The best oil for my bike?

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Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: JDD

Yep--you must pay $12/qt to keep bike happy. The countless trouble free miles run with Rotella or Delvac don't mean anything.


You need to shop somewhere else if you are paying $12/qt for motorcycle oil. The countless trouble free miles with Rotella and Delvac don't mean any thing to Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW, Ducatti, etc. That is why you don't see them as the recommended oils in the user manual. I am not saying that Rotella and Delvac won't work but it is not the best oil for the OP bike according to the bike manufacturers. Even the maker of Rotella and Delvac do not advertise them as motorcycle oil.




Maybe it's time you read what most of the participants of this forum are saying, rather than reading Hollywood brand oil labels and propaganda.

Show me any manufacturer that does not recommend their own brand in preference to others. Also, show me one manufacturer that says "do not use HDEOs.

I'll tell you right now. You're wrong. I run Rotella T in many motorcycles, ATVs and automobiles. Been using it for years. Dollar for dollar, HDEO's (Rotella in particular) provide lubrication protection more than adequate for small high performance motorcycle engines. I've run 15W40 Rotella T in air cooled ATV engines that performed flawlessly in very difficult conditions for over twenty years. I run it in two Suzuki liquid cooled ATVs, a liquid cooled Kawasaki 650cc dual purpose m/c engine and in a Honda Valkyrie engine. I've NEVER had an oil related engine problem.

You can say what you like about the Hollywood brands. However, when you mislead participants into thinking that the HDEO's aren't good for motorcycles and ATVs I feel it's necessary to challenge your uniformed comments.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus


Maybe it's time you read what most of the participants of this forum are saying, rather than reading Hollywood brand oil labels and propaganda.

Show me any manufacturer that does not recommend their own brand in preference to others. Also, show me one manufacturer that says "do not use HDEOs.

You can say what you like about the Hollywood brands. However, when you mislead participants into thinking that the HDEO's aren't good for motorcycles and ATVs I feel it's necessary to challenge your uniformed comments.


Ducati recommended Shell Advance lubricants for the GT1000 in the owner manual. Ducati does not have its own brand and I don't see Rotella or HDEO any where in the manual.

Maybe it's time you read what all of the oil manufacturers and motorcycle makers are saying, rather than reading internet oil labels and propaganda. HDEO will work but it is not the best for motorcycle. I have said it before and I will repeat here for you: go to any professionally sanctioned races and you will not see HDEO or diesel oil in the winner circle. If you are just putting around on your bike then any thing will work, including car oil.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
HDEO will work but it is not the best for motorcycle.

Depending on what we mean by "best," this is a defensible statement. So general agreement here.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I have said it before and I will repeat here for you: go to any professionally sanctioned races and you will not see HDEO or diesel oil in the winner circle.

That may well be true, but it does not prove the inability of HDEOs to hold up well under even stressful conditions.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If you are just putting around on your bike then any thing will work, including car oil.

That description fits my riding style quite well.

It also fits the riding style of 99% of the amateur bikers on the road today, including those who fancy themselves hard riders of their machines.

* * *
On a more positive note ... I caught a race on the Speed network. It was held in Italy somewhere, but I can't recall the location.

At any rate, I had not before realized how critically important braking ability is in those races. They showed slow motion of the riders coming into the turns, and it was obvious the riders were braking hard prior to the turn. The winner of this particular race -- he won by something like 5 seconds over the second place finisher -- was seen to pull a small "stoppie" braking into a curve.

I'm not a racing expert ... but it seems the key to those races is braking ability into the curves, ability to hold the tire contact in the curves, and acceleration out of the curves. All that is way above my skill level.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: boraticus


Maybe it's time you read what most of the participants of this forum are saying, rather than reading Hollywood brand oil labels and propaganda.

Show me any manufacturer that does not recommend their own brand in preference to others. Also, show me one manufacturer that says "do not use HDEOs.

You can say what you like about the Hollywood brands. However, when you mislead participants into thinking that the HDEO's aren't good for motorcycles and ATVs I feel it's necessary to challenge your uniformed comments.


Ducati recommended Shell Advance lubricants for the GT1000 in the owner manual. Ducati does not have its own brand and I don't see Rotella or HDEO any where in the manual.

Maybe it's time you read what all of the oil manufacturers and motorcycle makers are saying, rather than reading internet oil labels and propaganda. HDEO will work but it is not the best for motorcycle. I have said it before and I will repeat here for you: go to any professionally sanctioned races and you will not see HDEO or diesel oil in the winner circle. If you are just putting around on your bike then any thing will work, including car oil.


Soooooo, whose racing? I don't see anyone asking for oil advice for their Moto GP or Moto Cross bikes. Do you?

Do think that Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD or Kawasaki branded oils are good for motorcycles? It's been proven on this forum and elsewhere that they're not as good as HDEOs. That kind of takes the support from your position. Wouldn't you think?

You're missing the point.

We don't need to spend $12.00 for a quart of oil when perfectly suitable oil is available for a fraction of the price. I find it objectionable that you would insinuate that HDEOs aren't good for motorcycles. You are flat wrong in that regard. You can continue to make donations to the designer oil manufacturer of your choice. I'll spend my money on other things. Like more motorcycles.

By the way, as I've said earlier, I've got thirty years of motorcycling experience with NUMEROUS machines. I was working on motorcycles twenty years before there was internet. My knowledge is gained from experience. Not oil bottle Labels or Hollywood oil propaganda.


I've never had an oil related problem and two of my machines were air cooled and flogged hard for well over 20 years before I sold them. They're twenty five years old now and still running well with their new owners.

I own eight motorcycles as well as two liquid cooled ATVs and tons of other small engined machines. I build motorcycles for a hobby and I don't settle for mediocrity. I think I've been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't. What are your qualifications?

In your mind, how many hundred years should an engine last to prove that HDEOs are perfectly fine for motorcycle engines? If I get that kind of performance with a good quality inexpensive HDEO, why would I spend several times more for Hollywood oil?

Over the years, I learned that some people see the light early on in their lives. On the other hand, some don't even know there's a light to be seen. This message isn't so much for you. It's too late for that. It's for those who are willing to accept logical advice from experienced motorcyclists about what is a good oil for motorcycles. HDEOs are perfectly fine.
 
Boraticus, I'm liking you more and more
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 47HO
I saw that race. I believe it was at Monza.

That's it!

Those guys are nuts. I couldn't do that stuff to save my life.

But I will say this ... based on what I saw, I can see how such racing would be the very limits of abuse on the bike and the lubrication within the engine. It's not so much the flat-out high RPMs for long durations ... it's the slamming on of RPMs coming out of the curves, over and over again throughout the race.

And I would imagine those guys are shifting the you-know-what out of those bikes throughout the race.

So ... cranking on the RPMs, shifting all the time, slamming on of brakes, rinse, lather, repeat.

My guess is an HDEO would probably survive that for a race ... and has been said, they dump the oil nearly every race, so extended OCIs doesn't really apply.

What's not clear is whether the weight of the HDEO would rob the bike of a fractional bit of horsepower. Someone said they typically run low-weight racing oils ... 0W-20? ... with the full understanding it may not be providing optimum protection, but it may be maximizing power for that race duration.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: 47HO
I saw that race. I believe it was at Monza.

That's it!

Those guys are nuts. I couldn't do that stuff to save my life.

But I will say this ... based on what I saw, I can see how such racing would be the very limits of abuse on the bike and the lubrication within the engine. It's not so much the flat-out high RPMs for long durations ... it's the slamming on of RPMs coming out of the curves, over and over again throughout the race.

And I would imagine those guys are shifting the you-know-what out of those bikes throughout the race.

So ... cranking on the RPMs, shifting all the time, slamming on of brakes, rinse, lather, repeat.

My guess is an HDEO would probably survive that for a race ... and has been said, they dump the oil nearly every race, so extended OCIs doesn't really apply.

What's not clear is whether the weight of the HDEO would rob the bike of a fractional bit of horsepower. Someone said they typically run low-weight racing oils ... 0W-20? ... with the full understanding it may not be providing optimum protection, but it may be maximizing power for that race duration.


Believe it or not, power is generally not an issue with modern race bikes. All make more than enough power to be competitive. The key to motorcycle racing success is hooking up all that power to the track. Power delivery is more critical than absolute available power. In line four cylinder race bikes make very abrupt power when the throttle is applied while exiting a turn. This often leads to wheel spin and not gaining the forward motion due to loss of traction. Ducati and other big twins running against the fours are usually given a substantial displacement advantage to be competitive with the in line fours. The configuration of the twin and larger displacement provide a more linear torque curve than the four cylinder engines which makes them relatively easier to manage when rolling on the throttle out of a corner. As a rule, if all other aspects are equal, the twins will win in the corners where the fours will eat up the straights. It takes a very skilled rider to master either of the race bike configurations. You can pretty much bet that the guys running the peaky powerful fours will be working harder to win than the guys on well set up twins. However, it takes a very well set twin and a very good rider to consistently win.

What I find neat about the races with twins vs. fours is the different sounds. Wailing fours and bellowing twins make for quite an entertaining cacophony.
 
The guy doing the stoppie slowing for the turn was/is American Ben Spies, on a Yamaha R1. A great rider. So, is Mobil 1 15/50 Auto a good oil to use in my relatively low revving speed Triple? It hasn't blown up yet, and seems to be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Redline955
So, is Mobil 1 15/50 Auto a good oil to use in my relatively low revving speed Triple? It hasn't blown up yet, and seems to be fine.

Are you talking silver cap or gold EP cap?? no matter tho either would work just fine in your application,no worries,,ride on.
thumbsup2.gif
 
I am using the silver cap. Triumph has it's own badged Mobil 1 15/50 4T, but it' over 50 bucks for 4 liters. It can't be that much better. I change my oil between 3 and 5,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus


Soooooo, whose racing? I don't see anyone asking for oil advice for their Moto GP or Moto Cross bikes. Do you?

Do think that Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD or Kawasaki branded oils are good for motorcycles? It's been proven on this forum and elsewhere that they're not as good as HDEOs. That kind of takes the support from your position. Wouldn't you think?

You're missing the point.

We don't need to spend $12.00 for a quart of oil when perfectly suitable oil is available for a fraction of the price. I find it objectionable that you would insinuate that HDEOs aren't good for motorcycles. You are flat wrong in that regard. You can continue to make donations to the designer oil manufacturer of your choice. I'll spend my money on other things. Like more motorcycles.

By the way, as I've said earlier, I've got thirty years of motorcycling experience with NUMEROUS machines. I was working on motorcycles twenty years before there was internet. My knowledge is gained from experience. Not oil bottle Labels or Hollywood oil propaganda.


I've never had an oil related problem and two of my machines were air cooled and flogged hard for well over 20 years before I sold them. They're twenty five years old now and still running well with their new owners.

I own eight motorcycles as well as two liquid cooled ATVs and tons of other small engined machines. I build motorcycles for a hobby and I don't settle for mediocrity. I think I've been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't. What are your qualifications?

In your mind, how many hundred years should an engine last to prove that HDEOs are perfectly fine for motorcycle engines? If I get that kind of performance with a good quality inexpensive HDEO, why would I spend several times more for Hollywood oil?

Over the years, I learned that some people see the light early on in their lives. On the other hand, some don't even know there's a light to be seen. This message isn't so much for you. It's too late for that. It's for those who are willing to accept logical advice from experienced motorcyclists about what is a good oil for motorcycles. HDEOs are perfectly fine.


I don't take advises from joe blow with a handful of bikes and some backyard mechanic skill, especially from the internet. I listen to oil manufacturers and bike makers because their experiences are many orders of magnitude of everyone on this board put together. Nothing is really proven on this forum since most if not all information are second hand and are not scientifically documented and verified. Oil manufacturers and bike makers tested their products in the lab and at the race track at the performance envelope. Your experiences tell me nothing about the oil nor the bike. The original question was what is the best oil for the bike and not what is fine according to joe blow nor what is the most economical nor can HDEO be used in a bike. The best oil for motorcycle is still motorcycle oil per the makers of the motorcycle. You do not get a pass on a warranty claim if you use something else that was not recommended. Which motorcycle oil is the best is another matter and I am not going there.

I can kill a deer with either my car or a rifle. I use a rifle because it was specifically designed for the job.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I have said it before and I will repeat here for you: go to any professionally sanctioned races and you will not see HDEO or diesel oil in the winner circle.

That may well be true, but it does not prove the inability of HDEOs to hold up well under even stressful conditions.


If HDEO were the same or better wouldn't you think they use it instead? These winners do this for a living and they choose not to use HDEO for a reason.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I have said it before and I will repeat here for you: go to any professionally sanctioned races and you will not see HDEO or diesel oil in the winner circle.
That may well be true, but it does not prove the inability of HDEOs to hold up well under even stressful conditions.
If HDEO were the same or better wouldn't you think they use it instead? These winners do this for a living and they choose not to use HDEO for a reason.

C'mon ... my assertion was that HDEOs hold up under stressful conditions.

I did not say, nor have I ever said, that HDEOs are the very best oil for world class professional racing.

Besides, your logic is specious. You argue that the the lack of apparent use in racing is proof positive of its inferiority. All it proves is that by your reckoning it's not seen in racing circles.

You seem to have an inability to function on this topic in a civil and adult manner. You resort to name calling and belittling comments. My guess is you're compensating for something, but I won't speculate what.

Have a good life.
 
HDEO hold up under stressful conditions in a car or truck engine, yes. In a motorcycle, may be or may be not. I do not see any thing from any oil manufacturers or bike makers that said otherwise.

The lack of use in racing is because it is not "designed" to be used in racing nor for a motorcycle engine. Do you have any proof that it is or is it just your opinion? Also, I don't label poster as an Amsoil dealer like you do when you are losing in a debate.
 
axsynthetic, I think that you're one of those people who argue for the sake of arguing, whether your point is correct or not. There are guys on other forums who have run non synthetic auto oil in bikes with over 200,000 miles. What makes you an expert anyway? There is no magic ingredient in M/C oil. Just a magic increase in price.
 
I do not claim to be an expert like others on this board. I point out facts from motorycle makers and oil manufacturers that HDEO is not recommended over motorcycle oil. I don't know all the ingredients in motorcycle oil but not all motorcycle oils are a higher price car oil or HDEO oil. Shell as a maker of Rotella does not recommend it for motorcycle then why does anyone think they know better than Shell?
 
Of course companies producing motorcycle oil are going to say that their product is superior. But there are a lot of real world, high mileage motorcycle owners out there who have never used motorcycle oil, who have had no problems. I bought my bike new in '01 and bought the 50 dollar 4 liter jug for a few changes. Then I started doing research, and am convinced that the Auto 15/50 Mobil 1 at half the price will do the job just as well, with the relatively low mileage changes that I do. I think oil threads are the most contentiously debated out of all the other motorcycle related subjects. I will take real world riders experience over any factory's controlled tests anytime.
 
Go to http://www.rotella.com.

Click on the "Ask our expert" link.

Click on "Submit a Question"

Click on "FAQ by Topic"

Select "Motorcycles" topic.

Read Shell recommending Rotella for motorcycles.

I'll preempt the counter-argument ... yes, I know they are not saying it is "superior to motorcycle oil." Yes, I know they are not citing specific usage in world class racing. Yes, I know they do not admit to showing up in MotoGP winner circles.

But they do recommend Rotella for motorcycles.

And by the way, I did not label you an Amsoil rep. I simply pointed out the similarity between your screen name and the Amsoil site with the exact same name, and asked if it was coincidence.

I have never -- not here, not anywhere -- labeled anyone a "wannabe" racer, or a "joe blow with a handful of bikes and some backyard mechanic skill."
 
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