BMW E90 320d (N47 - 177HP) + Castrol Oil

[marios]

Hi all,

I just received my car's UOA from Blackstone Labs. The car is a BMW 3 series, E90 320d with N47 engine and 177HP.

The car is model 4/2008, has 31500KM up so far and the factory oil was changed at the first 2250KM, mainly because the factory uses the old Castrol SLX 0W30 for the engine, while I wanted the new Castrol Edge Series Oil to use.

At the oil change in 2250KM I used Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel 0W30, kept the oil for 28336KM and change it a few days ago with the engine having 30500 KM's in total.

Blackstone Comments: "Universal averages show typical wear for this type of diesel after 9,700 kilometers of oil use. This 0W/30 oil was in use 28,336 km and most wear metals and silicon were high. The high wear is from new parts breaking-in plus the very long oil change. Silicon is from sand-casted parts plus lubes/sealers used at the factory. Soot levels were high due to the long oil run. The oil's TBN was 1.9, showing very little active additive left in the oil. This much metal makes the oil too abrasive for use. Suggest a 15,000 km oil run & check back. Lots of this stuff will wash out."

Waiting from comments from the experts....

 

[Quattro Pete]

The oil's add pack doesn't seem much different from the regular GC/SLX, apart from magnesium which GC/SLX has more of.

Quote:
kept the oil for 28336KM

Was this when the oil change reminder flashed on the dashboard?

Are you planning to keep this car of a while? If so, I'd probably listen to Blackstone's suggestion and shorten the OCI a little. This oil seems beat. Down to almost a 20-weight.

Is Mobil1 ESP 5w-30 popular over there at all?

Thanks for the report, by the way. How do you like the car?

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
....

Quote:
kept the oil for 28336KM

Was this when the oil change reminder flashed on the dashboard?


Yes, the service indicator flashed and the oil was used for 28336KM at that time.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Are you planning to keep this car of a while? If so, I'd probably listen to Blackstone's suggestion and shorten the OCI a little. This oil seems beat. Down to almost a 20-weight.


Yes, I plan to keep the car for more than 10 years, the next oil change - according to my driving habits - will be in 22K-25K KM's, a little less than the 28500KM's of this time....should I shorten the oil change time even more?

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Is Mobil1 ESP 5w-30 popular over there at all?

Not much, most BMW's use Castrol Oil....

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Thanks for the report, by the way. How do you like the car?


Fun to ride, more fun when I visit the gas station with a fuel consumption of 42mpg .....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: marios
the next oil change - according to my driving habits - will be in 22K-25K KM's, a little less than the 28500KM's of this time....should I shorten the oil change time even more?

If it was my car, I would probably keep it down to about 15-16k km. But we tend to be pretty conservative here on BITOG. I know Europe is used to much longer oil change intervals.

If you're mainly doing highway driving, long distances (which it looks like you are), then maybe longer intervals can in fact be achieved.

Still, that Blackstone report makes me cringe, but it's hard to say how much of it is break-in metals and how much is just the long interval. That Castrol oil doesn't look like it can handle this long interval very well. But then again, I'm not sure any other oil can do better. After all, diesels (and turbo at that) can be very tough on oil, no?

 

[m37charlie]

I changed my X5 35d's oil at about 15000km; no analysis. That does seem long enough to me especially with the additive restrictions of C3 oils.

Charlie

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: marios
the next oil change - according to my driving habits - will be in 22K-25K KM's, a little less than the 28500KM's of this time....should I shorten the oil change time even more?

If it was my car, I would probably keep it down to about 15-16k km. But we tend to be pretty conservative here on BITOG. I know Europe is used to much longer oil change intervals.

Hi Pete,

In my previous car, a Nissan Almera 1.5 I used Semi-Synthetic oil and the Nissan's direction was to change the oil every 15K Km's. Isn't it a pity to change a fully synthetic oil, triple as expensive as the Semi-Synthetic one, in the same time?? It's not about the cost, it's kinda strange to me.....and what about the CBS indication? Ignore it? That can't be sooooo wrong when it gives me 25K + KM's for oil use....

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If you're mainly doing highway driving, long distances (which it looks like you are), then maybe longer intervals can in fact be achieved.

I plan to reduce highways, so faster oil intervals will come.....I presume...

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Still, that Blackstone report makes me cringe, but it's hard to say how much of it is break-in metals and how much is just the long interval. That Castrol oil doesn't look like it can handle this long interval very well. But then again, I'm not sure any other oil can do better. After all, diesels (and turbo at that) can be very tough on oil, no?

I'll try another check after 15K Km's and see the results again...

Thanks anyway

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I changed my X5 35d's oil at about 15000km; no analysis. That does seem long enough to me especially with the additive restrictions of C3 oils.

Charlie


Why so fast? Is the warning light on at that time??

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: marios
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I changed my X5 35d's oil at about 15000km; no analysis. That does seem long enough to me especially with the additive restrictions of C3 oils.

Charlie


Why so fast? Is the warning light on at that time??


The car has a urea tank for SCR emissions converter and the warning came on for that at 15000km (1500 km to go before no start), so I took it in and had the dealer change the oil (free oil change/urea filling for 50000 mi in USA); the engine monitoring showed about 1-2000 km to go before oil change. The US/Canada version has EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and perhaps the Euro version doesn't. EGR wears out the oil quicker (soot, acids).
As I said, I think 15000 km is long enough with an ACEA C3 oil and your numbers do support that.

Charlie

 

[marios]

So Charlie the way I see it is that your car could have done another 1-2K Km's before oil change, according to the engine monitor, right?

Well, in Germany - where I am - the said exactly: "BMW developed the CBS system and spent bilions of € for it, trust it and follow it. This is the official answer of us, as BMW dealers."

......

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: marios
Well, in Germany - where I am - the said exactly: "BMW developed the CBS system and spent bilions of € for it, trust it and follow it. This is the official answer of us, as BMW dealers."

......

But you have to consider the reasons behind this. Was it the engineers that had the engine's longetivity in mind? Or was it the marketing/finance/environmentalists that want you to reduce oil usage or want you to buy anther BMW sooner rather than later?

Out here in the US, there have been cases of sludged up BMW engines when they followed the on-board oil monitor, and that was on gasoline engines which are less hard on the oil than diesel engines.

I guess our views depend on our point of reference. I know Europe has been doing extended drains for a long time. But out here in the US, where most oil changes are touting 3000 miles/3 months oil change intervals, some of us get uneasy when we see a 28k km (17-18k mile) interval. Plus, oil here is relatively cheap, so we have no problem changing it sooner rather than later. Not saying we're right. Just trying to give some background information for you.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: marios
So Charlie the way I see it is that your car could have done another 1-2K Km's before oil change, according to the engine monitor, right?

Well, in Germany - where I am - the said exactly: "BMW developed the CBS system and spent bilions of € for it, trust it and follow it. This is the official answer of us, as BMW dealers."

......


Correct; but I had to go to the dealer anyways to get the free urea. Like I said, I think part of the difference might be EGR; does your engine have this? Also, our vehicle sees no autobahn time; the furthest it gets driven between turn-offs is ~25km.

Charlie

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But you have to consider the reasons behind this. Was it the engineers that had the engine's longetivity in mind? Or was it the marketing/finance/environmentalists that want you to reduce oil usage or want you to buy anther BMW sooner rather than later?


You may have a point about this one, on the other hand, would BMW risk a bad name if customers had serious problems with the engines after following the CBS for extended oil drains? Kinda awkward it will be....

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Out here in the US, there have been cases of sludged up BMW engines when they followed the on-board oil monitor, and that was on gasoline engines which are less hard on the oil than diesel engines.


Really? What was the case for BMW in such cases? I mean, did BMW took the whole responsibility and replaced the engines with no cost for the owner? What was the official response of BMW as a company for this kind of serious problems?

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I guess our views depend on our point of reference. I know Europe has been doing extended drains for a long time. But out here in the US, where most oil changes are touting 3000 miles/3 months oil change intervals, some of us get uneasy when we see a 28k km (17-18k mile) interval. Plus, oil here is relatively cheap, so we have no problem changing it sooner rather than later. Not saying we're right. Just trying to give some background information for you.


Well, thanks for the info about the situation in US but things work a bit different here in Germany, a lot different I would say. From the cost of diesel which is 7,57$ per US gallon to the cost of Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel Oil which costs 75$ (in Ebay.de) or 145$ (in BMW Dealers) per 5L bottle.

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Correct; but I had to go to the dealer anyways to get the free urea. Like I said, I think part of the difference might be EGR; does your engine have this? Also, our vehicle sees no autobahn time; the furthest it gets driven between turn-offs is ~25km.

Charlie


I don't know what an EGR is, all I know is that has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) for sure.

As for the Autobahn, yes the car here has a lot of high speed travels, in an average of 90mph and in many cases above 120mph for a long time( the max speed I had with my car was 155mph).

PS: On a talk with a BMW dealer, I heard that US specs BMW's don't have the same differentials or gear boxes with the EU ones, simply because you have very strict speed limits and the cars are never driven really fast! For example, a US specs BMW if driven really fast for a long time in a German Autobahn, the differential will probably brake in pieces because it's not made for that high speed........that was his words mate.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: marios
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Correct; but I had to go to the dealer anyways to get the free urea. Like I said, I think part of the difference might be EGR; does your engine have this? Also, our vehicle sees no autobahn time; the furthest it gets driven between turn-offs is ~25km.

Charlie


I don't know what an EGR is, all I know is that has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) for sure.

As for the Autobahn, yes the car here has a lot of high speed travels, in an average of 90mph and in many cases above 120mph for a long time( the max speed I had with my car was 155mph).

PS: On a talk with a BMW dealer, I heard that US specs BMW's don't have the same differentials or gear boxes with the EU ones, simply because you have very strict speed limits and the cars are never driven really fast! For example, a US specs BMW if driven really fast for a long time in a German Autobahn, the differential will probably brake in pieces because it's not made for that high speed........that was his words mate.


EGR = exhaust gas recirculation, emission control device to lower nitrogen oxides.
PS comment: Totally absolutely unequivocally untrue. US BMWs with same engine and chassis have the same gear ratios as Euro versions; I have owned 4 BMWs over the last 20 years. They tend to be governed at slightly lower top speeds, i.e. our 2001 325xi goes up to 6400 rpm in 1-4 but only 5750 (peak hp) in 5th, so top speed is 126 mph = 203 kph instead of ~140 mph. Not a big deal. Likewise our X5 35d only goes 210 kph (4000 rpm) in 6th instead of 235 kph (4400 rpm), but gear ratios are IDENTICAL. Check BMWs worldwide and US websites. Beware dealers, they frequently utter untruths.
I drove a US spec 1997 540i/6spd on the autobahn at speeds up to 210 kph and the diff did not break apart.

Charlie

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: marios
Really? What was the case for BMW in such cases? I mean, did BMW took the whole responsibility and replaced the engines with no cost for the owner? What was the official response of BMW as a company for this kind of serious problems?

Since it was past the warranty period, I don't think BMW did anything. I believe they did start requiring that the oil be changed at least once a year, regardless of distance driven though. Also, there was a suspicion that the oil used wasn't really up to par. You guys in Europe have better quality oils over there and the mfg specs are strictly adhered to. Here, only recently did dealers start paying serious attention to mfg oil specs. Maybe with the right oil there wouldn't have been any problems. The US gasoline also seems to be inferior and supposedly affecting engine deposits (case in point: all the VW/Audi and BMW direct injection engine deposits lately).


Quote:

Well, thanks for the info about the situation in US but things work a bit different here in Germany, a lot different I would say. From the cost of diesel which is 7,57$ per US gallon to the cost of Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel Oil which costs 75$ (in Ebay.de) or 145$ (in BMW Dealers) per 5L bottle.

I know. I grew up in Europe and I go back at least once a year. That's why I mentioned the US prices/approach, because they vary quite a bit compared to Europe.


Originally Posted By: m37charlie

PS comment: Totally absolutely unequivocally untrue. US BMWs with same engine and chassis have the same gear ratios as Euro versions; I have owned 4 BMWs over the last 20 years. They tend to be governed at slightly lower top speeds, i.e. our 2001 325xi goes up to 6400 rpm in 1-4 but only 5750 (peak hp) in 5th, so top speed is 126 mph = 203 kph instead of ~140 mph. Not a big deal. Likewise our X5 35d only goes 210 kph (4000 rpm) in 6th instead of 235 kph (4400 rpm), but gear ratios are IDENTICAL. Check BMWs worldwide and US websites. Beware dealers, they frequently utter untruths.

Maybe he was referring to just BMW using inferior materials for US-spec'd cars, not necessarily different gearing. I've heard those rumors, too, but I don't buy them. If you look up part numbers for US-spec and Euro-spec vehicles on realoem.com, you'll find them to be the same. I would think that the part numbers would have been different if the parts themselves were somehow different.

Quote:

I drove a US spec 1997 540i/6spd on the autobahn at speeds up to 210 kph and the diff did not break apart.

Yeah, some US owners go for the whole European delivery experience/program. It would be a big disappointment if their cars fell apart on their way from the factory to the port.

 

[artificialist]

Sometimes a good manufacturer replaces an engine after the warranty period at little or no cost to the owner.

They do it because they don't want their name to have a bad reputation for ripping off the customer.

 

[marios]

Hi,

It would really be nice for comparison reasons if there was another users' UOA report for the same engine - or a similar BMW one - and with an extended oil use (28000KM's) like mine......

I've been to a BMW garage today for a repair, asked again about the extended oil change of BMW CBS and if I should trust it; they said again the same thing, why shouldn't I?

 

[addyguy]

I still don't understand people who pay large amounts of money for a high-quality car, and then push an oil change as far as this. If you can afford a BMW, surely you can afford to change the oil a bit more frequently?

The oil survived, and it didn't do too badly, considering.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I still don't understand people who pay large amounts of money for a high-quality car, and then push an oil change as far as this. If you can afford a BMW, surely you can afford to change the oil a bit more frequently?

He's just following the manufacturer's recommendations. It's hard to blame him. For us here, on this side of the pond, such long OCIs seem preposterous, but over there it's business as usual.

 

[marios]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I still don't understand people who pay large amounts of money for a high-quality car, and then push an oil change as far as this. If you can afford a BMW, surely you can afford to change the oil a bit more frequently?

The oil survived, and it didn't do too badly, considering.


It has nothing to do with the money I will spent for an extra oil change mate, believe me I can afford 150$ more annually. The way I see it is that we still have the old mentality for changing engine oil often. These new oil products are tested and approved by BMW, so is the CBS system.

All I want is a convincing reason why not to follow the CBS....if the oil was dead, it would have been shown in my oil analysis, but as you admit it's pretty good. So?? The CBS works great with the specific Castrol Oil...