Wix vs. PureOne - Flow Restriction

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I always wondered why I only socially drank.
The price of enlightenment
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Turbulent mixing and vorticity are where it gets really interesting and scary. As my professor always said "'Tis so simple."

It was fun to finish the homework in that class and then crack open a few barley pops/sodas.
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The bypass valve limits the max resistance that the filter can present to the supply in the relief event.

Two important distinctions:

The bypass valve is there to prevent oil starvation to the engine during pump relief events.

The bypass valve setting is there to limit stress on the media (some exceptions apply).


As I showed in my original post, the Purolator PureOne has the by-pass relief valve set somewhat higher than the WIX/NAPA filter for the same car application.

To me, this means a few things:
A) The Purolator's media can take more delta pressure across it.
B) The Purolator is probably more restrictive (due to it's higher filtering capability). Purolator has set the by-pass valve at a higher setting so the added flow resistance doesn't trigger unwarranted by-pass events.
C) There should be less by-pass (unfiltered oil) events occurring on the PureOne, unless the added by-pass relief setting (6~7 psi over the WIX) is lost due to the added flow restriction.

If the by-pass relief setting is not matched to the flow restriction characteristics of the filter, then the by-pass will obviously open much more than it really should.

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa

I've heard that the PureOne filter efficiency is very high, and as such, may mean that it is also somewhat restrictive to oil flow.

I was looking at the following by-pass relief valve specs for the two oil filters for my car's application:

WIX 51356 (same as NAPA Gold 1356) spec says: 8-11 psi.

Purolator PL14610 spec says: 14-18 psi.
(The regular Purolator L14610 has the same spec, even though the regular L14610 doesn't have the higher filter efficiency.
 
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Forgot to ask ... has anyone seen filtering beta data for the PureOne? I'm sure it's good, but I'd like to see numbers if there are out there.
 
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Originally Posted By: Steve S
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/86056-oil-filter-study.html A bit of info to get a general idea.


In Post #11 of the above link, they analyze the PureOne as follows:

-----------------------
Purolator PureOne PL34631

Cost $4.99 -- Meijer
ADBV material: Silicon
Spring type: leaf
Intake area: 0.440 sq/in (12 of 12)
Filter area: 330 sq/in; 62 pleats (10 of 12)
Total Weight: 470 grams (10 of 12)
Filter and endcap weight: 5 oz (5-10 of 12)
Physical Rating: 31 (11 of 12)
Average pore size: 24 µm (12 of 12)
Smallest pore size: 11 µm (12 of 12)

Oil flow @ 10psi: 4.7 oz per minute (2 of 12)
-----------------------

Flow at 10 psi is only 4.7 oz per minute ... this equates to only 0.0367 GPM (128 oz/gal), which is a trickle! I highly suspect this data. It doesn't say what viscosity the oil was at, but the ACDelco chart says the oil temp was 5W-30 at 34 deg F, so pretty viscous I'd think.

This isn't even close to the ACDelco "Flow vs. Pressure" chart shown on page 1 of this thread.

Something doesn't add up.

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak

pi_filt_oil_gold_coldoil_thumb.jpg
 
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(pinching bridge of nose with head slightly down - glasses off)


(sigh)

G’Kar is lecturing his followers on the evils of being too serious, as if that will prove that they are better than everyone else, more enlightened. They can’t be free until they learn to laugh at themselves, and from laughter comes wisdom. G’Kar asks for the next question. A follower throws a couple of big ones at him:

Narn: “What is truth? And what is God?”

G’Kar: “You don’t really want an answer to that question.”

Narn: “Yes, I do. Please.”

G’Kar: “If I take a lamp and shine it toward a wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search. It is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it.”

The followers are not following this at all. G’Kar has them all confounded. Dr. Franklin stands in the background smiling at their confusion.

G’Kar: “Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him…sees nothing. (He sighs in frustration) What we perceive as God is the byproduct of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished, not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do. Or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty…and all its flaws…and in so doing better understand the world around us.”

Narn: “Ah…yes…but… What is truth? And what is God?”

G’Kar laughs. At this rate, they’re never going to get it. This time G’Kar answers more simply.

G’Kar: “Truth is a river, and God is the mouth of the river.”

The room is filled with murmurs of understanding. Franklin smiles and gives G’Kar a sympathetic shrug.
 
2004 test at http://www.offshoreonly.com...I understand that they changed several things with Pure One since then... I guess it will alway be an argument my brand is better than yours because.....

That test rated
Fram Oil flow @ 10psi: 4.0 oz per minute
Wix Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
K&N Oil flow @ 10psi: 13.2 oz per minute (that is basically a M1)


But remember that was outboard motor oil filters...
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


Narn: “Ah…yes…but… What is truth? And what is God?”

G’Kar laughs. At this rate, they’re never going to get it. This time G’Kar answers more simply.

G’Kar: “Truth is a river, and God is the mouth of the river.”

The room is filled with murmurs of understanding. Franklin smiles and gives G’Kar a sympathetic shrug.


You can measure pressure, flow rate, delta pressure, filtration efficiency, etc ... but you can't measure God.
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Originally Posted By: mimelio
2004 test at http://www.offshoreonly.com...I understand that they changed several things with Pure One since then... I guess it will alway be an argument my brand is better than yours because.....

That test rated
Fram Oil flow @ 10psi: 4.0 oz per minute
Wix Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
K&N Oil flow @ 10psi: 13.2 oz per minute (that is basically a M1)

But remember that was outboard motor oil filters...


I remember this filter study ... the flow rate numbers were all ridiculously low for most of the filters tested. I emailed ACDelco because their Ultragaurd was in the mix. Their response was that the testing was flawed. I believe it. A motor would fry itself if it only received a few ounces of oil per minute flow rate at a delta P across the filter where most will start going into by-pass mode.

WIX rates its 51356 (same as NAPA 1356) filter for instance at 7 to 9 GPM, but doesn't stipulate at what delta P or oil viscosity - I'm assuming at a delta P less than the by-pass valve setting of 11 psi (max) - or it could be at 50 PSID as shown in the ACDelco chart. Maybe there is some ridiculously high PSID that these filter manufactured rate the flow rate at to make them look good.(?) At any rate, it's a far cry from 5.3 oz/min. LOL.
 
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WIX 51086 (small canister) @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
WIX 51060 (larger canitser)@ 10psi: 8.1 oz per minute
 
Originally Posted By: mimelio
WIX 51086 (small canister) @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
WIX 51060 (larger canitser)@ 10psi: 8.1 oz per minute


Who's test data is that? ... certainly not WIX's. Whoever did these flow tests where they are quoting a few ounces of oil per minute at 10 psi across the filter isn't telling the whole story IMO.

Wix 51060 - Max flow 9 to 11 GPM
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51060

8.1 oz/min = 0.0632 GPM, or 0.56% (0.56 of 1%) of the max rated flow of 11 GPM. It has to flow more than that with 10 PSID across it. What's wrong with this picture?
wink.gif


How about the Racing version ... 28 GPM.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51060R
 
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Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
I remember this filter study ... the flow rate numbers were all ridiculously low for most of the filters tested. I emailed ACDelco because their Ultragaurd was in the mix. Their response was that the testing was flawed. I believe it. A motor would fry itself if it only received a few ounces of oil per minute flow rate at a delta P across the filter where most will start going into by-pass mode.


I think it's 10psi inlet pressure, not differential pressure. 10psi is very low. A healthy engine usually has 3-9 times that much pressure, and is using a thinner fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: mimelio
2004 test at http://www.offshoreonly.com...I understand that they changed several things with Pure One since then... I guess it will alway be an argument my brand is better than yours because.....

That test rated
Fram Oil flow @ 10psi: 4.0 oz per minute
Wix Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
K&N Oil flow @ 10psi: 13.2 oz per minute (that is basically a M1)

But remember that was outboard motor oil filters...


I remember this filter study ... the flow rate numbers were all ridiculously low for most of the filters tested. I emailed ACDelco because their Ultragaurd was in the mix. Their response was that the testing was flawed. I believe it. A motor would fry itself if it only received a few ounces of oil per minute flow rate at a delta P across the filter where most will start going into by-pass mode.

WIX rates its 51356 (same as NAPA 1356) filter for instance at 7 to 9 GPM, but doesn't stipulate at what delta P or oil viscosity - I'm assuming at a delta P less than the by-pass valve setting of 11 psi (max) - or it could be at 50 PSID as shown in the ACDelco chart. Maybe there is some ridiculously high PSID that these filter manufactured rate the flow rate at to make them look good.(?) At any rate, it's a far cry from 5.3 oz/min. LOL.

Exactly the box NEVER mentioned any thing rather than 7 to 9 GPM ..
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
I remember this filter study ... the flow rate numbers were all ridiculously low for most of the filters tested. I emailed ACDelco because their Ultragaurd was in the mix. Their response was that the testing was flawed. I believe it. A motor would fry itself if it only received a few ounces of oil per minute flow rate at a delta P across the filter where most will start going into by-pass mode.


I think it's 10psi inlet pressure, not differential pressure. 10psi is very low. A healthy engine usually has 3-9 times that much pressure, and is using a thinner fluid.


It's both. It's just that the applied pressure is into zero pressure.

It's obvious that I've failed (see later)
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Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: mimelio
WIX 51086 (small canister) @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute
WIX 51060 (larger canitser)@ 10psi: 8.1 oz per minute


Who's test data is that? ... certainly not WIX's. Whoever did these flow tests where they are quoting a few ounces of oil per minute at 10 psi across the filter isn't telling the whole story IMO.

Wix 51060 - Max flow 9 to 11 GPM
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51060

8.1 oz/min = 0.0632 GPM, or 0.56% (0.56 of 1%) of the max rated flow of 11 GPM. It has to flow more than that with 10 PSID across it. What's wrong with this picture?
wink.gif


How about the Racing version ... 28 GPM.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51060R


Truth is the river ..and GOD is the mouth of the river...

Quote:
Who's test data is that? ... certainly not WIX's. Whoever did these flow tests where they are quoting a few ounces of oil per minute at 10 psi across the filter isn't telling the whole story IMO.


You're interpreting it incorrectly. This has no bearing whatsoever on "flow potential" of the filter. It merely states what a swatch of the media produced in flow when 10 psi was applied. It's for comparative purposes only ...and..again..has little meaning in an operational engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
SuperBusa said:
Quote:
Who's test data is that? ... certainly not WIX's. Whoever did these flow tests where they are quoting a few ounces of oil per minute at 10 psi across the filter isn't telling the whole story IMO.


You're interpreting it incorrectly. This has no bearing whatsoever on "flow potential" of the filter. It merely states what a swatch of the media produced in flow when 10 psi was applied. It's for comparative purposes only ...and..again..has little meaning in an operational engine.


If it was for "comparison purposes only" and all test filters were "normalized" then it might be somewhat useful. If the flow data was not extrapolated to determine flow over the entire element area then it's useless IMO as each filter has a somewhat different flow area.

The only right way to determine flow vs. delta P across the filter assembly is to do the test on an actual filter assembly ... not a little "swatch" of filtering media. That's Mickey mouse. There are other factors to how a filter flows as an assembly, such as the inlet/outlet holes, anti-drain valve, holes in the center core section, pleat design, etc, etc.

If I had to believe anyone’s flow vs. PSID data, it would have to be the ACDelco chart, as I believe they actually mounted a whole filter assy into a test machine to obtain that data.

And BTW ... a 10 PSI differential is a 10 PSI differential regardless of what the inlet and outlet pressures are as long as there is 10 psi difference between them. A filter should flow the same with a 10 psi inlet and 0 psi outlet, or with a 310 psi inlet and a 300 psi outlet. Both constitute a 10 psi delta, which is the driving force that caused flow through the filter.
 
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Quote:
The only right way to determine flow vs. delta P across the filter assembly is to do the test on an actual filter assembly ... not a little "swatch" of filtering media. That's Mickey mouse.


Tell that to most of the filter industry. Swatches are common testing samples taken to rate a given media at the end of production. I worked for a time at an air/water media (small) manufacturer. 30' wide "blankets" of spun and needle boarded material. You cut a swatch out and put it on the flow bench and rate that run.

Again, it's for comparative purposes only. For that matter, so is the rating for a filter.

If you see ^P @ 10gpm 150SSU= 4 PSID ..what would it mean to you ..if you were able to integrate that your engine most likely is peaked @ 5gpm @ 3500 rpm? That is, IF you could pump 10 gpm out of you oil pump, you would be so slammed up against the relief (unless you ran water) that it would make the "absolute value" of the data totally useless.

It too is "for comparative purposes only" and needs to be massaged for the application in question for worth.

Quote:
And BTW ... a 10 PSI differential is a 10 PSI differential regardless of what the inlet and outlet pressures are as long as there is 10 psi difference between them. A filter should flow the same with a 10 psi inlet and 0 psi outlet, or with a 310 psi inlet and a 300 psi outlet. Both constitute a 10 psi delta, which is the driving force that caused flow through the filter.


Agreed. It is however different that pushing a given flow through a media and registering the PSID. This more accurately mimics what occurs in your engine.

Quote:
There are other factors to how a filter flows as an assembly, such as the inlet/outlet holes, anti-drain valve, holes in the center core section, pleat design, etc, etc.


That are fractionally marginal (is that redundant?) in the full scheme of the fluid circuit.

Take a 20' diameter aquaduct. Make it 100' long. At the 50' span place a partition and with a 6" port in the center. Big choke, right? It will REALLY alter flow, right? BIG RESTRICTION, right?...

..until you figure out that the 100' mark has only a .5" outlet. Then how much does the intermediate choke impede flow?


200px-Maleficent.jpg


Maleficent: ..and all this time ..they've been looking for a baby.


Next!
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
The only right way to determine flow vs. delta P across the filter assembly is to do the test on an actual filter assembly ... not a little "swatch" of filtering media. That's Mickey mouse.


Tell that to most of the filter industry. Swatches are common testing samples taken to rate a given media at the end of production. I worked for a time at an air/water media (small) manufacturer. 30' wide "blankets" of spun and needle boarded material. You cut a swatch out and put it on the flow bench and rate that run.

Again, it's for comparative purposes only. For that matter, so is the rating for a filter.


That's all fine and dandy, but like I said earlier if the swatch flow was extrapolated for a given filter then it would make better sense. What you were doing was just ensuring the filtering media met it's spec for flow.

If say a 1 inch swatch flowed 4.3 oz/min at 10 psid, then it would be logical to say that a filter assy made with the same media with a total filtering area of 300 sq-in would flow ~ 10.1 GPM of the same fluid at the same viscosity and delta P.

This is the exact reason I like to chose the "long filter" option if there is one for my particular application. It ensures better flow, less delta P and more filtering area. These manufacturers that keep on shrinking the filter area out to be hung out to dry.
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
If you see ^P @ 10gpm 150SSU= 4 PSID ..what would it mean to you ..if you were able to integrate that your engine most likely is peaked @ 5gpm @ 3500 rpm?


I'd say that filter had a fairly low restriction to flow. In order to flow 10 gpm with only a 4 psid says it's not very restrictive to flow.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That is, IF you could pump 10 gpm out of you oil pump, you would be so slammed up against the relief (unless you ran water) that it would make the "absolute value" of the data totally useless.


If you could get 10 gpm out of an oil pump, then that particular filter example you gave would only have a 4 psid across it ... which is well below any by-pass valve setting that I know of, so it really wouldn't be "slammed up against the relief".

I'm sure there are some oil pumps that can put out near 10 gpm at high RPM. Obviously, there is a reason the racers use a "race filter" since they can flow around 30 gpm.
 
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