Even if it drops a transmission its still worth fixing IMO, because you can't buy a car for $2/3K that you know was cared for and you know what the odds are with the other parts etc.
GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008
- Thread starter javacontour
- Start date
- Status
This whole thread will be useless in the near future when the US auto companys fail, and we all benefit from driving foreign vehicles. Bailout money just stops the bleeding, it cant cure the terminal disease detroit has infected itself with in the long term.
Purchasing an American car is like having unprotected sex with HIV infected partners.....you may get extremely lucky once or twice,but sooner or later you get burned, and it is always a gamble!
Purchasing an American car is like having unprotected sex with HIV infected partners.....you may get extremely lucky once or twice,but sooner or later you get burned, and it is always a gamble!
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I agree with stevie that the santa fe is a good vehicle, it has to be because most of it is now made in the United States at Hyundai motors of America L.L.C. and santa fe's continue rolling off the assembly line in Montgomery Alabama..
Of course it was designed at the hyundai design center in Irvine California which of course is also in America.. Come to think of it its an American car.. I guess that is why they have such good Warrantee's
Of course it was designed at the hyundai design center in Irvine California which of course is also in America.. Come to think of it its an American car.. I guess that is why they have such good Warrantee's
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.
Yes this is, and I can't believe I am participating in it.
Just for S**** and giggles, I will post everyone in my immediate family's rides since I do all the maintenance and repairs for them. I will also post the past cars since a lot are new right now.
2009 G8 GT 3k miles - bought new, no issues
2008 Saturn Aura 12k miles - bought new, no issues
2007 Hyundai Tucson 30k miles - bought new, no issues
2004 Nissan Maxima 30k miles - bought new, sunroof died, Mom said don't bother trying to fix it she doesn't use it. Rotors warped at 30k
2000 Ford Ranger 2.5L 140k miles - bought with 15k on the odo. at 85k the speed sensor went out $30. 90k the battery had a ton of corrosion on it and tested ok, but decided to change it anyway $60. Alternator at 120k $130. Sway bar links at 130k $25. BTW this has the original clutch and timing belt on it, I am wondering how long these will last. I really should change that belt out.
1998 Chrysler Cirrus 36k miles - bought new. First repair last summer. Evaporator had been leaking for a year or two and put it off, just kept topping it off with 134a. until Grandma hit a curb and cracked the condensor. Had to have a tow truck come and lift the car off. Had both the evaporator and condensor replaced to the tune of $1200! This was a biggie. I really think the evaporator was a design defect but the condensor was clearly an accident.
Past cars -
2005 Cobalt, owned until 36k. Had an airleak in the rear window, fixed under warranty, good car.
2005 Acura TL owned until 58k. Power steering pump went out after the warranty, the right side mirror that used to lower itself slightly while in reverse, decided to continue to keep lowering itself for a minute or two after you left reverse causing it to klack, klack, klack annoyingly. Several bulbs burned out on the dash. Nothing terrible though, it was a decent car.
2002 Elantra 100k miles. - Under warranty the windshield wasn't sealed properly, it leaked pretty bad causing the carpet to get moldy. Had to really fight Hyundai to fix this problem, they resealed the windshield but didn't want to replace the carpet. Finally got them to, and the windshield then developed a stress crack, which they refused to replace. The exhaust manifold cracked and was replaced under warranty. The ignition coil failed and the car had to be towed, also replaced under warranty. Out of warranty a battery $60, and a sensor that I never really was told exactly what it was that my brother had repaired by the dealer which I remember him complaining cost about $300. This was a decent car.
2000 Acura TL 100k miles - This car was a real piece of c***. The blower motor went out $200, the rearview mirror actually leaked a fluid out onto the shifter which melted the silver gated trim, the transmission went out $3200, sunroof went and never fixed that, power window motor $250, cam seal $400, ac compressor $950. There were also several quirks that were never fixed, like the sticky throttle body that caused the gas pedal to not want to be pushed. This car finally got totaled and put out of it's misery when it was rear ended and pushed into 2 other cars. No one was hurt though including the siberian husky riding in the back seat!
Other good cars we owned included:
2000 Grand Cherokee
1998 Plymouth Breeze
1997 Grand Cherokee
1995 Dodge Neon - 2 actually
1991 Plymouth Acclaim
1988 Chevy Astro
1988 Chevy 1500 Pickup
1988 Plymouth Reliant
1986 Plymouth Reliant
1986 Honda Accord
1984 Honda Accord
1983 Plymouth Reliant
[censored] cars -
1990 Chevy Lumina - in 36k miles it went through 3 computers, rear calipers, a dogbone, alternator, rear struts. Car was a real piece of [censored]. It did drive nice though!
1981 Chevy Citation - Dad says it went through 3 heater cores? I was young I barely remember but I think it was a headache.
Thats as far back as I remember.
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.
Yes this is, and I can't believe I am participating in it.
Just for S**** and giggles, I will post everyone in my immediate family's rides since I do all the maintenance and repairs for them. I will also post the past cars since a lot are new right now.
2009 G8 GT 3k miles - bought new, no issues
2008 Saturn Aura 12k miles - bought new, no issues
2007 Hyundai Tucson 30k miles - bought new, no issues
2004 Nissan Maxima 30k miles - bought new, sunroof died, Mom said don't bother trying to fix it she doesn't use it. Rotors warped at 30k
2000 Ford Ranger 2.5L 140k miles - bought with 15k on the odo. at 85k the speed sensor went out $30. 90k the battery had a ton of corrosion on it and tested ok, but decided to change it anyway $60. Alternator at 120k $130. Sway bar links at 130k $25. BTW this has the original clutch and timing belt on it, I am wondering how long these will last. I really should change that belt out.
1998 Chrysler Cirrus 36k miles - bought new. First repair last summer. Evaporator had been leaking for a year or two and put it off, just kept topping it off with 134a. until Grandma hit a curb and cracked the condensor. Had to have a tow truck come and lift the car off. Had both the evaporator and condensor replaced to the tune of $1200! This was a biggie. I really think the evaporator was a design defect but the condensor was clearly an accident.
Past cars -
2005 Cobalt, owned until 36k. Had an airleak in the rear window, fixed under warranty, good car.
2005 Acura TL owned until 58k. Power steering pump went out after the warranty, the right side mirror that used to lower itself slightly while in reverse, decided to continue to keep lowering itself for a minute or two after you left reverse causing it to klack, klack, klack annoyingly. Several bulbs burned out on the dash. Nothing terrible though, it was a decent car.
2002 Elantra 100k miles. - Under warranty the windshield wasn't sealed properly, it leaked pretty bad causing the carpet to get moldy. Had to really fight Hyundai to fix this problem, they resealed the windshield but didn't want to replace the carpet. Finally got them to, and the windshield then developed a stress crack, which they refused to replace. The exhaust manifold cracked and was replaced under warranty. The ignition coil failed and the car had to be towed, also replaced under warranty. Out of warranty a battery $60, and a sensor that I never really was told exactly what it was that my brother had repaired by the dealer which I remember him complaining cost about $300. This was a decent car.
2000 Acura TL 100k miles - This car was a real piece of c***. The blower motor went out $200, the rearview mirror actually leaked a fluid out onto the shifter which melted the silver gated trim, the transmission went out $3200, sunroof went and never fixed that, power window motor $250, cam seal $400, ac compressor $950. There were also several quirks that were never fixed, like the sticky throttle body that caused the gas pedal to not want to be pushed. This car finally got totaled and put out of it's misery when it was rear ended and pushed into 2 other cars. No one was hurt though including the siberian husky riding in the back seat!
Other good cars we owned included:
2000 Grand Cherokee
1998 Plymouth Breeze
1997 Grand Cherokee
1995 Dodge Neon - 2 actually
1991 Plymouth Acclaim
1988 Chevy Astro
1988 Chevy 1500 Pickup
1988 Plymouth Reliant
1986 Plymouth Reliant
1986 Honda Accord
1984 Honda Accord
1983 Plymouth Reliant
[censored] cars -
1990 Chevy Lumina - in 36k miles it went through 3 computers, rear calipers, a dogbone, alternator, rear struts. Car was a real piece of [censored]. It did drive nice though!
1981 Chevy Citation - Dad says it went through 3 heater cores? I was young I barely remember but I think it was a headache.
Thats as far back as I remember.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The North American market is a completely different beast.
So true! GM does VERY well abroad. Better than in it's own turf of the USA. China, Middle East, and Russia buy more domestics than any others. My plant alone is building almost 5,000 SUV's this month alone just for Saudi Arabia. We built 2,500 last November for China, Russia and some other countries I never heard of. On average, we build 250 trucks per day for the Export market.
I imagine GM and Ford share the same "Import trendiness" abroad that has come in vogue here. People shunning their domestic brands for the imported GM and Ford products because they are "better"
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Japanese auto makers do well in Japan only because Japan makes it almost impossible for anyone else to sell here.
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.
But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.
I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.
I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The North American market is a completely different beast.
So true! GM does VERY well abroad. Better than in it's own turf of the USA. China, Middle East, and Russia buy more domestics than any others. My plant alone is building almost 5,000 SUV's this month alone just for Saudi Arabia. We built 2,500 last November for China, Russia and some other countries I never heard of. On average, we build 250 trucks per day for the Export market.
I imagine GM and Ford share the same "Import trendiness" abroad that has come in vogue here. People shunning their domestic brands for the imported GM and Ford products because they are "better"
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Japanese auto makers do well in Japan only because Japan makes it almost impossible for anyone else to sell here.
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.
But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.
I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.
I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.
Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.
StevieC...Too bad you've got so much [censored] over this issue. I am with you on almost everything you've been saying. I also beleive Hyandai is much better than when first introduced.
Here is my wife and i's experience's since 88.
--94 Nissan stanza---tons of hard miles and 2 transmissions replaced. Good power and an okay car.
--88 Tercel 5-speed sedan bought used and had been wrecked badly. No problems to speak of other than it would overheat with the a/c on due to wrong size radiator or something when fixed.
--88 Tercel hatchback 4-speed--bought fairly new, and this was my car that got beat to [censored] and never once broke anything or needed any repairs. I used to load my motorcycle in the back to go riding.
--90 Toy 2wd p/u 4 cyl.....a very solid little p/u and got good mileage. Also beat to [censored] but well taken care of otherwise. I sold it to my bro at 100k & 10 years old. Only replaced the brake pads & battery once, that's it.
--94 camry 4cyl 5-speed....wish i still had this car. Very reliable and never a moments issue.
--98 Toy A/C tacoma 4x4 5-sp. v-6--solid truck with little to no issues, and a fun ride.
--99 4runner v-6 auto... excellent ride and good offroad but wife wanted a sequoia with more people space.
--2000 Tundra 4x4 a/c v-8. Fairly good truck considering it was a first model year. Did have a few brake issues, and it had an aftermarket hitch on it that cracked the frame due to too much stress on equilizer.
--02 Tundra a/c 4x4 v-8...much better than the 2000 with little to no issues other than a couple dash rattles.
--02 Sequoia ltd 4x4... solid rig with no rattles but started to be a gas hog so got rid of it with 78k on it.
--07 4runner 4x4 auto...excellent, solid rig that gets fairly good mileage. Would like to keep this one.
--07 Tundra 4x4 dc 5.7L auto....Love the power and has great low end for a gasser, tows our fifth wheel very well. Also gets 19+ mpg on the hiway empty.
Lost the camshaft on this with 3k miles on the clock, and it was in the shop for 2 weeks. Toyota put in a complete new long block along with an extended platinum warranty for free. ($1800 value)
Very good customer service from toyota, and a good dealer to work with. So far the truck has been flawless other than a couple of dash rattles. Plan on keeping this as well.
--08 corolla 5-speed bought for a commuter to save $ on high fuel costs. Has 25k miles on it in 1 year trouble free and does get excellent mileage ( 30 city/42 hiway).
--08 GMC Savanna Cargo van got for a work vehicle. I am not one bit impressed with this vehicle. The drivetrain sucks with the 4-speed auto, and the 6.0L motor is a dog unless you rap it to the nuts. Got 8 mos & 8000 miles on it. I'm just glad i don't have to tow anything with it as it has a hard time simply towing itself around. This is not the 6.0 max motor, just the older 6.0.
It also gets horrible mileage.
Too bad toyota don't have a van available in the states.
As you can see, i've had several toyota products over the years, and most all had a fair amount of miles on them (80k+). With exception being the 4 i have now. Not all the toyota's have been flawless, having the one i've been the most excited about having a bad cam. But with the way toyota took care of me on it, i will continue to invest in them. As i still do beleive they are one of the top auto makers in the states.
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.
Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.
StevieC...Too bad you've got so much [censored] over this issue. I am with you on almost everything you've been saying. I also beleive Hyandai is much better than when first introduced.
Here is my wife and i's experience's since 88.
--94 Nissan stanza---tons of hard miles and 2 transmissions replaced. Good power and an okay car.
--88 Tercel 5-speed sedan bought used and had been wrecked badly. No problems to speak of other than it would overheat with the a/c on due to wrong size radiator or something when fixed.
--88 Tercel hatchback 4-speed--bought fairly new, and this was my car that got beat to [censored] and never once broke anything or needed any repairs. I used to load my motorcycle in the back to go riding.
--90 Toy 2wd p/u 4 cyl.....a very solid little p/u and got good mileage. Also beat to [censored] but well taken care of otherwise. I sold it to my bro at 100k & 10 years old. Only replaced the brake pads & battery once, that's it.
--94 camry 4cyl 5-speed....wish i still had this car. Very reliable and never a moments issue.
--98 Toy A/C tacoma 4x4 5-sp. v-6--solid truck with little to no issues, and a fun ride.
--99 4runner v-6 auto... excellent ride and good offroad but wife wanted a sequoia with more people space.
--2000 Tundra 4x4 a/c v-8. Fairly good truck considering it was a first model year. Did have a few brake issues, and it had an aftermarket hitch on it that cracked the frame due to too much stress on equilizer.
--02 Tundra a/c 4x4 v-8...much better than the 2000 with little to no issues other than a couple dash rattles.
--02 Sequoia ltd 4x4... solid rig with no rattles but started to be a gas hog so got rid of it with 78k on it.
--07 4runner 4x4 auto...excellent, solid rig that gets fairly good mileage. Would like to keep this one.
--07 Tundra 4x4 dc 5.7L auto....Love the power and has great low end for a gasser, tows our fifth wheel very well. Also gets 19+ mpg on the hiway empty.
Lost the camshaft on this with 3k miles on the clock, and it was in the shop for 2 weeks. Toyota put in a complete new long block along with an extended platinum warranty for free. ($1800 value)
Very good customer service from toyota, and a good dealer to work with. So far the truck has been flawless other than a couple of dash rattles. Plan on keeping this as well.
--08 corolla 5-speed bought for a commuter to save $ on high fuel costs. Has 25k miles on it in 1 year trouble free and does get excellent mileage ( 30 city/42 hiway).
--08 GMC Savanna Cargo van got for a work vehicle. I am not one bit impressed with this vehicle. The drivetrain sucks with the 4-speed auto, and the 6.0L motor is a dog unless you rap it to the nuts. Got 8 mos & 8000 miles on it. I'm just glad i don't have to tow anything with it as it has a hard time simply towing itself around. This is not the 6.0 max motor, just the older 6.0.
It also gets horrible mileage.
Too bad toyota don't have a van available in the states.
As you can see, i've had several toyota products over the years, and most all had a fair amount of miles on them (80k+). With exception being the 4 i have now. Not all the toyota's have been flawless, having the one i've been the most excited about having a bad cam. But with the way toyota took care of me on it, i will continue to invest in them. As i still do beleive they are one of the top auto makers in the states.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Here are ours:
1. 1974 Olds Cutlass Supreme. Went to the wreckers with 130,000 miles on it, body wasn't too hot. Very low maintenance, almost everything original. This was my first car.
2. 1986 Olds Custom Cruiser Wagon. Two brake boosters, multiple exhaust systems, shocks, rear springs, at 245,000Km the engine had excessive blow-by and the transmission would hold every gear when cold, and blow through them to the point where it dogged the engine to where it almost stalled when hot. Two factory radios, and it liked to dispose of its hubcaps.
3. 1989 Lincoln Town Car. Current ride. Has 337,000Km on it. Original transmission. Engine runs like a top. Did Heads/cam/Intake on it last year for fun. Stock stuff was just fine. Original lower balljoints replaced at 330,000Km, passenger-side upper balljoint and drivers side tie-rod end at 320,000km. All electronics still work, no squeaks or rattles, factory JBL speakers still sound awesome. New rad at 335,000Km.
4. 1997 Ford Explorer. Currently has 302,000Km, belongs to my sister now. Drivers-side wheel bearing, transfer case, valve body assembly and torque converter. I killed the transfer case. Also replaced the alternator with a 160A unit at 245,000Km, original still worked, but bearing was getting noisy. Everything else is original on it.
5. 1987 Ford Mustang GT. 330,000Km, ended up in the ditch and has now been transplanted into an '82 Capri. Lower ball-joints, water pump and transmission. Rest of the car was original.
6. 1988 Ford F-250 Custom. Brakes. Timing gears (nylon) broke (4.9L I6) at 250,000Km and I swapped in a 300,000Km 302HO from a Mustang. It is still going, sold it when I got the Lincoln.
6. 1998 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer. We put 80,000Km on it. 5.4L, acres of power, not so good on fuel. Replaced nothing. It was a lease.
7. 2000 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer. Currently has 165,000Km on it. Has had drivers-side lower ball-joint replaced and brakes.
8. 2003 Lincoln Town Car. 65,000Km (I think???) Rear rotors due to rust. Dad doesn't drive it enough.
1. 1974 Olds Cutlass Supreme. Went to the wreckers with 130,000 miles on it, body wasn't too hot. Very low maintenance, almost everything original. This was my first car.
2. 1986 Olds Custom Cruiser Wagon. Two brake boosters, multiple exhaust systems, shocks, rear springs, at 245,000Km the engine had excessive blow-by and the transmission would hold every gear when cold, and blow through them to the point where it dogged the engine to where it almost stalled when hot. Two factory radios, and it liked to dispose of its hubcaps.
3. 1989 Lincoln Town Car. Current ride. Has 337,000Km on it. Original transmission. Engine runs like a top. Did Heads/cam/Intake on it last year for fun. Stock stuff was just fine. Original lower balljoints replaced at 330,000Km, passenger-side upper balljoint and drivers side tie-rod end at 320,000km. All electronics still work, no squeaks or rattles, factory JBL speakers still sound awesome. New rad at 335,000Km.
4. 1997 Ford Explorer. Currently has 302,000Km, belongs to my sister now. Drivers-side wheel bearing, transfer case, valve body assembly and torque converter. I killed the transfer case. Also replaced the alternator with a 160A unit at 245,000Km, original still worked, but bearing was getting noisy. Everything else is original on it.
5. 1987 Ford Mustang GT. 330,000Km, ended up in the ditch and has now been transplanted into an '82 Capri. Lower ball-joints, water pump and transmission. Rest of the car was original.
6. 1988 Ford F-250 Custom. Brakes. Timing gears (nylon) broke (4.9L I6) at 250,000Km and I swapped in a 300,000Km 302HO from a Mustang. It is still going, sold it when I got the Lincoln.
6. 1998 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer. We put 80,000Km on it. 5.4L, acres of power, not so good on fuel. Replaced nothing. It was a lease.
7. 2000 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer. Currently has 165,000Km on it. Has had drivers-side lower ball-joint replaced and brakes.
8. 2003 Lincoln Town Car. 65,000Km (I think???) Rear rotors due to rust. Dad doesn't drive it enough.
One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread....
The fact of the matter is, GM is paying $80 per hour in wages vs. toyota at $40 per hour. This is killing GM along with their outrageous overhead expenses.
Another thing killing them is the useless UAW union [censored]. This may be the biggest issue they have. They need to be able to fire someone at the drop of a hat, but they can't afford to.
And, they DEVALUE their products way way too much by selling them at to low of a price. It could be that most people don't think they're worth that premium price, which i think is in fact the case.
Oh, i'm sorry that was more than one thing. 3 or 4 things.
The fact of the matter is, GM is paying $80 per hour in wages vs. toyota at $40 per hour. This is killing GM along with their outrageous overhead expenses.
Another thing killing them is the useless UAW union [censored]. This may be the biggest issue they have. They need to be able to fire someone at the drop of a hat, but they can't afford to.
And, they DEVALUE their products way way too much by selling them at to low of a price. It could be that most people don't think they're worth that premium price, which i think is in fact the case.
Oh, i'm sorry that was more than one thing. 3 or 4 things.
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
"1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado
On a Friday evening in February 2008, he was still on the road with that 1991 Chevrolet Silverado, speaking on the phone with National Public Radio's Robert Siegel and watching the odometer roll over the 1 million mile mark. And, he told Siegel, he has the oil change and other maintenance records to prove it's legit."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-9373_3-9868823-55.html
Calling all 3 million mile Hyundais. There must be plenty of them right?
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
"1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado
On a Friday evening in February 2008, he was still on the road with that 1991 Chevrolet Silverado, speaking on the phone with National Public Radio's Robert Siegel and watching the odometer roll over the 1 million mile mark. And, he told Siegel, he has the oil change and other maintenance records to prove it's legit."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-9373_3-9868823-55.html
Calling all 3 million mile Hyundais. There must be plenty of them right?
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
I'm only saying that because I have seen 2 Hyundais do just that in recent years (both co-workers cars, both automatics. One was a Kia, though). The owners of the cars weren't the type to abuse them, but I don't know the maintenance they got.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
I'm only saying that because I have seen 2 Hyundais do just that in recent years (both co-workers cars, both automatics. One was a Kia, though). The owners of the cars weren't the type to abuse them, but I don't know the maintenance they got.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.
But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.
I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.
I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.
If Domestic brands were "as good" or "better" than this would not have been a problem and they would of continued to out-do the Japanese and/or Korean brands. This hasn't happend. Why?
Because people are happier with "foreign" products and the service they provide at their dealerships. (Yes I know they haven't been perfect, but IMO much better than that of Domestic brands)
Why else would consumers take their wallets elsewhere if a Domestic was a better overall experience and value? Because they woke up one day and decided to?
I'm still struggling to see why...
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.
But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.
I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.
I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.
If Domestic brands were "as good" or "better" than this would not have been a problem and they would of continued to out-do the Japanese and/or Korean brands. This hasn't happend. Why?
Because people are happier with "foreign" products and the service they provide at their dealerships. (Yes I know they haven't been perfect, but IMO much better than that of Domestic brands)
Why else would consumers take their wallets elsewhere if a Domestic was a better overall experience and value? Because they woke up one day and decided to?
I'm still struggling to see why...
Originally Posted By: qship1996
This whole thread will be useless in the near future when the US auto companys fail, and we all benefit from driving foreign vehicles. Bailout money just stops the bleeding, it cant cure the terminal disease detroit has infected itself with in the long term.
Purchasing an American car is like having unprotected sex with HIV infected partners.....you may get extremely lucky once or twice,but sooner or later you get burned, and it is always a gamble!
You are just one reason I'm glad to be out of Maryland. What a ridiculous post. You are the posterboy of the ill informed import boys. Enjoy flipping burgers? You will be.
This whole thread will be useless in the near future when the US auto companys fail, and we all benefit from driving foreign vehicles. Bailout money just stops the bleeding, it cant cure the terminal disease detroit has infected itself with in the long term.
Purchasing an American car is like having unprotected sex with HIV infected partners.....you may get extremely lucky once or twice,but sooner or later you get burned, and it is always a gamble!
You are just one reason I'm glad to be out of Maryland. What a ridiculous post. You are the posterboy of the ill informed import boys. Enjoy flipping burgers? You will be.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.
Yep. I even did a search. Couldn't find anything he posted that ever brought anything good/positove to the forum. Probably just a troll or teenager having cheap thrills.
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.
Yep. I even did a search. Couldn't find anything he posted that ever brought anything good/positove to the forum. Probably just a troll or teenager having cheap thrills.
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stevie, it's very likely that the owner of the import dealership just happens to own 2-3 domestic stores down the road. Many dealers of import and domestic share service drives. Dealership people jump from dealer to dealer all the time. How is one better than another????
Originally Posted By: Kernel Potter
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
"1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado
On a Friday evening in February 2008, he was still on the road with that 1991 Chevrolet Silverado, speaking on the phone with National Public Radio's Robert Siegel and watching the odometer roll over the 1 million mile mark. And, he told Siegel, he has the oil change and other maintenance records to prove it's legit."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-9373_3-9868823-55.html
Calling all 3 million mile Hyundais. There must be plenty of them right?
Sure, one in a million. thing is, I bet every manufacturer has at least one owner claiming that.
If you really want to compare mileage, just go randomly pick 10 unknown-to-you "Big Three Domestics" owners, and ask their repairs in 100K miles, then randomly pick 10 more unknown-to-you people driving "Big Three Foreign" owners and ask their experiences in repairs for the same 100K mileage. That way you get unbiased answers from people who don't have a need to "protect their brand"
There are some FORD,Chrysler and GM vehicles that actually will make 100K or more trouble free miles, but sales, consumer complaints of the Domestic "Big Three's" all prove that "Foreign" models are probably better in quality. If they weren't, then sales would prove it. I have owned 4 Hyundai's since 1987, an excel, which, surprisingly never went back to the dealers for repair, and lasted to 103K before getting killed by a truck (I did a valve cover gasket for leaking). A 2002 Sante fe (106K right now on it) which has never been to the dealer for a warranty issue (only for scheduled 60K maintenance), a 2002 Elantra which had 59K on it before I traded it for my 2006 Sonata. The Sonata went back for a Warranty-Covered Mirror Switch, but have had no trouble with it otherwise, and it is at 63K now. I fully expect it to go well over 100K without any issues. I did buy my daughter a 96 Grand Am, with 103K on it. While it seems to run good, it has been through 2 LIM gaskets, One Radiator, 2 Window motors, one heater core, the infamous "Leaking Vent box with resulting carpet flooding" fiasco, which, BTW, GM was nice enough to send me a letter saying they know those cars leak, and to fix it (at my expense, of course) so the water doesn't drain on the Airbag switch causing an inadvertent deployment of the bags. While the car was used, and didn't seem abused, and got regular PM, it is literally falling apart. And seems I have become the local "LIM gasket fixer" in my circle of Acquaintances.
Those of you that bash Hyundai owners and it's quality, just google "Hyundai Rankings" and see what you come up with. You cant [censored] that many hits... Now go google "General Motors rankings" and see what you get. You GM lovers can spin this all you want, And you might even own that Chevy truck with 999, 997 miles on it, but sad to say, your an exception to the rule. However, with that being said, I do hope that GM, Chrysler, and even FORD (even though FORD is in better shape)get their heads out their arses and make the Good American Comeback. But till then, Hyundai, Honda,and Toyota are in my eyesights for new cars, and from the sales of current "foreign brands", and the Dismal outlook of "Domestic brands", my eyes aren't the only ones looking...
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.
When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......
"1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado
On a Friday evening in February 2008, he was still on the road with that 1991 Chevrolet Silverado, speaking on the phone with National Public Radio's Robert Siegel and watching the odometer roll over the 1 million mile mark. And, he told Siegel, he has the oil change and other maintenance records to prove it's legit."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-9373_3-9868823-55.html
Calling all 3 million mile Hyundais. There must be plenty of them right?
Sure, one in a million. thing is, I bet every manufacturer has at least one owner claiming that.
There are some FORD,Chrysler and GM vehicles that actually will make 100K or more trouble free miles, but sales, consumer complaints of the Domestic "Big Three's" all prove that "Foreign" models are probably better in quality. If they weren't, then sales would prove it. I have owned 4 Hyundai's since 1987, an excel, which, surprisingly never went back to the dealers for repair, and lasted to 103K before getting killed by a truck (I did a valve cover gasket for leaking). A 2002 Sante fe (106K right now on it) which has never been to the dealer for a warranty issue (only for scheduled 60K maintenance), a 2002 Elantra which had 59K on it before I traded it for my 2006 Sonata. The Sonata went back for a Warranty-Covered Mirror Switch, but have had no trouble with it otherwise, and it is at 63K now. I fully expect it to go well over 100K without any issues. I did buy my daughter a 96 Grand Am, with 103K on it. While it seems to run good, it has been through 2 LIM gaskets, One Radiator, 2 Window motors, one heater core, the infamous "Leaking Vent box with resulting carpet flooding" fiasco, which, BTW, GM was nice enough to send me a letter saying they know those cars leak, and to fix it (at my expense, of course) so the water doesn't drain on the Airbag switch causing an inadvertent deployment of the bags. While the car was used, and didn't seem abused, and got regular PM, it is literally falling apart. And seems I have become the local "LIM gasket fixer" in my circle of Acquaintances.
Those of you that bash Hyundai owners and it's quality, just google "Hyundai Rankings" and see what you come up with. You cant [censored] that many hits... Now go google "General Motors rankings" and see what you get. You GM lovers can spin this all you want, And you might even own that Chevy truck with 999, 997 miles on it, but sad to say, your an exception to the rule. However, with that being said, I do hope that GM, Chrysler, and even FORD (even though FORD is in better shape)get their heads out their arses and make the Good American Comeback. But till then, Hyundai, Honda,and Toyota are in my eyesights for new cars, and from the sales of current "foreign brands", and the Dismal outlook of "Domestic brands", my eyes aren't the only ones looking...
Another data point,
A poor guy in my motorsports club, doing solo 2...
2002 Hyundai Elantra, multiple strut bearing failures, tranny failure, wheel bearing failures.
Granted solo 2 isn't typical usage but I have never seen any car have so many problems from solo racing... A guy runs an 1984 Hyundai Pony(a true P.O.S.), and I run my 95 Neon, and both run like a top compared this Elantra...
Are all Hyundai's junk? I don't know but that one sure was...
Ian
A poor guy in my motorsports club, doing solo 2...
2002 Hyundai Elantra, multiple strut bearing failures, tranny failure, wheel bearing failures.
Granted solo 2 isn't typical usage but I have never seen any car have so many problems from solo racing... A guy runs an 1984 Hyundai Pony(a true P.O.S.), and I run my 95 Neon, and both run like a top compared this Elantra...
Are all Hyundai's junk? I don't know but that one sure was...
Ian
Yea, I can tear up a few orange Chargers jumping mudhills and ramps too....
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.
Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.
Well, I sort of went into it already in my post before you made this but what the heck. I will only list my "NEW" vehicles other than 1 used one as I already mentioned it earlier in my truck count( might have counted it as a new one - sorry! ). Just keep in mind that I change vehicles fairly often because I WANT to( better vehicle, different options/engine, better MPG, whatever - different reasons )not because I always had to or anything. With the exception of 1 vehicle, the Toyota, I never got rid of one of my vehicles because it gave me problems. I am just not the guy who buys a vehicle and drives it into the ground. I like a new car or truck every couple years.
All vehicles are more or less kept the same approx time span and run for the same miles so it is a fair comparison. I am not comparing a 100K vehicle to a 10K one so I am asking the same from them all. Years/months & miles are all approx and as accurate as I can recall..
1988 Dodge Ram 50 RC/LB Sport 4WD 2.6L 4cyl - 3 Years/32K:
Head Gasket
Roll Bar & Tubular Rear Bumper multiple replacements( rust )
Clutch multiple replacement( very weak )
Tires
About 4.5-5 years here of used vehicles.
1994 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/LB 2WD SLT Laramie 5.2L( used - bought in 1996 ) - 9 months/10K:
Tires
Tune-up
***in regards to the truck above I really needed 4WD and the 318 in the truck was underpowered for my needs. I also was ready for a new vehicle again.***
1997 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SLT 5.9L - 42 months/53K:
Driveshaft Rattle( hollow - fixed by filling with foam )
Starter
AC Line
Tires
Front Brakes
Clear Plastic Gauge Cluster cover cracked( replaced under warranty )
2001 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SPORT 5.9L - 21 months/29K:
Front Brakes
Tires( POS Goodyears OEM )
2003 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 4.7L - 19 months/22K:
Door Panel Reflector Lens Fell Out( 2 - common issue )
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 04 below? )
Mold Smell In AC/Heat Vent( dealer had a spray to deal with it )
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI - 14 months/19K:
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 03 above? )
*** The HEMI Ram above has been my FAVORITE vehicle of all time( excluding muscle cars )to this point bar none! Sold it when gas prices soared after Katrina. Stupid mistake I know.***
2005 Toyota Tacoma DC/SB 4WD SR5 4.0L V6 - 7 months/9K:
Severe Paint Issues( very common - chipping & peeling = HORRIBLE )
Composite Bed Cracked( going over a bump with an empty bed )
Engine Noise( under load and at idle )
Leaf Spring & Body Cab Mount Squeaks
Surging At Idle( dangerous - would just take off on you )
Brakes( BAD! )
Interior Squeaks and Rattles( horrid - all plastic and cheap - didn't start making noise until about 1-2K then went nuts )
Whistling/Wind Noise On Highway From Windshield Seal
Tires( HORRIBLE OEM tires - could not be balanced - "I" had to buy tires to fix it )
***I know I am forgetting a couple on the Toyota above but you get the point. Hands down the worst vehicle I have EVER owned new or used. Toyota would do NOTHING to help with any of the major issues( ie; paint, brakes, surging, engine noise, tires ) and was told it was all OK and everything was normal. Total and complete bull pucky! With the cracked bed they blammed ME for it.
I never hauled anything heavier than a 150lbs snow blower and that was on a rubber mat. Just more B S from them. They had a few TSB's for squeaks and some of the engine noise( at idle )but they worked only part of the time and I was so disgusted with the company and dealers I just said screw it. I couldn't wait to sell that awful vehicle!
2005 Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L( New leftover bought in March 06 ) - 10 months/11K:
MAF Sensor
Intermediate( Steering )Shaft Clunk
Aligment( I replaced OE tires right off - alignment was slightly out so done under warranty )
***Sold the truck above only after it was almost destroyed in a massive hail storm( just 3 months after buying it
). Over 15K worth of damage the insurance company would only pay 8K on( I fought like a pit bull for a full repair but couldn't do any better ). I got it fixed as best I could and sold it just as fast as I could( full damage disclosure don't misunderstand )! Very good truck and would not have sold it if not for the damage and 1/2 arsed repairs!***
2007 (NBS)Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L w/ AFM - 1 year/13K:
Only issues I ever had was extremely poor MPG. Had it in multiple times about it but never anything wrong found? Overall a nice truck. Sold it when financial issues arose for me and downsized to a more economical vehicle.
2008 Chevy Equinox AWD 1LT 3.4L V6 - 11 months/15K:
Passenger's Rear Window Track Issues When Wet( just needed lube )
DIC( couple features innaccurate )
BCM Ground( TSB - fixed )
***sold this vehicle because all of the local Chevy garages went out of business. Only left 2 within a 50-70 mile radius one way and neither was one I would consider dealing with. Returned to the Dodge dealer my Family has always used. No issues with it and it was GREAT on gas!***
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI w/ MDS - Current/2500K:
No Problems other than the god awful OE Goodyear Wrangler HP POS tires. I knew I would not be happy with the tires and would have to replace them when buying it though so I don't consider it a problem. Just a poor choice by the mfg.
So in my experience the Dodge & Chevy vehicles have been much better quality than the Toyota I had. The car mfg and dealer base has been superior as well. I know it is just ONE Toyota but as you can see it was not a good one. I will NEVER buy another vehicle from them based partly on that lemon but more so really based on the fact they would do nothing about the serious and major problems it had. "ANY" mfg can produce a lemon but if they and their dealer base won't stand behind the vehicle and fix those issues it becomes a nightmare(
)for the owner as it did me with the Toyota. That truck was falling apart under me as I drove and it was NOT a safe vehicle to drive.
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.
Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.
Well, I sort of went into it already in my post before you made this but what the heck. I will only list my "NEW" vehicles other than 1 used one as I already mentioned it earlier in my truck count( might have counted it as a new one - sorry! ). Just keep in mind that I change vehicles fairly often because I WANT to( better vehicle, different options/engine, better MPG, whatever - different reasons )not because I always had to or anything. With the exception of 1 vehicle, the Toyota, I never got rid of one of my vehicles because it gave me problems. I am just not the guy who buys a vehicle and drives it into the ground. I like a new car or truck every couple years.
All vehicles are more or less kept the same approx time span and run for the same miles so it is a fair comparison. I am not comparing a 100K vehicle to a 10K one so I am asking the same from them all. Years/months & miles are all approx and as accurate as I can recall..
1988 Dodge Ram 50 RC/LB Sport 4WD 2.6L 4cyl - 3 Years/32K:
Head Gasket
Roll Bar & Tubular Rear Bumper multiple replacements( rust )
Clutch multiple replacement( very weak )
Tires
About 4.5-5 years here of used vehicles.
1994 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/LB 2WD SLT Laramie 5.2L( used - bought in 1996 ) - 9 months/10K:
Tires
Tune-up
***in regards to the truck above I really needed 4WD and the 318 in the truck was underpowered for my needs. I also was ready for a new vehicle again.***
1997 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SLT 5.9L - 42 months/53K:
Driveshaft Rattle( hollow - fixed by filling with foam )
Starter
AC Line
Tires
Front Brakes
Clear Plastic Gauge Cluster cover cracked( replaced under warranty )
2001 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SPORT 5.9L - 21 months/29K:
Front Brakes
Tires( POS Goodyears OEM )
2003 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 4.7L - 19 months/22K:
Door Panel Reflector Lens Fell Out( 2 - common issue )
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 04 below? )
Mold Smell In AC/Heat Vent( dealer had a spray to deal with it )
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI - 14 months/19K:
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 03 above? )
*** The HEMI Ram above has been my FAVORITE vehicle of all time( excluding muscle cars )to this point bar none! Sold it when gas prices soared after Katrina. Stupid mistake I know.***
2005 Toyota Tacoma DC/SB 4WD SR5 4.0L V6 - 7 months/9K:
Severe Paint Issues( very common - chipping & peeling = HORRIBLE )
Composite Bed Cracked( going over a bump with an empty bed )
Engine Noise( under load and at idle )
Leaf Spring & Body Cab Mount Squeaks
Surging At Idle( dangerous - would just take off on you )
Brakes( BAD! )
Interior Squeaks and Rattles( horrid - all plastic and cheap - didn't start making noise until about 1-2K then went nuts )
Whistling/Wind Noise On Highway From Windshield Seal
Tires( HORRIBLE OEM tires - could not be balanced - "I" had to buy tires to fix it )
***I know I am forgetting a couple on the Toyota above but you get the point. Hands down the worst vehicle I have EVER owned new or used. Toyota would do NOTHING to help with any of the major issues( ie; paint, brakes, surging, engine noise, tires ) and was told it was all OK and everything was normal. Total and complete bull pucky! With the cracked bed they blammed ME for it.
2005 Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L( New leftover bought in March 06 ) - 10 months/11K:
MAF Sensor
Intermediate( Steering )Shaft Clunk
Aligment( I replaced OE tires right off - alignment was slightly out so done under warranty )
***Sold the truck above only after it was almost destroyed in a massive hail storm( just 3 months after buying it
2007 (NBS)Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L w/ AFM - 1 year/13K:
Only issues I ever had was extremely poor MPG. Had it in multiple times about it but never anything wrong found? Overall a nice truck. Sold it when financial issues arose for me and downsized to a more economical vehicle.
2008 Chevy Equinox AWD 1LT 3.4L V6 - 11 months/15K:
Passenger's Rear Window Track Issues When Wet( just needed lube )
DIC( couple features innaccurate )
BCM Ground( TSB - fixed )
***sold this vehicle because all of the local Chevy garages went out of business. Only left 2 within a 50-70 mile radius one way and neither was one I would consider dealing with. Returned to the Dodge dealer my Family has always used. No issues with it and it was GREAT on gas!***
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI w/ MDS - Current/2500K:
No Problems other than the god awful OE Goodyear Wrangler HP POS tires. I knew I would not be happy with the tires and would have to replace them when buying it though so I don't consider it a problem. Just a poor choice by the mfg.
So in my experience the Dodge & Chevy vehicles have been much better quality than the Toyota I had. The car mfg and dealer base has been superior as well. I know it is just ONE Toyota but as you can see it was not a good one. I will NEVER buy another vehicle from them based partly on that lemon but more so really based on the fact they would do nothing about the serious and major problems it had. "ANY" mfg can produce a lemon but if they and their dealer base won't stand behind the vehicle and fix those issues it becomes a nightmare(
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