Mobil 1 better cleaner than AutoRx?

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Originally Posted By: Mystic
That is a nice clean engine in that Mustang with that many miles on it, OVERKILL.

What was used in the Expedition before you used the M1 5W20?


No clue bud, we bought it with 151,000Km on it (IIRC, that's off the top of my head) and it was switched to M1 5w20 at 153,069Km. That was run out to 162,022Km, when it was switched to M1 5w40 TDT, which is what is in it currently.
 
Just proves that Mobil 1 is a very good oil. What about all the people who want to use $1.79 conventional oil in their car or truck? Then Auto-Rx is just the product to clean up the garbage left behind by the cheap oil. Not every one is willing to spend $25 dollars more per OCI for a superior synthetic oil in their vehicles.
 
I agree that the Stang motor looks very clean, on the top end, pictured. But dnewton3's vulcan motor top looked equally as clean, yet had stuck rings in the middle cylinders. Not saying yours are Overkill, but with regards to which is the better cleaner, M1 did not free up his rings, yet ARX did. In M1 defense the vulcan motor had been overheated due to a coolant hose leak.

But you have got to look at the motor design as well. Folks running older 1.8 liter turbos, volvos, saabs running less than 10K OCI's still can get sludged up running M1 or other full synthetics from other posts here on BITOG.

But be proud of your Stang maintenance, you are better at it than most.
 
I know this is just a personal observation and not based on any serious research, but I am going to say it anyway.

I have been doing an Auto-RX cleaning in my Saturn Ion engine and I am almost done with the cleaning. I am 100% certain that the engine already is running better than before I put the Auto-RX in. I will start the rinse part next week.

The engine is smoother, runs better and just feels good. I do 3000 mile oil changes (Valvoline 5W30 conventional) so I don't think the engine should have sludge build up, but I can tell the difference.

But like Mori would say, that is just testimony with no proof.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
But like Mori would say, that is just testimony with no proof.


You just don't get it. I am not saying the product does not work. I am saying the success of the product is based on testimonials, and nothing but positive testimonials at that. You just supplied more of the same. Thank you for proving my point.
 
Originally Posted By: Rick20
I agree that the Stang motor looks very clean, on the top end, pictured. But dnewton3's vulcan motor top looked equally as clean, yet had stuck rings in the middle cylinders. Not saying yours are Overkill, but with regards to which is the better cleaner, M1 did not free up his rings, yet ARX did. In M1 defense the vulcan motor had been overheated due to a coolant hose leak.

But you have got to look at the motor design as well. Folks running older 1.8 liter turbos, volvos, saabs running less than 10K OCI's still can get sludged up running M1 or other full synthetics from other posts here on BITOG.

But be proud of your Stang maintenance, you are better at it than most.


How were the rings determined to be stuck? Compression test? Tear-down?
 
The earth is flat. The only reason why I can't see the ship disappear on the horizon is because my vision is poor. Gee, I checked my yard yesterday with an extremely long level. Sure enough its flat. Now I have lost total vision and hearing. Convince me the earth is round. Those darn testomonial people have alot of nerve, claiming the earth is round.
 
Testimonials are proof. They are not quantifiable proof, but meaningful proof nevertheless. Testimonials are a customers' word of mouth. I find customer word of mouth statements more credible than a vendor's in-house measurements or claims. Quantifiable proof requires an engine teardown. Which is exactly what ARX is purchased to avoid.

Many testimonials have posted photographs, which while not measurable proof, are evidence of results. Some are more compelling than others.

I have no doubt that the product doesn't work in all cases. It will not clean up a clean engine. It will not repair mechanical damage. I have had it not work in some instances.

I have used the product for a number of years. I try not to use it unless there is a problem. About 75% of the time I get discernible results. I most recently used it to save a colleague's S80 that had reached a low oil pressure warning from heavy sludging. The light was off within 200 miles of an ARX treatment, and significant deposits have been observed in subsequent filter cartridges. And the car is running substantially better according to the owner: most notably higher mileage. If someone wants to pay for a Volvo I-6 teardown to measure results, send the money. But for under $50, the S80 owner is very happy with the results.

M1 is a very fine oil. It keeps engines very clean. Some varieties, such as D1, are still best-in-breed. But looking at the OP, and the title of this thread, claiming M1 a better cleanser than ARX (and deriding ARX to do so), is rank boosterism. Perhaps Frank should wander over to the PCMO section and trash a certain variety of M1 that quickly thins way out of grade and then meets test sequence by oxidizing up? Is that what BITOG has come to? Tear down someone else to promote your favorite?

I have never seen M1 remedy a poor shifting ATX. I have seen a Ford AXOD full of M1 self-destruct. And I have seen ARX remedy a troubled ATX, more than once.
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Mystic
But like Mori would say, that is just testimony with no proof.


You just don't get it. I am not saying the product does not work. I am saying the success of the product is based on testimonials, and nothing but positive testimonials at that. You just supplied more of the same. Thank you for proving my point.



Hmm..I'm trying to figure out what else would be given on BITOG about any product ..or anywhere else for that matter.
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I guess nothing.
 
I agree a lot with what you say and I was going to do a reply kind of like this but I decided not too.

Frank never said that Auto-RX was some kind of miracle product that would repair a worn-out engine. He never said that Auto-RX would stop seal leaks if there was physical damage to the seals. He said that Auto-RX would clean the inside of engines if used properly and keep engines clean, and Auto-RX might stop a seal leak if the reason for the seal leak was sludge covering a seal and the oil unable to reach the seal.

I am old school and I do 3000 mile oil changes. It seems I should not have sludge. I am using Valvoline 5W30 conventional oil that should be a good enough motor oil. But a seal leak did stop leaking in a car I used to own after I did an Auto-RX cleaning. I know this to be a fact. I am not lying about it.

In order to prove the value of Auto-RX once and for all, there would have to be engine tear downs before and after the Auto-RX cleanings. Who is going to pay for this? Or who is going to do it on a fleet of vehicles they have access to?

The last I heard eye witness testimonials are still admissible in court.

I would say in about 80% of the posts I read where somebody had used Auto-RX they got positive results. In a lot of the posts where people did not get positive results you have cases where a guy used Auto-RX in a brand new car. Not likely big time results there. Or somebody expected Auto-RX to repair an engine that was totally worn out or repair physicaly damaged seals.

What does Auto-RX cost now? About 20 bucks a bottle? If a guy is facing an engine replacement or major overhaul 20 bucks is pocket change. And conventional motor oil is fairly cheap and Mobil 1 is expensive. I do like synthetic oil in the wintertime. Synthetic oil flows better in the cold. But conventional oil saves money the rest of the year, especially in a car with over 70,000 miles on it. I prefer 3000 mile oil changes and I don't like the idea of putting an expensive oil in a car with a lot of miles. If conventional works good enough than great.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Testimonials are proof. They are not quantifiable proof, but meaningful proof nevertheless. Testimonials are a customers' word of mouth.


Do you know what the term "conflict of interests" means in the case of friends and family giving testimony?
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You seem to be implying "shills". There are people who answer questions about Auto-Rx. All are or were users or are/were involved with Auto-Rx in one manner or another. I really don't see too much in the form of "MY GOD, MAN!! IT'S THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!" sensationalism. Those that answer questions have the experience to do so.

I once visited this site called Bulltear.com after someone on a jeep board showed an oil that they were selling.

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I read the product announcement on their little message board and it was pretty pathetic:

"A whole lot of tech went into this oil" were the comments by the owner ..and it was bolstered by a supporting "customer". "Never has my AMX ran so smooth! I can't wait to put it in my jeep!"

While the stuff was obviously a rebadged HDEO 15w-40. They wouldn't even produce a MSDS when requested ..as they would be required.

Now the really bad part was that they charged more than what you would pay for M1 at the time.


I don't see anyone of that caliber here posting about Auto-Rx. I see people giving advice. I see people telling their results good or otherwise..

..but other than that, there's a few anti-Auto-Rx'rs ..which seem to have no other purpose but to stifle posting about the product.
 
Yes, it is not like the guys who are so totally anti-Auto-RX are forced to buy it or something. If somebody does not believe in a product don't buy it!

Some of the guys who are so against Auto-RX keep demanding proof that it works. Well, how about if they produce good solid proof that it does not work? How about if they pull some engines apart before and after using Auto-RX?

I don't mind if somebody says I tried the product and it did not work for me. We need to hear both the positive and the negative. But what drives me crazy is when somebody keeps saying that 'all the evidence is just personal testimony.' Well, I guess if somebody was rich we could employ Exxon/Mobil to run a test fleet of cars and trucks and do lab tests. How much would that cost? It is not going to happen. So I guess they need to get used to the fact that there will be personal testimony.

I am willing to test something if I am reasonably certain it is safe for my engine. After I came to this website I decided to try Auto-RX. I might try Lubegard Engine Flush someday because I have some confidence in Lubegard products and I am kind of curious to see what the results would be. But that will be in the future because I have two bottles of Auto-RX and I will do maintenance doses after my rinse.

But if I do try something all I have are my personal observations and how the engine seems to respond. I can't do some kind of lab testing. I can't run tests in a fleet of vehicles.
 
Just one more thing. If the Chinese and others approached Frank to try to buy the patents for Auto-RX, than these people know something.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Well, how about if they produce good solid proof that it does not work? How about if they pull some engines apart before and after using Auto-RX?

I think mori did just that with his engine, but somehow when he posted the pictures, a lot of ARX lovers jumped on him claiming that the pictures were doctored.
 
I don't remember seeing the photos. I guess I did not see them. Hey, if somebody submits evidence that a product does not work then we must be willing to take that evidence into account.

It would be nice if there was some product, reasonably, priced, that we could all agree on as helping to get an engine clean. Maybe people will be willing to try other products, such as Lubegard Engine Flush, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc.

I was impressed with OVERKILL's photos of the top of his engine. Somebody said that Mobil 1 oil is not as effective on the rings. Well, without pulling the whole engine apart, maybe compression tests would give an idea of the condition of the rings.

How about if we work TOGETHER to see what works and what does not work?

Without pulling an engine apart we could probably do some simple tests on products like Lubegard Engine Flush and MMO. We could add the product to a car or truck engine that was known to be somewhat dirty. Add it early in an oil change before the oil got dirty. If the oil comes out black as coal the stuff must be working.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Well, how about if they produce good solid proof that it does not work? How about if they pull some engines apart before and after using Auto-RX?

I think mori did just that with his engine, but somehow when he posted the pictures, a lot of ARX lovers jumped on him claiming that the pictures were doctored.


Not exactly. The picture in question was taken BEFORE I ever used ARX, which made the claim that I doctored the image utterly hilarious. My accuser wasn't thinking right, apparently. The other claim was that this picture was maybe of a clean low-milage engine and not of mine at 122k miles.
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By the way, my engine has now over 180k miles on it. I intend to take another picture with the valve covers off this fall. I wonder what claims will be made this time. Maybe someone will say I must have been running ARX all those years.
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