is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?

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Originally Posted By: Tobin
Well pete.. Its like this, you can do the math in several ways and I guess regular oil is still going to be cheaper but not by much. So i get that now.

How is using regular oil cheaper?

Say you do 10k miles a year - that's one oil change using synthetic or two oil changes using mineral.

Cost of synethetic oil change - $100, as you noted. I'm guessing about $60 of it is materials, $40 labor.

Cost of mineral oil change - about $30 for materials (using quality mineral oil) and again that $40 labor, so $70 total; $140 for the year.

Not only is the mineral route more expensive, you also waste twice as much time.

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And no I dont run my car on premium.

I've been using regular gasoline since last november and havent noticed any problems or symptoms of engine knocking. So i assumed what I read was true. Am I wrong on this?

You're right that it's not going to cause problems, but your reasons for doing it are flawed. You're probably thinking you're saving money by running regular. You are not.

Because the engine adjusts timing based on lower octane gas, two things happen:

1. the car's performance is negatively affected
2. the car consumes more fuel

So, there go your savings.

Now, I know you will say that you don't notice any difference in performance. In which case we go back to the previous question: do you notice any difference between driving a BMW and a KIA? If not, again, there is a potential for you to save a lot more money there.
 
Originally Posted By: Tobin
What does RTS stand for? RTS 5w-40 is mineral oil... how much does that go for? How often should that be changed. Just want to collect information on that.

Shell Rotella T Synthetic. There are no 5w-40 mineral oils.

It's about $20 for 1 gallon. You would need 2 gallons for an oil change. It's good oil, but doesn't carry BMW approvals (either because it doesn't meet their specs or wasn't tested for it).

But for about $40, when on sale, you can also buy 7 quarts of synthetic oil that does meet BMW spec, so I'm not sure if RTS is such a great deal here.
 
Originally Posted By: mva
I agree with most of the other posters here:

These engines are subject to sludging problems, high oil usage and plugged crankcase ventilation systems. Using correct oil will help you avoid these problems. Using dino and long oil change intervals and you will have them.


If you have to use dino I would use a 15W40 and change the oil every 5,000 miles. Or, if you are going to use a cheaper synthetic go with a 10W30 rather than the 5W30.



Okay you just said BMW engines are more prone to sludging problems.. why is that? Why does it consume more oil, etc. So why is synthetic oil more able to combat sludge, I read on company websites(valvoline, castrol,etc.) that both their mineral and synthetic oils have detergents that prevent sludging. So do mean to say synthetic oil has more detergents than regular oil.

why is 15w40 dino better than 5w-40 dino grade? 5w-40 will break down alot faster?
 
I really would like to learn how to change oil on my own car, thought of taking a few auto shop classes at my local community college...thanks for the encouragement Rusty. If u were near by i would definetly take u up on your offer with out thinking twice lol. I will look into the price of some of these tools.
 
Changing oil on this car is a piece of cake. You don't need any classes. Buy yourself an oil extractor - it's about $50. You suck out the old oil from the top through the oil dipstick. You replace the oil filter and filter gasket from the top (with a 36mm socket). You pour the new oil in. You take the old oil (in the extractor) back to an auto parts store. And you're done.

This car is by far the easiest one to change oil/filter on.
 
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Changing the oil on a BMW with the right oil and filter (Mann) is easy.

In NY, use OW-40. Do not use 5W-30 or oW-30 as you will get valve knock.

The reason to use synthetic oil, beside BMWs are designed to be driven fast and fun, not as pretenious pets (I have one), is that 1) the oil needs to be to withstand the "fun" - if you drive any car like this - same thing 2) sludge is not tolerable in these engines without major problems



5000 mi spirited driving - 7500 mi normal - 10000 mi highway.

15000 mi is nuts - this isn't an Impala owned by sales guy. Cost too much.



Well thats the thing... So many mechanics have told changing the synthetic oil at 10 to 15k miles (as BMW recommends) is DANGEROUS. I dont know who to believe but even 10k on normal driving sounds a little to far fetched for me to believe. Almost all the NON-BMW mechanics have told a maximum of 7,500 to 8,000k miles is okay. But then that is what makes it expensive in the first place! at 7,500k intervals synthetic is putting a hole in my pocket unless i learn and get the time to change it myself. At 10 - 15k intervals it might be worth it, but I got mechanics telling me its DANGEROUS?

confused.
crazy2.gif
 
Im going to look it up on You tube Pete.. lol.. I told you I really dont have any mechanical prowess but I am willing to learn.

OKAY can any one enumerate some reasons why Regular oil is bad for an engine made to run on Synthetic?????????? Just make simple list for me so I can get my brother off my back. He is the main one telling me "Oil is oil...it'll do the same job."
 
Originally Posted By: Tobin
Almost all the NON-BMW mechanics have told a maximum of 7,500 to 8,000k miles is okay. But then that is what makes it expensive in the first place! at 7,500k intervals synthetic is putting a hole in my pocket

So what interval do those mechanics advise on mineral oil? 3-4k miles? If that's the case, then it's still half of the synthetic interval, in which case using mineral and changing it twice as often will cost you more. Come on!
 
Originally Posted By: bretfraz
If you plan to follow the on board oil life monitor, and change the oil when the maintenance indicator comes on, you need to use an oil specific to BMW's factory specs. I believe that is BMW LongLife-01. Check your owners manual to be sure.

So, the total cost for parts alone is around $55-60. Now you can see why the dealer charges $100 for an oil change when you factor in labor rates.

One idea is to buy the parts yourself, stock up when you find a sale, and take your car to an oil change place and see if they will do the oil change using your parts at a discounted rate. You might be able to have it done for $75, parts and labor. Not a big savings but it's something, right?

Beyond taking it to the dealer or an oil change place that uses the correct oil, your only choice is to DIY.



What does BMW LongLife 01 mean? What is the function and why should I only buy Synthetic oil with this approval approval.

I didnt think of buying the parts and taking it to a garage to do an oil change, thats a good idea. That is helpful in cutting down the price.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tobin
OKAY can any one enumerate some reasons why Regular oil is bad for an engine made to run on Synthetic?????????? Just make simple list for me so I can get my brother off my back. He is the main one telling me "Oil is oil...it'll do the same job."


You came here because you needed "advice badly from ppl who know cars and oil!!"

This advice was dispensed to you in all previous posts. Take it or leave it.

Now you want us to write cliff notes for your brother? Dude, get a grip. Personally, I don't care if you run Canola in your engine. After all, "oil is oil... it'll do the same job" right?
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Pete has said it best: all of the answers you seek are provided (expansively and in depth) in the many posts in this thread.

What they all boil down to is this:

IN YOUR NON-TURBOCHARGED APPLICATION, THE ONLY REASON TO RUN A SYNTHETIC (AND PARTICULARLY ONE THAT IS CERTIFIED BMW LONGLIFE-01) IS IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON RUNNING AN EXTENDED OIL CHANGE INTERVAL (OCI).

IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON FOLLOWING THE OIL LIFE MONITOR (OLM - DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS?) IN YOUR CAR THEN YOU NEED TO RUN A LL-01 CERTIFIED SYNTHETIC.

THIS WILL PREVENT SLUDGING AND EXCESS WEAR THAT WOULD (ALMOST CERTAINLY) OCCUR IF YOU TRIED TO RUN THE SAME EXTENDED OCI WITH A CONVENTIONAL MINERAL OIL.


Cheers,

J
 
Alot of good advice has been offered Tobin. By those who know oil, and those who own BMWs. Here's my final advice.

1: Use the correct octane. This isn't your mother's grocery getter. It's a performance machine. Lucky for you, it's out of warranty, because I've seen warranty claims denied for not using the correct octane. Read about it as well on the various Z4 forums I visit.

2: Use the correct oil. BMWUSA has a list. Again, it's a performance machine. You want to use cheap oil, do it. Go to RealOEM.com and look up what a refurbished engine will cost.

BMWs are great cars, provided you do what is required to maintain them.

The bottom line is that it's your car. It's up to you what you do with it. All anyone here can do is offer advise and knowledge. Follow it, don't follow it. Up to you.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
BMWs are great cars, provided you do what is required to maintain them.

True dat. Granted, BMWs may not be the most reliable cars out there, but people skimping on maintenance doesn't help either.

Accidentally, many people think that just because it's a fancy car that cost a lot of money, it shouldn't need any maintenance. I guess that is why BMW offers all scheduled maintenance at no extra cost during the warranty period because most owners don't want to hear about what it costs to maintain. Then again, that free maintenance is almost "no maintenance", and then the second owner is stuck with all the problems.
 
I've know many who trade it in when the warranty is up. I got lucky. I'm the second owner, so I got the balance of the warranty. I extended it to 100,000 through the dealer. (Which payed for itself with two of those brake jobs.)

Sometimes I think, I should of bought that new Mustang GT vert, but I'm happy with what I got. (And full coverage insurance is cheaper on a used Z4 than a new Stang. Big selling point.)
 
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Thanks guys.. didnt mean to offend anyone by my last post..Please dont think I havent heard your advice, although I heard more about WHAT type of oil to use rather than as to WHY the technical reasons Regular Oil is dangerous. I told you Im not much a mechanical guy. So when sifting through all this information its hard to understand the exact reasons your giving me.

What i meant to say was, If there is ANY ONE ELSE (other than those who replied) reading this post who can give me some of their view points and knowlegde on this issue as well. So I can get a broader consensus and get some more reasons as to why regular oil is harmful to a BMW engine. This is inform me more about my car and help me make decisions. I thank all you for contributing.

So far I got this:

-requirement of BMW oil is relatively high HT/HS.
- all bmw spec oils are aces a3 (have no idea what that means)
- BMW engines have typically high output and the construction is such that it puts the oil through some serious paces, so you want an oil that is very stable and still doing its job under those conditions
- regular oil will shear and create deposits earlier/quicker
- engines are subject to sludging problems, high oil usage and plugged crankcase ventilation systems. Using correct oil will help you avoid these problems. BUT why does synthetic more help clear sludge when I’ve read both mineral oil and synthetic have detergents that clean out sludge?
 
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For those of you who said I should sell my car... I think Im getting alot of pressure to do that..lol..I guess I want my cake and to eat it too but most of you are saying I cant have it both ways. Some of you said its okay to use qaulity mineral although only from certain companies and certian grades will do.

And one guy said the brakes are really expensive. I did fork up the cash to buy the brakes and rotor last Feburary. It was alot of money but I cant cut costs on safety. I use this car for everything, everyday driving, picking up my nephew, driving my mom back and forth to work, picking up kids for church and vacation bible school. So I guess im not like some of the BMW drivers on this site, we're not of the same kind, you and me lol.. but as said before I do enjoy the occasional spirited driving and unlike any other car I've driven, and its a great release from the stresses I get at work. My car is better than a girl... there I said it!! So im not selling it and I'm going to run it as long as i I can until it cant anymore.
 
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