I don't think this engine has a belt, but wanted to check with the BITOG experts to be sure
Timing belt or chain....03 Honda CRV 2.4 L
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Honda uses belts.
Honda uses belts AND chains. I think their V-6 still has a belt, but at least some of their newly designed 4's have chains. Don't know if they have advanced to hydraulic (self adjusting) valve lifters yet, or not.
Seems a lot of manufacturers are getting away from the very expensive to replace belts.
Seems a lot of manufacturers are getting away from the very expensive to replace belts.
FowVay is correct. The K24A1 engine in your CR-V uses a timing chain.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Don't know if they have advanced to hydraulic (self adjusting) valve lifters yet, or not.
*sigh* As of 2005 they hadn't yet. My 1989 MX-6 had hydraulic lifters; you'd think that Honda could make this happen.
Don't know if they have advanced to hydraulic (self adjusting) valve lifters yet, or not.
*sigh* As of 2005 they hadn't yet. My 1989 MX-6 had hydraulic lifters; you'd think that Honda could make this happen.
Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Don't know if they have advanced to hydraulic (self adjusting) valve lifters yet, or not.
*sigh* As of 2005 they hadn't yet. My 1989 MX-6 had hydraulic lifters; you'd think that Honda could make this happen.
I was surprised when I was shopping before I bought my Civic that they still used mechanically adjusted tappets. But when I started looking into it, I found that it's actually pretty common. IIRC Honda is alone in using the "screw-and-locknut" style tappets, but lots of manufacturers are still using shim-over-bucket ones, including Toyota, Nissan, Ford/Mazda, and more. At least with the Honda ones you don't have to remove the cam to adjust a valve if any are off.
I think there are probably design considerations here beyond plain technological advancement, but I'm not sure what they are.
Not to push this off topic. All current Honda 4 cyl models in the US use timing chains. The belts were phased out, I think, with the D17 in the 2005 Civic and probably the B20 in the 2001 CR-V. The V6 is still using a belt, leftover from its 1996 (I think) debut. I'd bet that when/if they replace that block, the new V6 will have chain driven cams.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Don't know if they have advanced to hydraulic (self adjusting) valve lifters yet, or not.
*sigh* As of 2005 they hadn't yet. My 1989 MX-6 had hydraulic lifters; you'd think that Honda could make this happen.
I was surprised when I was shopping before I bought my Civic that they still used mechanically adjusted tappets. But when I started looking into it, I found that it's actually pretty common. IIRC Honda is alone in using the "screw-and-locknut" style tappets, but lots of manufacturers are still using shim-over-bucket ones, including Toyota, Nissan, Ford/Mazda, and more. At least with the Honda ones you don't have to remove the cam to adjust a valve if any are off.
I think there are probably design considerations here beyond plain technological advancement, but I'm not sure what they are.
Not to push this off topic. All current Honda 4 cyl models in the US use timing chains. The belts were phased out, I think, with the D17 in the 2005 Civic and probably the B20 in the 2001 CR-V. The V6 is still using a belt, leftover from its 1996 (I think) debut. I'd bet that when/if they replace that block, the new V6 will have chain driven cams.
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Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
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Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
Thanks for clarifying
Seems the Japanese have an affinity for non-roller adjustable valvetrains for some reason? At least in many applications.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
Thanks for clarifying
Seems the Japanese have an affinity for non-roller adjustable valvetrains for some reason? At least in many applications.
Originally Posted By: rationull
. . .
Not to push this off topic. All current Honda 4 cyl models in the US use timing chains. The belts were phased out, I think, with the D17 in the 2005 Civic and probably the B20 in the 2001 CR-V. The V6 is still using a belt, leftover from its 1996 (I think) debut. I'd bet that when/if they replace that block, the new V6 will have chain driven cams.
Still OT, but I wonder what's taking Honda so long. Toyota's nice, but belt-driven MZ series engines are almost completely gone now, replaced by the more economical and chain-driven-cam GR series engines. I liked my 1MZ V-6, but our Avalon's 2GR 3.5L is amazing in comparison.
. . .
Not to push this off topic. All current Honda 4 cyl models in the US use timing chains. The belts were phased out, I think, with the D17 in the 2005 Civic and probably the B20 in the 2001 CR-V. The V6 is still using a belt, leftover from its 1996 (I think) debut. I'd bet that when/if they replace that block, the new V6 will have chain driven cams.
Still OT, but I wonder what's taking Honda so long. Toyota's nice, but belt-driven MZ series engines are almost completely gone now, replaced by the more economical and chain-driven-cam GR series engines. I liked my 1MZ V-6, but our Avalon's 2GR 3.5L is amazing in comparison.
Nissan uses hydraulic lifters in most of their engines - so does Toyota in a rare instance. Honda uses screw-type adjustments, while Toyota uses shim over bucket or shim under bucket - however the Prius, Camry, and the IS F need their lifters swapped out if different thicknesses are needed.
Honda may maintain mechanically adjusted "screw and nut" lash adjustment due to their VTEC engagement philosophy and design. Adding a hydraulic lash mechanism could be an unnecessary complexity which may detract from long term reliability.
Hydraulic lifters are nice when everything works. But dirty oil, sludging etc usually leads to collapsed lifters which is detrimental to engine operation. Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
Hydraulic lifters are nice when everything works. But dirty oil, sludging etc usually leads to collapsed lifters which is detrimental to engine operation. Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
the 3.9L V8 in the Lincoln LS and latest generation T-bird uses the shim over bucket design.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which Ford engines have the "shim over bucket" style? The Modular engines use hydraulic lash adjusters with roller followers.....
Sorry, should've specified I was talking about the Duratec 20/23 (whether you want to refer to that as a Ford engine or a Mazda one is certainly debatable). I didn't mean to imply that *all* engines from the manufacturers I listed used mechanical tappets -- I don't think that holds true for Nissan or Toyota either.
the 3.9L V8 in the Lincoln LS and latest generation T-bird uses the shim over bucket design.
Originally Posted By: chrome
Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
rubbish! I bought and drove home a high mileage 12valve SOHC turbo car where the exhaust rocker HLA had been collapsed for so long that it snapped, leaving the #1 exhaust valve closed! Not sure how long the previous owner had it like that, but even with the stuck closed exh valve, once the turbo spooled up she still pulled like a scalded dog. I guess all the boost went to the other 3 cylinder
That engine was terribly abused, but I just replaced the rocker arm, flushed with ATF (pre BITOG) and racked up another 150-kms. It passed emissions with lower levels than a 99 Civic according to the astonished tech, never burned a drop of oil even to the day I sold it. No wonder that iron engine block is still being used today, as a 173hp 293ft/lbs CR-Diesel engine.
Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
rubbish! I bought and drove home a high mileage 12valve SOHC turbo car where the exhaust rocker HLA had been collapsed for so long that it snapped, leaving the #1 exhaust valve closed! Not sure how long the previous owner had it like that, but even with the stuck closed exh valve, once the turbo spooled up she still pulled like a scalded dog. I guess all the boost went to the other 3 cylinder
You must have an amazing engine. If you lost the exhaust valve in your 12V 4 cyl engine, it means you lost 1 cylinder essentially as the 4-stroke cycle cannot occur in that cylinder. Where does the exhaust stroke vent the spent gases, but back into the intake manifold?
So it starts and idles perfectly, and pulls hard while losing 1 out of 4 cylinder? No detectable misfiring at all?
So it starts and idles perfectly, and pulls hard while losing 1 out of 4 cylinder? No detectable misfiring at all?
Originally Posted By: chrome
Honda may maintain mechanically adjusted "screw and nut" lash adjustment due to their VTEC engagement philosophy and design. Adding a hydraulic lash mechanism could be an unnecessary complexity which may detract from long term reliability.
Hydraulic lifters are nice when everything works. But dirty oil, sludging etc usually leads to collapsed lifters which is detrimental to engine operation. Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
On the other hand, hydraulic lash adjustment, a near 100% feature of American cars since the 1950's, certainly reduces the complexity of valve maintenance. Other manufacturers seem to have no problem with this in their VTEC systems.
I have owned 26 cars in my long lifetime, 14 purchased new and 12 purchased used, and perusing the list, I see only three that did not have hydraulic lifters. I have never had a problem, except back in the 1960's I had a couple of Chevy V-8's that, promptly at 3,000 miles on an OCI, the lifters would start pecking, announcing the need for fresh oil.
I would never again own a vehicle with a timing belt or mechanically adjusted valves.
Honda may maintain mechanically adjusted "screw and nut" lash adjustment due to their VTEC engagement philosophy and design. Adding a hydraulic lash mechanism could be an unnecessary complexity which may detract from long term reliability.
Hydraulic lifters are nice when everything works. But dirty oil, sludging etc usually leads to collapsed lifters which is detrimental to engine operation. Some engines won't even start or idle properly with one or more collapsed lifters.
On the other hand, hydraulic lash adjustment, a near 100% feature of American cars since the 1950's, certainly reduces the complexity of valve maintenance. Other manufacturers seem to have no problem with this in their VTEC systems.
I have owned 26 cars in my long lifetime, 14 purchased new and 12 purchased used, and perusing the list, I see only three that did not have hydraulic lifters. I have never had a problem, except back in the 1960's I had a couple of Chevy V-8's that, promptly at 3,000 miles on an OCI, the lifters would start pecking, announcing the need for fresh oil.
I would never again own a vehicle with a timing belt or mechanically adjusted valves.
Originally Posted By: chrome
You must have an amazing engine. If you lost the exhaust valve in your 12V 4 cyl engine, it means you lost 1 cylinder essentially as the 4-stroke cycle cannot occur in that cylinder. Where does the exhaust stroke vent the spent gases, but back into the intake manifold?
So it starts and idles perfectly, and pulls hard while losing 1 out of 4 cylinder? No detectable misfiring at all?
Oh it certainly did misfire!! My guess is everything went back out the intake port back into the intake manifold for the other cylinders to consume. As a temp fix I borrowed a rocker arm from one of the intake valves until i could snag one from the junkyard. Yes, before the fix when the boost came on, the engine still torqued up which was funny and suprising.
You must have an amazing engine. If you lost the exhaust valve in your 12V 4 cyl engine, it means you lost 1 cylinder essentially as the 4-stroke cycle cannot occur in that cylinder. Where does the exhaust stroke vent the spent gases, but back into the intake manifold?
So it starts and idles perfectly, and pulls hard while losing 1 out of 4 cylinder? No detectable misfiring at all?
Oh it certainly did misfire!! My guess is everything went back out the intake port back into the intake manifold for the other cylinders to consume. As a temp fix I borrowed a rocker arm from one of the intake valves until i could snag one from the junkyard. Yes, before the fix when the boost came on, the engine still torqued up which was funny and suprising.
All my early Toyota's had manual adjusted cam followers or rockers. By the time I was in H.S. I could do all the valves on my Toyota 4 cylinders in under 18 minutes not counting how long it took to get it hot. So I do not see where the mechanical adjustment is that big of a deal 18 minutes ever 30,000 miles never seemed like much of a sacrifice to have the most accurate valve action and less unsprung mass! Hydraulic lifters and slack adjusters are sloppy and only thing they really do is pander to lazy people and those that are too incompetent to pick up a wrench and get it done! Etended Oil Changes are more of the same they mostly pander to fleets that want low initial cost of ownership number by keeping maintenance to a minimum....So while I do not pine away missing the good old days I do not see hydraulic lifters or slack adjusters as a huge selling point. That is right up their with the vanity mirror and lights on the passenger side of the car not a big selling point for me!
Now timing chain instead of a belt that is a big thing.....I hate timing belts and definately am not sad to see them go!
Now timing chain instead of a belt that is a big thing.....I hate timing belts and definately am not sad to see them go!
Wow, John.. you sure HLAs are that bad? They keep engines quiet, unless you sludge up your engine. I really wanted to convert to SLA bucket lifters, but a friend of mine with the same motor has cams, springs and uses stock HLAs and his redline is 11.5K RPM. That's not bad for HLA! He runs 11's all day, all motor, and most of that engine is stock. How many 3+year old Honda have a supremely quiet valvetrain? Few and far between because people really don't buy Hondas to crack open the valve cover every 36K you know? It's no problem for you and I, but the average Jackson that just wants to gas, go and do basic maints, wont think once about it. They don't buy Toyotas to have to measure lash, test fit a new shim, re-install cams and re-measure lash only to repeat that 16 times which explains why the valvetrain on every 2.0/2.2 Toyota all sound terrible. Newer style mechanical bucket lifters seems to be more durable to live up to their "lifetime adjusted" status, as the good ones all have tapered base circles which pull oil onto the bucket surface with every revolution. IMO mechanical rockers/finger followers are the worst as the cam pads and the adjustment screw have a tiny fraction of the wear surface of a rotating bucket lifter. Ironically, a large percentage of people have neglected oil changes, get HLA tick and auto manufacturers have responded by converting to SLA to mask the problem! Try changing your oil
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