coconut-based lubricant

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hi everyone.. i came across a rather interesting product being sold by a local cooperative.. they say it's made from coconut oil and they claim upwards of 20% in fuel consumption improvements with just 20% ratio..

i am very intrested to try it but before i do, can you please share your opinions and insights on the technical info they provided:

Flash Point at 256 C
Kinematic viscosity (at 40 C) at 27,37 cSt. based on ASTMD 445
Sulfated ash at 0,01 (% mass) based on ASTMD 874
Sulfur at 0,02 (% mass) based on ASTMD 4294
Copper strip corrosion (at 3 hours and at 50 C) at 1a (as compared to the standard of 3) based on ASTMD 130
Cloud point at 20 C based on ASTMD 2500
Total acid number at 5,04 (mg KOH/g) based on ASTMD 974
Free glycerin at 0,02 (% mass) based on AOCS Ea6-51 and total glycerin at 1,06 (% mass) based on AOCS Ca 14-56
 
A 20 percent improvement in fuel economy, when used at a 20 percent ratio??
At that point you should suspect that dishonesty and fraud are considerably more likely than a mileage improvement. That alone is a good reason not to put anything they sell into your motor.

Still, maybe if you combine coconut oil with some cow magnets on the fuel line, then drive real slow......

When a mileage improvement that huge is found it will be front page news on Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend and everyplace else! Save your money until then!
 
I might use coconut since its is very low in unsaturated fatty acids, but never an inherently unstable material such as canola. Both coconut oil and canola oil are 100% fats.

Canola makes great paint.
 
Originally Posted By: philobeddoe
i use canola, lower fat content, easier on start-up


Doesn't clog your cars arteries either... My last engine had coronary disease from the coconut oil.
lol.gif
 
Before I jump on the balderdash bandwagon, I remember from my younger years working at a movie theater, corporate had used our theater to experiment with different oils for popcorn poppers. Canola, corn and other common cooking oils would start to smoke, cook and leave black deposits in the kettle long before coconut oil would even begin to smoke. Even with the cycling switch on the kettle heater bypassed, coconut oil would never coke up and char. That stuff had amazing heat resistance. The company decided not to go with coconut oil in the popcorn poppers in fear the public would catch on it wasn’t as healthy as other oils. Bottom line; coconut oil can take some major heat. As to its lubricity and wear resistance, I have no idea. From my cooking experience, coconut oil does seem to feel slicker than other cooking oils when applying pressure between your thumb and index finger and sliding. I will say while it has potential, I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig unless I was given an unlimited supply of replacement engines.

BTW: Olive oil cooks the fastest. I couldn’t ever see them using that as motor oil.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my group III synthetics.

Heck! They could hydrogenate the stuff (coconut oil), slap some EP’s in there and call it grease.


Just look at the numbers jeffman632 posted. They look good.
 
I may be totally wrong but I think I remember reading that one of the three 'fluids' which comprised 'Tri-Synthetic' Mobil 1 was coconut derived.
 
I found it. This is a quote from a post made in 2004..."The Tri-Syn was a PAO, AN, and cocamide ester mix,"

This is the definition of cocamide from wikipedia...

Cocamide is a mixture of amides of the fatty acids obtained from coconut oil. As coconut oil contains about 50% of lauric acid, in formulas only the 12-carbon chains tend to be considered. Therefore the formula of cocamide can be written as CH3(CH2)10CONH2, though the number of carbon atoms in the chains varies (it is always even).

Cocamide is the structural basis of many surfactants. Common are ethanolamines (cocamide MEA, cocamide DEA), or betaine compounds (cocamidopropyl betaine).
 
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
Before I jump on the balderdash bandwagon, I remember from my younger years working at a movie theater, corporate had used our theater to experiment with different oils for popcorn poppers. Canola, corn and other common cooking oils would start to smoke, cook and leave black deposits in the kettle long before coconut oil would even begin to smoke. Even with the cycling switch on the kettle heater bypassed, coconut oil would never coke up and char. That stuff had amazing heat resistance. The company decided not to go with coconut oil in the popcorn poppers in fear the public would catch on it wasn’t as healthy as other oils. Bottom line; coconut oil can take some major heat. As to its lubricity and wear resistance, I have no idea. From my cooking experience, coconut oil does seem to feel slicker than other cooking oils when applying pressure between your thumb and index finger and sliding. I will say while it has potential, I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig unless I was given an unlimited supply of replacement engines.

BTW: Olive oil cooks the fastest. I couldn’t ever see them using that as motor oil.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my group III synthetics.

Heck! They could hydrogenate the stuff (coconut oil), slap some EP’s in there and call it grease.


Just look at the numbers jeffman632 posted. They look good.


+1 Canola and most other vegetable fats and fish oils are unsaturated. They have the same unstable double bonds as the olefins they refine out of dino. Heated in the presence of oxygen, they oxidize and polymerize. It also happens slowly at room temperature. It is catalyzed by metals. Lead used to be widely used. Check your UOA metal content.
 
Originally Posted By: jeffman632
hi everyone.. i came across a rather interesting product being sold by a local cooperative.. they say it's made from coconut oil and they claim upwards of 20% in fuel consumption improvements with just 20% ratio..

i am very intrested to try it but before i do, can you please share your opinions and insights on the technical info they provided:

Flash Point at 256 C
Kinematic viscosity (at 40 C) at 27,37 cSt. based on ASTMD 445
Sulfated ash at 0,01 (% mass) based on ASTMD 874
Sulfur at 0,02 (% mass) based on ASTMD 4294
Copper strip corrosion (at 3 hours and at 50 C) at 1a (as compared to the standard of 3) based on ASTMD 130
Cloud point at 20 C based on ASTMD 2500
Total acid number at 5,04 (mg KOH/g) based on ASTMD 974
Free glycerin at 0,02 (% mass) based on AOCS Ea6-51 and total glycerin at 1,06 (% mass) based on AOCS Ca 14-56


What is the name of this product?
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Motul's 300V contains (or contained) esters derived from coconut oil!


Just FYI, the most common ester used in synthetic motor oils is TMP C8C10, usually in combination with PAO for additive solubility, seal swell, and lubricity. The "C8C10" portion of the ester refers to a mixture of nC8 and nC10 fatty acids, which are derived from coconut oil. This acid mix is then reacted with TMP (trimethylolpropane) to give the synthetic polyol ester.

Coconut oil is itself a natural ester, but not used in motor oils due to its high freeze point and unsaturated acids. When a company says their esters are "derived" from coconut oil, they are most likely referring to synthetic esters made with C8C10 acids.

Tom NJ
 
Hi,
Tom NJ - Thanks so much for your input on the other Thread concerning "esters"

You are very aware that this is a complex topic considering the potential combinations. Delvac 1 used/uses O,O-DI-CI-14 - Alkyl Esters for instance.

Your input is important as I was endeavouring to "simplify" a complex subject
 
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Motul's 300V contains (or contained) esters derived from coconut oil!


Just FYI, the most common ester used in synthetic motor oils is TMP C8C10, usually in combination with PAO for additive solubility, seal swell, and lubricity. The "C8C10" portion of the ester refers to a mixture of nC8 and nC10 fatty acids, which are derived from coconut oil. This acid mix is then reacted with TMP (trimethylolpropane) to give the synthetic polyol ester.

Coconut oil is itself a natural ester, but not used in motor oils due to its high freeze point and unsaturated acids. When a company says their esters are "derived" from coconut oil, they are most likely referring to synthetic esters made with C8C10 acids.

Tom NJ


Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tom NJ - Thanks so much for your input on the other Thread concerning "esters"

You are very aware that this is a complex topic considering the potential combinations. Delvac 1 used/uses O,O-DI-CI-14 - Alkyl Esters for instance.

Your input is important as I was endeavouring to "simplify" a complex subject


I love it when the two of you post. There should be a special Tom and Doug thread where only the two of you can post.
19.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Motul's 300V contains (or contained) esters derived from coconut oil!


Just FYI, the most common ester used in synthetic motor oils is TMP C8C10, usually in combination with PAO for additive solubility, seal swell, and lubricity. The "C8C10" portion of the ester refers to a mixture of nC8 and nC10 fatty acids, which are derived from coconut oil. This acid mix is then reacted with TMP (trimethylolpropane) to give the synthetic polyol ester.

Coconut oil is itself a natural ester, but not used in motor oils due to its high freeze point and unsaturated acids. When a company says their esters are "derived" from coconut oil, they are most likely referring to synthetic esters made with C8C10 acids.

Tom NJ


Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tom NJ - Thanks so much for your input on the other Thread concerning "esters"

You are very aware that this is a complex topic considering the potential combinations. Delvac 1 used/uses O,O-DI-CI-14 - Alkyl Esters for instance.

Your input is important as I was endeavouring to "simplify" a complex subject


I love it when the two of you post. There should be a special Tom and Doug thread where only the two of you can post.
19.gif



I agree
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
You are very aware that this is a complex topic considering the potential combinations. Delvac 1 used/uses O,O-DI-CI-14 - Alkyl Esters for instance.

I think that refers to alkyl-type ZDDP, which is an ester.
 
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