is Mobil 1 a group 4, true synthetic?

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Anyone's guess. Mobil 1 0w40, 0w30, 0w20, 5w-40 TDT are all probably Group IV/V blends. Formulations change a lot so others could be now as well. Some may also contain some Group III+. I did notice Mobil 1 5w20 has recently been reformulated.
 
Why are you so concerned about the % of Grp III vs Grp IV basestocks anyway? That's just a small part of the overall picture.

Like everybody else said, nobody knows. It's all speculation.
 
Why are you so concerned with my question?

Its not the first time I've seen that claim, so I'd like to know if its fully speculation or if there is something to back it up.

For the price, basestock matters to me. If its glorified PP, why even buy it over PP.
 
Why are you certain that it matters? Are you 100% positive that a Grp IV blend Mobil 1 will do better than a Grp III syn like PP or Synpower? Or is it all about value for your dollar? Not trying to be an a#%, but SO many people get caught up in the Grp III/IV thing and it is such a trivial detail regarding an oil's performance...

Again, it is ALL speculation. Nobody really knows for sure. But BITOG is REALLY good as speculation
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Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I understand your point, but don't you think that the higher end engine manufacturers like Porsche, Mercedes etc. would all be breathing down XOM throat if the formula had been weakend in the name of profitability?

Also I don't think that XOM would weaken the formula if they knew they had a winning combination that was driving consumers to use their products.

It's pretty impressive to have a long list of manufacturers that use your product as a factory fill and to have people driving a million miles on your product with the original engine.

Sure oils were different 10 years ago, but since then they have tweaked the formula and picked up more manufacturers that are using them as factory fill.
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True, but I dont necessarily chalk up quality to factory fill, and that applies to the Toyo branded Mobil oil.

If you look at the current market, the UOA results, and prices of oils, Mobil is just not the value it used to be.

Lets face it, you could run any brand name oil, with an OEM filter and 5k OCI's and NEVER have a problem. If that's all we were worried about, then we would not be here :)

Im gonna give Amsoil 5w-20 a shot for awhile.


Have you read Doug Hillary's article on UOA's that is linked to from the BITOG front-page? It was an article of the month a while back.

It is a very good read and will give you an idea of the "value" of UOA's and what they should and should not be used for.

One of the things they should not be used for is comparing the "protection" of one brand of oil against another.

They are also not a good indicator of how much "wear" is going on in an engine, which can only TRULY be gauge via tear-down testing (which Doug has done plenty of).

He is in a unique position here, as he has done fleet testing FOR various oil companies over the years, doing tear-down testing AND UOA's, covering 10's of millions of Km.

A UOA can provide an indication of a potential issue that one can track, and then investigate. They are excellent for detecting coolant leaks and monitoring oil life, fuel contamination.....etc. But comparing single-digit differences in PPM based on UOA's, which could have the same variance just by running the same sample at the same lab twice is truly an exercise in futility.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I think there is a good chance M1 will be mostly PAO/V going forward, if it's not already. It's possible the Katrina disruption impacted their move to some Grp III along with price. Their oils still contain significant amounts of PAO, more than any other oil readily available. Some are all Grp IV/V based, others are blends.
I'm pretty sure that Amsoil has more PAO that Mobil-1 Just look at their cold pour point comparison. The SSO 0w30 is -60oF
 
Here's the best way (for me, anyway) to know (to my own satisfaction) whether or not Mobil-1 is mostly Group IV:
The Mobil-Korea MSDS shows whether the product has PAO in it or not, and in what percent range. IF the viscosity of Mobil-1 you are interested in is also produced in Korea, see if the product code number is the same in Korea as in the U.S. If it is, look at the SAS #'s on the Korea site, then look up on other websites to determine what the CAS# represents.
For instance, Mobil-1 (Korea) has the same product # as Mobil-1 (U.S.A.) in 0W-30, and the CAS# (Korea) clearly indicates, after some research on the web, that it is PAO a high majority Group IV product. According to the China, I think, Mobil MSDS, there is a 10% mineral oil inclusion, which I assume to be carrier base.
I use Mobil-1 or Delvac-1 oil in 8 different engines in different viscosities: 0W-30, 5W-40, 15W-40 & 10W-40. The only one I've bothered to research is the 0W-40. The Korea Mobil website does not show MSDS sheets in all my chosen viscosities.
My research is likely worthless to others on BITOG, but it means something to me; that the 0W-30 Mobil-1 is Group IV.
I like Mobil-1. I use it, but I also use a Mystik grease, 2 Amsoil gear oil products, Redline MT-6, LawnBoy 2-cycle oil, and Toyota T-IV.
Maybe this rambling post will help someone, a bit, in answering the posted question concerning IV in Mobil-1.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: buster
I think there is a good chance M1 will be mostly PAO/V going forward, if it's not already. It's possible the Katrina disruption impacted their move to some Grp III along with price. Their oils still contain significant amounts of PAO, more than any other oil readily available. Some are all Grp IV/V based, others are blends.
I'm pretty sure that Amsoil has more PAO that Mobil-1 Just look at their cold pour point comparison. The SSO 0w30 is -60oF


M1 0w40 is -54C, which is -65.2F, so does it then have more PAO than SSO?

I'm thinking it has a higher ester content, given that Redline is -60C....
 
Though I am running Mobil 1 we read not only the UOA problem with iron, but also the start up tick, oil burning, valve noise etc. So that makes me think how could this be a good oil with all these problems? Real life I have none of these problems but why bother ?Other oils are just as good. The UOA might not be the best, but hardly do you see PP in trouble. Mobil now that is another story. So UOA might not be the best for everyting , atleast it can give you a pretty overall picture of how a oil performs. Yes I agree XOM should atleast address this website if they sponsor it.
 
Mobil 1 0W40 and 15W50 I`ve read to be grp IV/V.

On the UOA topic,dinos always seem to produce less wear metals than synths,and you also never hear any reports of excessive engine noise with dinos. In my experience,my engine runs MUCH smoother with dinos,but,the manual tranny and read diff perform night and day difference better with synths. That made me believe the Timken test definitely applies to gears and not engines.
 
Use Redline, no speculation here,Its a group 5 and its the real deal and costs 1 dollar more! Its a no brainer!!

This is what i use..
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Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Though I am running Mobil 1 we read not only the UOA problem with iron, but also the start up tick, oil burning, valve noise etc. So that makes me think how could this be a good oil with all these problems? Real life I have none of these problems but why bother ?Other oils are just as good. The UOA might not be the best, but hardly do you see PP in trouble. Mobil now that is another story. So UOA might not be the best for everyting , atleast it can give you a pretty overall picture of how a oil performs. Yes I agree XOM should atleast address this website if they sponsor it.


In 20+ years now of using M1, I've never had ANY of those problems.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: buster
I think there is a good chance M1 will be mostly PAO/V going forward, if it's not already. It's possible the Katrina disruption impacted their move to some Grp III along with price. Their oils still contain significant amounts of PAO, more than any other oil readily available. Some are all Grp IV/V based, others are blends.
I'm pretty sure that Amsoil has more PAO that Mobil-1 Just look at their cold pour point comparison. The SSO 0w30 is -60oF


M1 10W30 High Mileage also has a pour point of -60 (actually the chart says -54 degrees Centigrade). Don't forget that there are about 20 different formulations and weights of M1, as there are formulations of Amsoil.
 
Redline is the ONLY company that will unequivocally answer questions about base stocks. Their customer service is the best in the business. These two indisputable facts alone make their products worth the money to me. Mobil 1 absolutely leaves everyone else choking on their dust when it comes to marketing a product that was at one time among the very best. However, their obfuscation and evasiveness regarding wear issues (re:TomNJ post) and base stocks would make most politicians blush.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I think there is a good chance M1 will be mostly PAO/V going forward, if it's not already.
Buster, please elaborate.
 
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