GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Amkeer


We have owned 6 GM products since 1985. Is there experience owning a GM? Yes. I gave GM 6 attempts, not 1, not 2. We have also witnessed family members that owned/own GM, Ford, and Chrysler products. Problems? Many. So much so they had to get rid of some of the vehicles before they were payed for.Was this recent? Yes. Is this acceptable? I would hope most of you would say "no".



This has happened to me twice in a row with GM products and has now hurt me financially as I have over $25K in debt from 2 GM lemons to pay off...

Would GM help me out at trade in time? NO. So, I no longer trust GM and can no longer financially afford to take the risk associated with buying thier products. I gave them a "second chance" and bought new after getting a $45k lemon. So if any of you GM lovers wants to send me a check for $25k....sure I'll go back again. Anything short of that...forget it.


Careful now you will get shot down about how great their quality is and how the Japanese have an equal amount of problems like I did a few posts ago...

These things just don't happen PT1, not even with a mechanic that has seen 35+ years and worked for one of the Big-3 like my dad.

If your dad is a mechanic of 35+ years, why does it matter what you drive? He should be able to fix any problem on your domestic vehicle for you for cheap or free (that's what I do for my son anyway). As a matter of fact, most mechanics prefer the vehicles they are most used to working on. To be totally fair, I believe you and others just can't comprehend the effect on this country if we allow our domestic industries to fail. It won't be pretty for anyone here, no matter what you drive.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

How well is Toyota doing in Germany?


Based on the number of Toyotas I saw in Germany while I was there driving my 2006 Saab 93 2.0T around about 2 years ago, not very well.

In two weeks and 2500 miles of driving, I saw exactly 3 Priuses and 2 of them were on display at airports.

I really think this is because there's no real need for Toyota in Germany. IF you hate driving and think cars are a pain, you can use public transportation

 

[StevieC]

My dad may be in "retired" mode but he is still working on cars and with what my family, extended family, friends, neighbours etc. own he has enough to keep him busy and current on whats going on.

You enjoy your Domestics, I will enjoy my "Foreigns" and IMO I will have spent less in repairs that you, but only time will tell if I was the one out to lunch.

I will keep you all updated as my Santa Fe and Kia Spectra ages and what they have required to keep them on the road. I promise everything I do aside from Regular Maintenance will be listed.

Then we can compare to yours and see what the differences are for S***S & giggles.

Sound good?

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

How well is Toyota doing in Germany?

In two weeks and 2500 miles of driving, I saw exactly 3 Priuses and 2 of them were on display at airports.


I spent about 1100km on the autobahns earlier last year in a Peugeot 207SW, and during that time I saw more Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD's than I did Toyotas. Saw maybe 10 CRD's and 3 or 4 Toyotas, and the few I did see looked like they belonged to Americans stationed over there.

 

[NHHEMI]

I love when these threads start. It's always the same. The Big 3 can't compare to the foreign stuff( ie; Toyota, Honda, etc... ). What a load of horse hooey. As another poster said early on, people are still attributing the quality of cars made in the 80's and early 90's to GM, Ford, and Dodge. The vehicles they make today are just as good as anything foreign. And if you want to be historically accurate the stuff from Toyota, Honda, etc... back in the 80's and early 90's was complete CRUD! The engines may have lasted a million miles but the bodies rusted away in 2 years.

I have owned a LOT of vehicles over the past 20 years. I change frequently by choice and at times not by choice such as when my 05 Silverado was destroyed by a massive hail storm. I have only got rid of ONE vehicle because it was a problem and that was a Toyota! My brother has always driven Ford's and he has never had problems. My Sister Dodge and GM like me and no problems. My other Sister is all HOnda and that like and nothing but problems. She is like so many here. Blasting me for buying from the big 3. I laugh when she does that with her car in the shop with yet another problem.

I have personally had 7 Dodge Rams( 6 1500's - 1 Ram 50 ), 2 Silverado's and a Chevy Equinox( 08 AWD SUV ), and a Toyota Tacoma( 05 ). Only 2 have ever given me any real problems and they were both foreign. The Ram 50( rebadged Mitsubishi )and the 05 Toyota Tacoma.

The Ram 50 blew a head gasket and had the tubular roll bars and bumpers rust out like 2 times p/year but at least Dodge replaced them. It also had a poor clutch design and ate them regularly( not my fault - common ). The Tacoma on the other hand was the biggest turd I have EVER owned new or used. It so many problems in the 7 months I owned it, ranging from paint to engine to brake and everything else you could think of, that I couldn't take it anymore and sold it. Toyota didn't stand behind one single problem. Miserable company to deal with. I have never had problems getting the minor things that went wrong with my GM's or Dodges dealt with.

I also would point out that the Dodge and Chevy vehicles by far were better quality( build wise )than the Tacoma. Just a real hunk of [censored] that cost me MORE than most of my full sized trucks and the SUV.

It really is a shame that people won't give the cars from GM, Ford, and Chrysler a shot. You are sadly mistaken if you think those Toyotas and Hondas are so much better or ANY better. Every mfg will have a lemon now and then but the Big 3 make some excellent cars and trucks these days that are every bit as good or even better than Toyota and Honda.

As to the comments that you will spend less on repairs and maintenance that too is bunk. I sold parts for a lot of years and the foreign stuff had just as many problems AND the parts for them were 2-3X+ more.

I also have to agree with the poster about the new Tundra. The most butt ugly truck on the market today. YUCK! I wouldn't buy one of those trucks unless I was a big old =

 

[StevieC]

Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.

Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.

Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.

I'll go.

1996 Saturn SL2, 123,000 miles.

Things that have failed:

Alternator (63k)
Starter (99k)
PCV Breather Hose (70k)
Transmission top cover gasket (50k)
Cruise Control (50k-ish)
Trunk Wiring Harness (50k-ish)
Upper motor mount (70k-ish)
Serpentine Belt Tensioner (88k)
Spark Plug tube seals (70k)
Thermostat and Radiator Cap (Around 100k)
Rear Brake Calipers (??)

Oil Consumption-- 1 qt every 3k, which I find rather annoying for a daily driver that isn't a performance car.

The problems aren't serious, but they are certainly annoying. It's disheartening that most of these problems occurred before 100k, which I find to be rather unacceptable. If they had started happening after 100k, that would've more understandable.

On the other hand, my dad's 1992 Toyota Previa has not had a single repair or normal wear item in 81,000 miles.

 

[StevieC]

Here are mine and my family, as I still live with them...



2006 Hyundai Santa Fe 150,000+ KM (90,000 Miles)

Nothing other than general maintenance.



2004 Kia Spectra 75,000+ KM (47,000 Miles)

CD Player broke (prob. my moms fault), other than that nothing other than general maintenance.



1995 Dodge Neon 140,000 KM (I think) (87,500 Miles)

Head Gasket
Water Pump
Radiator
Manual Transmission Dampner
Shocks
Starter
Alternator
Exaust Bolts
A/C Compressor
Paint is flaking off the car
Drivers side Drive shaft
Thermostat
Coolant temperature sensor for ECM
Pre-Cat Oxygen Sensor
TPS
Idle control motor needed to be cleaned and lubricated
EGR Valve

1994 Dodge Caravan 3.0 Litre 300,000KM (180,000 Miles)

Head Gasket
Radiator
2 Water pumps
Transmission rebuilt
Fuel pump
TPS
Catalytic Converter
Oxygen sensors
EGR Valve
Door Lock
A/C compressor
A/C Condenser
Heater-core
Paint is flaking
Electric Trunk Latch


2000 Hyundai Elantra - 200,000+ KM (120,000 Miles)
(Engine Severely abused)

4 Oxygen sensors
Alternator
Water-pump as preventative maintenance

 

[Ben99GT]

2001 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4x2 4.6L (131,000 miles)

2 ignition coils (at 90,000 and 120,000 mi respectively)
One cargo light bulb

2002 Ford F250 SD SuperCrew 4x4 7.3 PSD (85,000 miles)

Nothing but general maintenance, regularly tows 9,000+ lb. trailer and sees off road usage occasionally. It's getting close to shock and brake time though, not bad for a 7,300 lb. truck (actual unloaded weight) though.

2005 Ford Freestyle (55,000 miles)

Required new rear brake pads at 40,000 miles. Even though this could be considered regular maintenance, Ford acknowledges there was a problem with 2005-2006 rear brake pads on the Freestyle/Five Hundred and paid for the repair despite the car being out of warranty.

Regarding the 2001 F150:
- still has original shocks and rides like a dream with zero rattles
- original brake pads lasted until 120,000 miles (plenty of city driving and some towing mileage)
- has done several 15,000 mi OCI with M1 EP
- OEM battery lasted until 105,000 miles

 

[The Critic]

Also, I forgot to add to the Saturn's list:

Upstream Oxygen Sensor (114k)
Front and Rear Struts (???)
Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (around 95k)

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The North American market is a completely different beast.



So true! GM does VERY well abroad. Better than in it's own turf of the USA. China, Middle East, and Russia buy more domestics than any others. My plant alone is building almost 5,000 SUV's this month alone just for Saudi Arabia. We built 2,500 last November for China, Russia and some other countries I never heard of. On average, we build 250 trucks per day for the Export market.

Japanese auto makers do well in Japan only because Japan makes it almost impossible for anyone else to sell here.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.

Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.



This is an awful idea. All it will do is clog up the server with opinionated bull$hit with everyone trying to outdo the other. Will be as helpful as a Consumer Reports study.

 

[StevieC]

Yeah but everybody is claiming that the Big-3 vehicles are better with the same amount of repairs as the "Foreign" makes... So I say lets see the cards.

 

[GMBoy]

OK -

All my GM (and Jeep, Ford) vehicles owned since I started driving:

NO PROBLEMS EVER. TOP THAT.




(see, Bull$hit already

)

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
OK -

All my GM (and Jeep, Ford) vehicles owned since I started driving:

NO PROBLEMS EVER. TOP THAT.


You win

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
OK -

All my GM (and Jeep, Ford) vehicles owned since I started driving:

NO PROBLEMS EVER. TOP THAT.




(see, Bull$hit already

)


I know that no one can prove it, but I'm hoping that everyone posts honestly and we can all see the differences between the brands and what the actual cost of ownership really is.

That was funny though...

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

Japanese auto makers do well in Japan only because Japan makes it almost impossible for anyone else to sell here.


The whole idea of free trade appears to be based upon the theory that if the USA has no trade barriers, other countries will reciprocate.

That doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[cousincletus]

When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.

 

[StevieC]

Nope... That's why I think that NAFTA stands for: North American F***ED up The Arse!

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.


When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......