Toyota T-IV, 25,000 miles, 2006 Camry U250E trans

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Here's a copy of the Blackstone Labs report on my factory fill of Toyota T-IV ATF with 25,000 miles on it (and 25,000 miles on the car). Both car and oil are 3.5 years old.

I ordered a TAN but didn't order a TBN since a couple people wrote in a thread that only a TAN is necessary for the ATF, but if anyone thinks I should get a TBN too, I think there's still time for me to email Blackstone and request one. I think they don't throw away the samples right away.

The ATF that I sent them is 99 percent Toyota T-IV and 1 percent Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, since two days before I took the ATF sample for Blackstone, I had poured in 1 ounce of Mobil 1 ATF (not 1 quart, but one ounce). I had thought I was a tad low, but I probably wasn't (I just hadn't checked the ATF when it was hot enough, like after a 30-mile highway run).

Just like motor oil samples, I think you're suppose to take the ATF sample mid-stream after it starts pouring out of the pan, but I hastily took the sample closer to the start than the middle of the stream. Don't know if that made a difference here.

The transmission in this 2006 4-cylinder Camry LE is either the Aisin U250E or the U151E. I think it's the U250E. Total ATF capacity is probably around 7.x quarts for the U250E whereas it's 9.3 quarts for the U151E. The drain and refill amount for both the U250E and U151E is 3.7 quarts.

After I took the Toyota T-IV ATF sample for Blackstone, I did a drain and refill, adding about 4 quarts of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. So right now I have about a 50/50 mix of T-IV and Mobil 1 in the car, but the numbers in the Blackstone sample below are from an ATF fluid that is 99 percent Toyota T-IV and just 1 percent Mobil 1, so almost all T-IV.

Probably 85 percent or more of my driving the past 3.5 years has been city driving, and about 15 percent has been highway (maybe even 10 percent highway). Always gentle driving on the streets of Columbia, Missouri and St. Louis, Missouri.

Blackstone Labs says, "Our universal averages show typical wear from a Toyota automatic transmission after an oil run of ~20,000 miles" (so 5 thousand miles less than my 25,000-mile run of the factory fill).

From Blackstone Labs:

Sample date: July 2, 2009.
Miles on ATF oil: 25,000
Miles on car: 25,000

[First number = my sample's results] , [Second number = Universal Averages from a Toyota automatic transmission]

Aluminum 28 , 16
Chromium, 1 , 0
Iron 73 , 38

Copper 17 , 57
Lead 30 , 14
Tin 5 , 2

Molybdenum 0 , 1
Nickel 4 , 0
Manganese 3 , 1

Silver 0 , 0
Titanium 0 , 0
Potassium 0 , 1

Boron 32 , 57
Silicon 27 , 19
Sodium 8 , 4

Calcium 117 , 131
Magnesium 1 , 17
Phosphorus 228 , 297

Zinc 16 , 56
Barium 17 , 3

MY RESULTS // VALUES SHOULD BE

SUS Viscosity @ 210* F = 46.7 // 43 - 51
cSt Viscosity @ 100* C = 6.26 // 5.1 - 7.9
Flashpoint in *F = 360 // > 335
Fuel % = --
Antifreeze % = --
Water % = 0.0 // < 0.1
Insolubles % = 0.0 // < 0.1

TBN =
TAN = 1.9
 
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More frequent drain/refills will help. Once a year is a good start.

Break in wear is creating the high numbers.

This ATF needs a flush. A filter should be installed if you don't want to maintain it much.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
This ATF needs a flush.


Thanks. I'll flush it then. Will use the simple home procedure of disconnecting the ATF oil cooler's outlet hose from the transmission's inlet, and adding a quart of Mobil 1 ATF after turning off the car after every 10 or 15-second engine idling. There's no way to damage your car by doing it this way, is there?
 
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Oh, yeah, and how many more quarts of Mobil 1 should I add during the cooler line flush? 4 more quarts on top of the 4 I drained and filled last week? Or maybe add 8 more quarts during the flush?

Should I first do another pan drain and refill before the cooler line flush? Or just go straight to the flush?
 
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honestly i don't think it needs a flush.

I would do a drain and fill using ATF of your choosing, every 20,ooo miles or so. This would be more than adequate, even for occasional towing.
 
If unDummy says I need a flush, I need a flush. But I won't trust the dealer to do the job. They probably would do a good job, but last time they rotated my tires, they over-torqued by over 50 foot-pounds. The tech didn't even use a torque wrench. He used some kind of small ratchet-looking pneumatic or electric thing. It was much thinner like a ratchet than thick like an impact wrench. I do the tire rotating now, and oil changes ;-)
 
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There is no way of harming your system by doing a cooler line flush. 1 quart isn't effective.

I would drain/refill one more time with 4 quarts. Then start the cooler line flush pumping out the drain/refill capacity(~3.7 quarts) from the ATF hose. Top it off & repeat if you want. Button it up, final refill, and check accurate hot running level.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
1 quart isn't effective.


I didn't mean I would add only 1 more quart. I meant I would add 1 more quart after every 15-second idling of the engine :)
 
Originally Posted By: JakeR22
So Mobil 1 states their fluid works in this application?


Yes, visit MobilOil.com , and you'll see that they say their Synthetic ATF is suitable for T-IV applications.
 
If it were mine it would do a drain & fill every 15K and just monitor the color and smell of the fluid. Also I would use T-IV as it is the recommend fluid. Hope you dont have problems during the 5/60 warranty, as they may deny a claim. Good luck getting the mighty EXXon to pay. T-IV is available at resonable prices. But if you are one the loyal Mobil-1 people , I understand.

On a lighter note, I bet the hight Iron was from that one oz. of Mobil 1.
 
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Ah, now I see why folks usually skip getting a TBN for their ATF. When I wrote back to Blackstone requesting a TBN if they hadn't yet thrown away the sample, they replied:

"Thanks for the e-mail. Yes, we can run a TBN on this sample, though I have to warn you, it's likely to be close to 0.0. ATF's don't contain enough detergent/dispersant additive for them to register a TBN, and that's why this test isn't normally run on that type of oil. If you still want it run let me know. We have enough oil and we normally keep the samples for a week."

Nice to know Blackstone keeps the samples for a week. Anyone have any thoughts as to why ATFs don't have many detergent/dispersant additives to register a TBN? The TAN on my ATF was a bit high at 1.9. Wouldn't a lot of calcium and magnesium in the ATF have reduced the acidity?

I guess there's very little fuel dilution inside a transmission since there's no blow-by passed piston rings like in the engine's combustion chamber, but my ATF still showed a TAN of 1.9.
 
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By the way, I emailed Blackstone the above question yesterday (Thursday), and they got back to me by email early this morning. They are very prompt and fast.

I mailed the ATF sample using $5 U.S. Priority Mail on Monday. Blackstone emailed me the UOA results on Wednesday just before 4:30 PM Central Time, which must have been the same day they got the sample in the mail. Very fast turnaround. They say they usually run the tests on the same day they receive the sample in the mail, which is great.

One thing to avoid, though, is mailing them the round cannister by regular mail. Put Blackstone's round cannister in a Priority Mail square cardboard box, otherwise a post office--maybe the one in Fort Wayne, Indiana where they're located--may hold up the delivery by 5 or so days, which seems to be what happened when I mailed the round cannister in November without a cardboard box and without Priority Mail.
 
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Hermann, that's a funny one, but the high iron couldn't have been from the 1 ounce of Mobil 1 ATF that I added two days before sending in the sample which was 99 percent T-IV and 1 percent Mobil 1 {Lol}. Other wear metals like lead, aluminum, and nickel were also elevated--and Mobil 1 isn't known for mysteriously elevating those metals.

You gotta remember, the T-IV sample was the factory fill that went through the break-in period, so I guess a little elevated wear is to be expected.

This is what Blackstone wrote on the UOA sheet:

"Thanks for the note about the [1 ounce of Mobil 1] make-up oil that you used. We don't see that the Mobil 1 ATF affected anything and for a factory fill, wear looks pretty good. All of the wear metals that are above average should improve now that this oil has been changed out. Our universal averages show typical wear from a Toyota automatic transmission after an oil run of ~20,000 miles. We see that you're interested in extended use and we're all for it. Try 35,000 miles next time. The TAN read 1.9, which shows some acidity in the oil, though not all
oils start out with a TAN of 0.0." [End quote]

Comments welcome.
 
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Built Well,

I was just kidding on the iron. I think your report was great for a FF that ran that long. Any maintance is better than none at all. Good luck on your AT.
 
Originally Posted By: Hermann
I think your report was great for a FF that ran that long.


....And to think Toyota says the T-IV is a lifetime fluid that doesn't need to be changed unless driving under the severe condition of towing. It even says so on the '06 Camry's dipstick.

The Toyota Scheduled Maintenace Guide says to change out the T-IV ATF after 60,000 miles or 6 years if primarily towing. Sounds kind of far for a non-synthetic driven severely (towing).

Is Toyota still sticking to this story in the 2009 or 2010 Camry? Anyone have a Scheduled Maintenance Guide for those model years?
 
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Toyota has forced 5k oil changes but still, IMO, is neglecting ALL other fluids like ATF, PSF, gear oils.....

I personally don't care what they recommend. If you plan on keeping it, maintain it. Take the owners manual and throw it away.
 
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