royal vs red

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How do the syn varietys of royal purple and redline ( not race oil ) compare to zinc levels and performace for protecting a high performace flat tappet engine.
 
If you are really into Zn/P levels just buy a bottle of ZDDPlus and a syringe and put 30ml in 5 qt of oil; Zn will go up 450ppm, P will go up 300ppm. By no means use the entire bottle on 5qts.

Charlie
 
Yeah, an aftermarket additive is all he needs to screw up an already blended motor oil
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yeah i'm not sure I want to go the additive route, I'm not sure the verdict is in on that topic yet.

When I did a search on the two oils i mentioned i get different results, I was wondering if maybe I missed something and someone knew more on the subject to help me.
 
I don't think people should do additives either, but if they do one chemical compound family is preferable to a mishmash. SAE article 2004-01-2986 "How much ZDP is Enough?" written by 2 GM powertrain engineers is interesting. Their conclusion: 800ppm for most engines, a bit more for break-in of flat tappet engines. As little as 500ppm may be safe, they say.

Charlie
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
..... As little as 500ppm may be safe, they say.

Charlie


"may be safe"????? I don't want to deal with may be. I want the sure thing on my $50K vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I don't think people should do additives either, but if they do one chemical compound family is preferable to a mishmash. SAE article 2004-01-2986 "How much ZDP is Enough?" written by 2 GM powertrain engineers is interesting. Their conclusion: 800ppm for most engines, a bit more for break-in of flat tappet engines. As little as 500ppm may be safe, they say.

Charlie
I did not read the article but what was basis of the conclusion for zinc/phos levels? was the article referring to a passenger car engine or a 7,500 rpm big block Chev?
 
They were referring to modern engines with roller cams, both new and broken-in; and vintage engines that are broken-in. All I can say in summary that if one has a a newly rebuilt (or crate) flat tappet engine, particularly high perf., high rpm, with high valve spring pressures, I would look to make break-in oil have at least 1200 ppm P, maybe higher (but NOT higher than 1800-2000!!), with either a pure ZDP additive or a high ZDP oil, and running oil at least 1000 ppm P.
They mentioned that P levels may drop in the future down to 500 or even lower. The Euro 4/5 ACEA E6 diesel truck oils have an upper limit of 800 ppm P.
Other SAE articles I have downloaded point out that ZDP has antiwear effects in locations other than the tappets: rings, rocker arms among others.
The factual basis for their conclusions were other people's studies with oils of varying ZDP content on camshafts and tappets, complete with pictures of destroyed cam lobes and solid lifters. It was a "meta-study", a compilation of others' primary studies.

Charlie
 
See thats part of the problem, there are experts who are not talking about our old school high perf engines, I don't doubht for a new roller engine low levels of zinc are fine but not a high perf engine flat tappet engine.
 
Originally Posted By: built
How do the syn varietys of royal purple and redline ( not race oil ) compare to zinc levels and performace for protecting a high performace flat tappet engine.


First question, do you have a gasoline or diesel engine? This is in the diesel section.

In answer to your original question, I would think Red Line would have the better numbers.
 
There are numbers posted in the mega-analysis in first "sticky" thread in the VOA forum, including RL/RP. RL has very good Zn/P numbers. Incidentally, P is a more accurate measure of ZDDP content than Zn because some Zn is in the form of ZnO2 which is left over from ZDDP manufacture. The only effect of the residual ZnO2 to raise TBN a bit.

Charlie
 
Royal Purple is not int he same league as Redline. First RP's normal synthetics are not all GIV and higher they are a cornacopia or base stocks! Second RP use's much lower levels of additives. Third I have yet to see a non-race formula of RP that impressed me! In fact their oils shear back a lot even their 5W30 shears badly.

Redline is very high in ester content and does not use anything other then POE and PAO synthetics their is no GII= or G-III base stock in their products. Second Redline use's the highest levels of additive I have ever seen.Third Redline almost never shears in their traditional base stocks like 5W30,10W30,15W40 etc......I amnot sure if their 0W40 or 5W40 shear but I doubt it.

You might as well be comparing elphants to puppies they are so different!
 
Wow thanks John, now that sounds great.
I was leaning towards redline but royal purple has a lot more advertisement and a big following and not so much with redline.
But it sounds like you KNOW what youre talking about.
I'm sold.
 
Oh I will say this RoyalPurples Race formula's seem to do well but they cost so much for what you get that I think RL is a better buy. Just make sure you run RL for 3 oil changes before you do a UOA. Redline has some insane cleaning action and the first two oil changes with it you get all kinds of cleaning that will look like wear but it not. Usualy the third oil change is safe to test if you want to see how the oil is doing. Usualy the longer you use it the lower the wear metals get.
 
cannot comment on Zn and P levels...but can assure you that Royal purple a good oil, having said that it is utter injustice to compare Red Line with RP.... Red Line is at par with Motul and oils such as Shell Helix Ultra Extra (not available in North America TTBOMK)
 
Lucas also has a ridiculous amount of advertising and i wouldnt run the stuff in my lawn mower. Redline is huge in the racing circles although they are still a smaller US based blender. I am willing to bet there are more teams running Redine than Royal Purple. Some may even have RP plastered all over the car, yet the engine is filled with RL.

Redline has a fantastic reputation for making some of the best oils money can buy. They don't cut corners and use POE. Motul is one of the only other oil companies that compares to RL. They too lubricate many a race engine all over the world. I have used Redline for over 15 years in many different cars. One is a 1,000 hp turbo LT-1. This oil is up to the task and then some!
 
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I would second the notion that Red is in a class above RP.

A local engine builder bragged to me about RP and how he got more hp on the dyno! Why? He was using straight 10 weight.

RP is all about hype. Plus it's a cool color.We all know that purple is cooler.
 
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