Even though I've used M1 oils for 31 years, don't you idi---, I mean guys use it. It will clog up your valve train and cause noise and produce rod knocks. I have to scrape out the sludge every year and that's with 3000 mile OCIs. 50,000 miles is the longest I've gone before an overhaul is required. Boy I'm glad I finally got that off my mind!
is Mobil 1 a group 4, true synthetic?
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I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS!
Waiting for Art_Vandelay to jump on this one.
WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS!
Waiting for Art_Vandelay to jump on this one.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
See my above testimonial above.
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
See my above testimonial above.
Hard to say unless we take up a collection like we did with German Castrol and have it tested and then have Terry and the other offical Tribologists and Chemist take a look at the results! Short of that we are all just guessing. For M1 being junk they sure do get a lot of OEM and Racing Endorsements! Funny how Honda could have chosen anyone for their Turbo oil requirement yet they ended up only recommending Mobil-1? Same thing for Corvette and many other high end engines!!! Notice I am not saying M-1 is as good today as it was in years past but I do not think it is junk though. In fact I think it is still better then it's competition on the shelf at major retail stores. It also seems to come out in pretty good shape when Amsoil does it's test's and put's the results up! In fact last I checked M-1 always comes out as being second only to Amsoil over all.
For the most part until you get into ester's PAO is only slightly cleaner then group II+ and group III base stock oils. You have to keep in mind that it was not that long ago that dino oils had no or very little G-II or G-II+ in them. So the diffrence between dino and a 100% PAO product was huge. Once G-II+ and G-III's came into the market the difference in cleanliness was very very close. The big thing was that synthetics had additive packages that could easily go 25K miles. M-1 was advertised at first as being a 25K mile oil back when it was only available in 5W20this is going back to my Dad's generation. Ester's on the other hand still have a huge huge gap in how much cleaner they can keep an engine and all of it's parts. As for the actual performance of the oil in normal driving a G-III can today perform just as well as an all PAO product if they have identical additive packages. The problem is that for the most part anyone going to use a G-III to meet a price point is not going to use more additives then the product needs because they are trying to keep cost down and profits high.
Now if you where to talk about hard core racing and simalar abuse say mining operations, jet aviation, space craft etc... then you would be able to see the difference in product base stocks and their additive packages very clearly. The old frying pan test works well still. If you did an all ester product like NEO then did a combo product like PP you would easily be able to see the difference in what is left inthe frying pan and how easy it is to remove which one had the better base stocks and additives.
As far as not hearing from EM on the higher Iron trend I do not see it as a big deal. We are talking a few digits increased nothing major. In fact I have not even seen this higher iron trend in my vehicles so I do not see the concern. I could see if we where talking about someones iron going from 7ppm to 100ppm or something major but in most case we are talking about a 10ppm change or less which is not a cause for alarm.
For the most part until you get into ester's PAO is only slightly cleaner then group II+ and group III base stock oils. You have to keep in mind that it was not that long ago that dino oils had no or very little G-II or G-II+ in them. So the diffrence between dino and a 100% PAO product was huge. Once G-II+ and G-III's came into the market the difference in cleanliness was very very close. The big thing was that synthetics had additive packages that could easily go 25K miles. M-1 was advertised at first as being a 25K mile oil back when it was only available in 5W20this is going back to my Dad's generation. Ester's on the other hand still have a huge huge gap in how much cleaner they can keep an engine and all of it's parts. As for the actual performance of the oil in normal driving a G-III can today perform just as well as an all PAO product if they have identical additive packages. The problem is that for the most part anyone going to use a G-III to meet a price point is not going to use more additives then the product needs because they are trying to keep cost down and profits high.
Now if you where to talk about hard core racing and simalar abuse say mining operations, jet aviation, space craft etc... then you would be able to see the difference in product base stocks and their additive packages very clearly. The old frying pan test works well still. If you did an all ester product like NEO then did a combo product like PP you would easily be able to see the difference in what is left inthe frying pan and how easy it is to remove which one had the better base stocks and additives.
As far as not hearing from EM on the higher Iron trend I do not see it as a big deal. We are talking a few digits increased nothing major. In fact I have not even seen this higher iron trend in my vehicles so I do not see the concern. I could see if we where talking about someones iron going from 7ppm to 100ppm or something major but in most case we are talking about a 10ppm change or less which is not a cause for alarm.
Tig1, I wasn't aiming the post at you... It was for the naysayers that are wrapped up in Basestocks being the determining factor for performance. Sorry I hate that BITOG automatically replies to the last poster.
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
The anxiety is not over content. It's over costs. As was said, if some M1's are merely well marketed PP's ...why pay the premium?
It's like a polished version of the orange can of doom ..but on a loftier level.
AM I GETTING WHAT I PAY FOR?
You can usually spot the higher content by the price. XOM being tight lipped about it is a "pocket veto" in terms of confirmation that they found cheaper base stocks didn't effect their market share ..and continued to use them.
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
The anxiety is not over content. It's over costs. As was said, if some M1's are merely well marketed PP's ...why pay the premium?
It's like a polished version of the orange can of doom ..but on a loftier level.
AM I GETTING WHAT I PAY FOR?
You can usually spot the higher content by the price. XOM being tight lipped about it is a "pocket veto" in terms of confirmation that they found cheaper base stocks didn't effect their market share ..and continued to use them.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Tig1, I wasn't aiming the post at you... It was for the naysayers that are wrapped up in Basestocks being the determining factor for performance. Sorry I hate that BITOG automatically replies to the last poster.
StevieC,
I was agreeing about the possitive results of using M1. I'm just joking around and jumping on the comical bandwagon of M1 bashing.
Tig1, I wasn't aiming the post at you... It was for the naysayers that are wrapped up in Basestocks being the determining factor for performance. Sorry I hate that BITOG automatically replies to the last poster.
StevieC,
I was agreeing about the possitive results of using M1. I'm just joking around and jumping on the comical bandwagon of M1 bashing.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Even though I've used M1 oils for 31 years, don't you idi---, I mean guys use it. It will clog up your valve train and cause noise and produce rod knocks. I have to scrape out the sludge every year and that's with 3000 mile OCIs. 50,000 miles is the longest I've gone before an overhaul is required. Boy I'm glad I finally got that off my mind!
Just because it was great for 31 years does not mean it'll be great next year. Dont be so naive....
Even though I've used M1 oils for 31 years, don't you idi---, I mean guys use it. It will clog up your valve train and cause noise and produce rod knocks. I have to scrape out the sludge every year and that's with 3000 mile OCIs. 50,000 miles is the longest I've gone before an overhaul is required. Boy I'm glad I finally got that off my mind!
Just because it was great for 31 years does not mean it'll be great next year. Dont be so naive....
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
I could care less if Amsoil started using Group-I basestocks with their additive packages so long as I got the performance I was looking for for the price they were charging.
Same goes for M1, even if it was most GRP-III with a bit of PAO (Not sugguesting it is), who cares if they charge a premium for it so long as the engine lasts a very very long time.
I was pointing out that the people that are convinced that paying for an oil that has mostly PAO or GRP-V basestocks in it because they think that they are getting premium performance because of this need to look harder at the formulations. That's all.
Same goes for M1, even if it was most GRP-III with a bit of PAO (Not sugguesting it is), who cares if they charge a premium for it so long as the engine lasts a very very long time.
I was pointing out that the people that are convinced that paying for an oil that has mostly PAO or GRP-V basestocks in it because they think that they are getting premium performance because of this need to look harder at the formulations. That's all.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Tig1, I wasn't aiming the post at you... It was for the naysayers that are wrapped up in Basestocks being the determining factor for performance. Sorry I hate that BITOG automatically replies to the last poster.
StevieC,
I was agreeing about the possitive results of using M1. I'm just joking around and jumping on the comical bandwagon of M1 bashing.
Just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was picking at you...
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Tig1, I wasn't aiming the post at you... It was for the naysayers that are wrapped up in Basestocks being the determining factor for performance. Sorry I hate that BITOG automatically replies to the last poster.
StevieC,
I was agreeing about the possitive results of using M1. I'm just joking around and jumping on the comical bandwagon of M1 bashing.
Just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was picking at you...
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
The anxiety is not over content. It's over costs. As was said, if some M1's are merely well marketed PP's ...why pay the premium?
It's like a polished version of the orange can of doom ..but on a loftier level.
AM I GETTING WHAT I PAY FOR?
You can usually spot the higher content by the price. XOM being tight lipped about it is a "pocket veto" in terms of confirmation that they found cheaper base stocks didn't effect their market share ..and continued to use them.
Exactly!
And I dont think you are getting what you pay for. In my local Walmart, PP is almost a buck less/qt, and $2 less for a 5qt, when in reality, it appears to perform better than Mobil. Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
The anxiety is not over content. It's over costs. As was said, if some M1's are merely well marketed PP's ...why pay the premium?
It's like a polished version of the orange can of doom ..but on a loftier level.
AM I GETTING WHAT I PAY FOR?
You can usually spot the higher content by the price. XOM being tight lipped about it is a "pocket veto" in terms of confirmation that they found cheaper base stocks didn't effect their market share ..and continued to use them.
Exactly!
And I dont think you are getting what you pay for. In my local Walmart, PP is almost a buck less/qt, and $2 less for a 5qt, when in reality, it appears to perform better than Mobil. Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
Originally Posted By: 7777
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
So because you feel the engine is "smoother" and "revs more freely" this equates to better protection? This is what you judge an oil by and not by how long it keeps your engine running in tip-top condition without mechanical repairs inside?
That's great that Redline does that for you but it doesn't mean it is protecting your engine any better than M1.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
So because you feel the engine is "smoother" and "revs more freely" this equates to better protection? This is what you judge an oil by and not by how long it keeps your engine running in tip-top condition without mechanical repairs inside?
That's great that Redline does that for you but it doesn't mean it is protecting your engine any better than M1.
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
...
I dont think you are getting what you pay for. ... Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
For the record I agree. I think they charge too much for their product and this is one of the things that made me change to Amsoil because they narrowed the margin between them and Amsoil. With Amsoils formulation I get better wear protection it looks like from their additives and formulations as far as I can tell so for a few bucks extra I don't use M1. If they lowered their price to just below Pennzoil Platinum I would switch back for sure.
...
I dont think you are getting what you pay for. ... Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
For the record I agree. I think they charge too much for their product and this is one of the things that made me change to Amsoil because they narrowed the margin between them and Amsoil. With Amsoils formulation I get better wear protection it looks like from their additives and formulations as far as I can tell so for a few bucks extra I don't use M1. If they lowered their price to just below Pennzoil Platinum I would switch back for sure.
I dont think it's [censored], and I think Castrol/Mobil/Pennzoil all equal a long engine life, but if we are gonna use CHEAPER components, drop the price.
Thats all Im sayin, and why Im curious as to what Group it is.
Thats all Im sayin, and why Im curious as to what Group it is.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: 7777
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
So because you feel the engine is "smoother" and "revs more freely" this equates to better protection? This is what you judge an oil by and not by how long it keeps your engine running in tip-top condition without mechanical repairs inside?
That's great that Redline does that for you but it doesn't mean it is protecting your engine any better than M1.
No, thats just for starters!!!
Originally Posted By: 7777
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I will repeat again as I have said in other threads... WHO CARES WHAT BASE STOCK AN OIL FORMULATOR USES, IT IS REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE THAT COUNTS! ... M1 seems to have countless testimonials and proof of this!
I used M1 ep in the past, then switched to red line and the difference for me is night and day,the engine is noticeably much smoother,revs up quicker and much quieter.
Now thats real world performance in my book. M1 is a good oil ,but no way near the quality of Redline.
Redline is in a league by itself,period!!
So because you feel the engine is "smoother" and "revs more freely" this equates to better protection? This is what you judge an oil by and not by how long it keeps your engine running in tip-top condition without mechanical repairs inside?
That's great that Redline does that for you but it doesn't mean it is protecting your engine any better than M1.
No, thats just for starters!!!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
...
I dont think you are getting what you pay for. ... Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
For the record I agree. I think they charge too much for their product and this is one of the things that made me change to Amsoil because they narrowed the margin between them and Amsoil. With Amsoils formulation I get better wear protection it looks like from their additives and formulations as far as I can tell so for a few bucks extra I don't use M1. If they lowered their price to just below Pennzoil Platinum I would switch back for sure.
Terry just put up some good info on EDGE.
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
...
I dont think you are getting what you pay for. ... Who cares if Mobil is GIII, but drop the [censored] price.
For the record I agree. I think they charge too much for their product and this is one of the things that made me change to Amsoil because they narrowed the margin between them and Amsoil. With Amsoils formulation I get better wear protection it looks like from their additives and formulations as far as I can tell so for a few bucks extra I don't use M1. If they lowered their price to just below Pennzoil Platinum I would switch back for sure.
Terry just put up some good info on EDGE.
Originally Posted By: 7777
Use Redline, no speculation here,Its a group 5 and its the real deal and costs 1 dollar more! Its a no brainer!!
This is what i use..
Alright, so because Red Line's marketing says stuff like this "Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks", this means they are 100% group 5?
There's a rather large percentage of PAOs in there along with the PE.
Use Redline, no speculation here,Its a group 5 and its the real deal and costs 1 dollar more! Its a no brainer!!
This is what i use..
Alright, so because Red Line's marketing says stuff like this "Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks", this means they are 100% group 5?
There's a rather large percentage of PAOs in there along with the PE.
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: 7777
Use Redline, no speculation here,Its a group 5 and its the real deal and costs 1 dollar more! Its a no brainer!!
This is what i use..
Alright, so because Red Line's marketing says stuff like this "Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks", this means they are 100% group 5?
There's a rather large percentage of PAOs in there along with the PE.
My opinion ,Redline's the best so far
. M1 is group 3 hype thats not worth more than 4.50 Quart,the other 3 bucks is the hype part..
Originally Posted By: 7777
Use Redline, no speculation here,Its a group 5 and its the real deal and costs 1 dollar more! Its a no brainer!!
This is what i use..
Alright, so because Red Line's marketing says stuff like this "Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks", this means they are 100% group 5?
There's a rather large percentage of PAOs in there along with the PE.
My opinion ,Redline's the best so far
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