Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula.

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Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: Billy007
Use Mobil 1 with confidence. What I like about Mobil 1 is the ease to find their Specifications and Approvals for any oil they sell. Your engine will live a long life if you choose either product. But if Mobil 1 is cheaper, go with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 229.31/229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel) 504.00 / 507.00
Peugeot Citroen Automobiles E06-N3 / D06-N3



Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 72.8
cSt @ 100ºC 12.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC, ASTM D4683 3.58
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 254
Density @ 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

Those are the UK specs for Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which is different than the US Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 according to the US website:

Specifications and Approvals

Mobil 1 Extended Performance meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
5W-30
ILSAC GF-4
API SM,SL,SJ,SH/CF
ACEA A1,B1,A5,B5

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30

Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 61
cSt @ 100º C 11.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 169
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.1
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -48
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 230
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.86

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp

Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5
 
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Originally Posted By: manus
Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5

Mobil 1 ESP and Mobil 1 EP are two different products. The ESP product is much more expensive than EP and I believe it only comes in liter bottles (not quarts) becasue it is normally for outside the USA.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: manus
Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5

Mobil 1 ESP and Mobil 1 EP are two different products. The ESP product is much more expensive than EP and I believe it only comes in liter bottles (not quarts) becasue it is normally for outside the USA.

Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.
 
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Originally Posted By: manus
Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.

I found one company that had some Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP for sale in the USA. I don't know where they got it, but it was packaged by the liter (not the quart), which is very unusual for the USA market. It is specifically formulated for the latest VW TDI specification. They were selling it at about USD $8.45 per liter (not including shipping), which they claimed was a discount from the normal price by about 50%. Shipping for a case of 12 is about $15-20 based on distance from Indiana.
http://www.avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html

According to Mobil 1 USA website, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-40 is not available at retail outlets in the USA, but can be purchased at Mercedes Benz dealers.

Based on the specs of the ESP, it looks like it probably uses 100% PAO stock (or close to it) not including any additives. It is my understanding from reading the Mobil 1 website, that the neither regular Mobil 1 or EP as sold in the US are 100% PAO, but they both have some PAO stock in them.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
You get Amsoil there but not Pennzoil?
It's because the Pennzoil and Quaker State brands were acquired by the Shell Oil Co. Shell wanted to market their products under names that have a long standing reputation with the North American consumer. In Europe, the names don't mean anything to the average consumer, while Shell has been a standard bearer for decades.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: manus
Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.

I found one company that had some Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP for sale in the USA. I don't know where they got it, but it was packaged by the liter (not the quart), which is very unusual for the USA market. It is specifically formulated for the latest VW TDI specification. They were selling it at about USD $8.45 per liter (not including shipping), which they claimed was a discount from the normal price by about 50%. Shipping for a case of 12 is about $15-20 based on distance from Indiana.
http://www.avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html

According to Mobil 1 USA website, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-40 is not available at retail outlets in the USA, but can be purchased at Mercedes Benz dealers.

Based on the specs of the ESP, it looks like it probably uses 100% PAO stock (or close to it) not including any additives. It is my understanding from reading the Mobil 1 website, that the neither regular Mobil 1 or EP as sold in the US are 100% PAO, but they both have some PAO stock in them.

Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!
 
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Originally Posted By: manus
Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!

PAO is a Group IV synthetic base stock called Polyalphaolefin that was used to make synthetic oils. However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit, and hence forth companies which use Group III base stocks are allowed to call their oil synthetic in the USA (but not in all countries). Many synthetic oils sold in the USA have both Group III and PAO Group IV stocks, but it is difficult to find out how much is Base III and how much is PAO Base IV (or above) is actually in any particular oil. It is my understanding that in the EU, an oil sold as synthetic must be Group IV or above, hence you have M1 ESP and we don't.

I am sure that I didn't get this 100% correct, and others will correct my errors.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: manus
Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!

PAO is a Group IV synthetic base stock called Polyalphaolefin that was used to make synthetic oils. However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit, and hence forth companies which use Group III base stocks are allowed to call their oil synthetic in the USA (but not in all countries). Many synthetic oils sold in the USA have both Group III and PAO Group IV stocks, but it is difficult to find out how much is Base III and how much is PAO Base IV (or above) is actually in any particular oil. It is my understanding that in the EU, an oil sold as synthetic must be Group IV or above, hence you have M1 ESP and we don't.

I am sure that I didn't get this 100% correct, and others will correct my errors.


So many myths perpetrated in this post it will take some time to refute them all.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit...

It wasn't a lawsuit...

Read this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1200648
Originally Posted By: Johnny
One thing that needs to be cleared up is, there is no U.S. law on this subject. This never went to a court of law and a judge or court of law did not rule on this issue.

The original complaint from Mobil was taken before an arbitration board of the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). They are the ones that said Castrol could call Group III sythetic.


And this post from Drivebelt in the same thread:
Originally Posted By: Drivebelt
Synthetic is purely an advertising term. That's why the complaint by Mobil was taken to the NAD (National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus). Mobil essentially claimed it was false advertising. Castrol presented their evidence, and the body ruled that advertising Group III's as synthetic was reasonable given the process on how they were made. None of the oil specification bodies (API, ILSAC, ACEA) got involved in the issue.

Even though Group III's are commonly referred to as highly-refined, it's a very loose use of the term highly-refined. Hydrocracking is both a refining and a chemical engineering process. Unfortunately, the common referral on the web to GIII's in this manner misleads people into thinking that hydrocracking is only a refining process in the traditional sense that Group I's are made.

Given that synthetic is just an advertising term (with no specific technical requirement laid out by any of the oil specification bodies). It's purely up to the oil manufacturer if they want to market a Group III as synthetic (unless the country has specific laws relating to what can and cannot be advertised as synthetic). One could sell a Group III based oil and not advertise it as synthetic at all. One could market it as a semi-synthetic -- or even a synthetic, or even just as a high-performance oil.
 
Originally Posted By: AndyH
It wasn't a lawsuit...

One post you quoted said it was the NAD (National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus). Another post you quoted said it was the FTC, which is a regulatory body of the Federal Government. My understanding is that it was the latter, but I don't know for sure.

I think that it is nitpicking as to whether it a complaint filed with the FTC is considered a lawsuit or not. For most practical purposes, there is not much of a distinction between a regulation and a law.

The guy wanted to know what PAO was, no one answered, so I tried to help him out.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: manus
Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!

PAO is a Group IV synthetic base stock called Polyalphaolefin that was used to make synthetic oils. However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit, and hence forth companies which use Group III base stocks are allowed to call their oil synthetic in the USA (but not in all countries). Many synthetic oils sold in the USA have both Group III and PAO Group IV stocks, but it is difficult to find out how much is Base III and how much is PAO Base IV (or above) is actually in any particular oil. It is my understanding that in the EU, an oil sold as synthetic must be Group IV or above, hence you have M1 ESP and we don't.

I am sure that I didn't get this 100% correct, and others will correct my errors.

Thanks mark, very interesting, now I understand.
 
Some of you have done to analyze the Royal Purple 5w30 after 9000 miles? I am curious to know the values of the analysis.
I did a search but can not find anything.
 
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