.
I would measure the old parts and deglaze if they were still in spec and probably save them for emergency spares.

 

[R1jake]

Originally Posted By: heavyhitter

With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...


I think I'll file that statement in the same folder as the Redline heat dissipation theory......

At a near instantaneous rate. Lol

 

[BusyLittleShop]

If the clutch plates are glazed and the steel plates blued, then there was some serious clutch slippage going on. Clutch plates don't glaze from normal operation, but from slipping itself, which can be caused by various reasons.

Mercy Zee... I'm not known for riding in moderation... The RC45 looks aggressive and you feel aggressive riding one...

 

[ZeeOSix]

LoL ... stop slipping that clutch too much, that's what blues and glazes clutch plates. Guys that drag race for instance are typically slipping the clutch like mad off the line, and clutches in that situation take a beating. Anything beside trying to launch a bike off the Christmas tree at the drag strip shouldn't be slipping the clutch that much in everyday riding situations.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

LoL ... stop slipping that clutch too much, that's what blues and glazes clutch plates.

True to its racing intent Mr. Honda's RC45 sports a slipper clutch...

Blueing is evidence that my slipper clutch is working normal... you see true to its racing
intent Mr.Honda's RC45 sports a sprag type back torque limiter slipper clutch to manage
the effects of engine braking as you down shift through the gears entering a corner...
what you feel is limited slip on the way into a corner but it bites 100% under WFO
throttle (Wide Fooking Open) as you exit the corner...

RC45 sprag clutch

 

[02SE]

True to its racing intent Mr. Honda's RC45 sports a slipper clutch...

As do most (all with real sporting intent) sportbikes.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

As do most (all with real sporting intent) sportbikes.

True but the RC45 is a rare and exotic homologated race bike not just a pedestrian sportbike...

 

[02SE]

There's no doubt that 27 years ago, it was the production basis for a much higher state-of-tune race bike.

Just as lots of production sportbikes are today...

 

[Surestick]

There's no doubt that 27 years ago, it was the production basis for a much higher state-of-tune race bike.

Just as lots of production sportbikes are today...

It was built to defeat the Ducati 916 and 998 that enjoyed a displacement advantage afforded to twins over the 4 cylinder bikes by the regulations.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

It was built to defeat the Ducati 916 and 998 that enjoyed a displacement advantage afforded to twins over the 4 cylinder bikes by the regulations.

True... but Ducati didn't race the 916 its was actually a 996... however to your point not only did Ducati enjoy a displacement crutch but also a weight advantage...

RC45 versus Ducati 996