Valvoline vs Mobil 1 - Round 2

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Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Jeez, OVERK1LL, that was a quick post I made, not a technical paper. It might be good for you to ask questions, rather than assume and accuse. For example, "RI_RS4, could you clarify what you mean by iron bearings?" That would lead to a reasonable discussion.

My choice of words with regards to the cam lobes were imprecise. However, as far as the cam chain is concerned, there are quite a few sleeve or roller bearings involved in any chain. The point, which often gets overlooked, is that high Iron in a UOA is indicative of the wear of an Iron load bearing component in the engine. For engines with Aluminum cylinder walls, the Iron cannot be coming from the cylinders, thus it must be coming from someplace else. If it were coming from mixed-material bearings, you would see elevations of multiple metals in a UOA. In the case of recent Audi Alusil cylinder walled engines, the wear seems to be primarily iron, and not overlay metals in a bearing, or hard aluminum alloys (used in some of the bearings.) This leaves a very few sources ... Cams, and chains. In this case cams are ruled out, because roller followers are used, and several of the lobes are available for inspection through the oil fill hole.

Another clue, there are sharp changes in average FE levels as fuel dilution rises, and as oil chemistry is changed. A good working theory for this suggests that the wear is occurring in the mixed lubrication regime, where anti-wear films are especially important. Fuel seems to wash ZDDP deposition films away from critical load bearing surfaces, or at the least retards formation of the films.

The timing chain fits right into the mixed lubrication regime, and caries high loads. It is the most likely source of the Iron in my engines.


Great explanation! That's what I was looking for. And makes sense now that you've explained the system. Thank you.

As I stated, even though chains have their own little wear surfaces, most don't refer to them as bearings, more as the chain as a whole (which you've now explained and it makes sense) which is where you lost me on your original statement. As, which I'm sure you realized from reading, I was thinking you were talking about crank surfaces or had used the wrong term.

We are clear now
wink.gif


-Chris
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Rolf
Originally Posted By: buster
The Synpower 5w40 is not a diesel rated oil AFAIK. It's their equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.


Are you saying the comparison is unfair because the Delvac 1 5W-40 is a better oil?

I ask because around my area they're about the same price.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_5W-40.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp



Again, you are switching the subject.

Synpower 5w-40 is a 40 grade oil that meets european specifications.

Mobil 1 0w-40 is a 40 grade oil that meets european specifications.

If you had a Mercedes, this is the Synpower oil that Ashland would recommend to replace M1 0w40.

I do not know what is the better oil between the two and neither do you.

+1,
also, this... indirectly prove the M1 0w-40 is not superior to Synpower 5w-40, that M1 need to bring other "better" weapon (what other better oil they have other than 0w-40, SUV? Delvac?) to the battlefield to fight the "suppose" lower, poorly equipped enemy. unless Delvac finally meet it's match?? hehehehe
 
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Originally Posted By: gogozy
also, this... indirectly prove the M1 0w-40 is not superior to Synpower 5w-40, that M1 need to bring other "better" weapon (what other better oil they have other than 0w-40, SUV? Delvac?) to the battlefield to fight the "suppose" lower, poorly equipped enemy. unless Delvac finally meet it's match??


If we took four vehicles, say a current Ford Focus, a Honda Civic, a VW Jetta, and Hyundai Genesis, and ran:

Mobil 1 0W-20

Mobil 1 0W-40

Mobil 1 10W-40 motorcycle

Delvac 1 5W-40

in them sequentially, we'd get four different results.

It might well be that each of them would prefer a different oil.

What this comparison "proved" is that this particular vehicle with this particular driver's style seems to show better wear numbers with 5W-40 Synpower than with Mobil 1 0W-40.

It does not prove that Synpower - in general - is superior to Mobil 1 - in general.

"Better weapon" is off the point completely.





.
 
Originally Posted By: yeti
on one of the other 2 "new" mobil 1 threads, a poster writes -- "it's just oil, but around here that often means some sort of cult ...". i didn't identify him, lest he be banished to using an SJ oil, and a fram filter. i had a little bet last night that this thread would be, mercifully, killed off after 43 pages. obviously, i lost. am i the only one here that is ready to go on a shooting spree ? i'm putting on my kevlar vest now.


yeti,

Just kick back and relax with a cold beverage-I've been enjoying the last 45 pages from atop a mountain of Schaeffer's- a great product at a fair price with none of the marketing manure...
thumbsup2.gif




35.gif
 
reddog -- i hear 'ya. this is really entertainment -- to a point.i've read posts at random,while having a cigar and a brandy. if i had to read all 45 pages, i WOULD go on a shooting spree. read bill in utah's post on page 3 of the "mobil 1 means a clean engine" thread. take care.
p.s.-- from what i've read, schaeffers is an excellent oil "with none of the marketing manure".
 
Normally, a person or entity is innocent until proven guilty.

I think it would be more correct to say that there are "allegations" of substandard performance. The jury isn't in as yet.
 
Originally Posted By: John_K


Interesting that they are comparing to dino. Well, duh, I would hope Mobil is better in that you can almost get 3 quarts dino for what they want for one quart of Mobil 1.

John


It makes alot of sense really. Probably 80-90% of people run Dino oil. That leaves a large customer base to try to switch over. With people trying to hold on to vehicles longer you need to show them why it would make sense to switch to Syn oil.
 
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Jeez, OVERK1LL, that was a quick post I made, not a technical paper. It might be good for you to ask questions, rather than assume and accuse. For example, "RI_RS4, could you clarify what you mean by iron bearings?" That would lead to a reasonable discussion.

My choice of words with regards to the cam lobes were imprecise. However, as far as the cam chain is concerned, there are quite a few sleeve or roller bearings involved in any chain. The point, which often gets overlooked, is that high Iron in a UOA is indicative of the wear of an Iron load bearing component in the engine. For engines with Aluminum cylinder walls, the Iron cannot be coming from the cylinders, thus it must be coming from someplace else. If it were coming from mixed-material bearings, you would see elevations of multiple metals in a UOA. In the case of recent Audi Alusil cylinder walled engines, the wear seems to be primarily iron, and not overlay metals in a bearing, or hard aluminum alloys (used in some of the bearings.) This leaves a very few sources ... Cams, and chains. In this case cams are ruled out, because roller followers are used, and several of the lobes are available for inspection through the oil fill hole.

Another clue, there are sharp changes in average FE levels as fuel dilution rises, and as oil chemistry is changed. A good working theory for this suggests that the wear is occurring in the mixed lubrication regime, where anti-wear films are especially important. Fuel seems to wash ZDDP deposition films away from critical load bearing surfaces, or at the least retards formation of the films.

The timing chain fits right into the mixed lubrication regime, and caries high loads. It is the most likely source of the Iron in my engines.


What engine has aluminum cylinder walls? An honest question, I really would like to know.

By what I have heard, nearly all mass-produced engines in the last 75 years have been either cast iron or aluminum blocks, with steel cylinder liners.
 
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Jeez, OVERK1LL, that was a quick post I made, not a technical paper. It might be good for you to ask questions, rather than assume and accuse. For example, "RI_RS4, could you clarify what you mean by iron bearings?" That would lead to a reasonable discussion.

My choice of words with regards to the cam lobes were imprecise. However, as far as the cam chain is concerned, there are quite a few sleeve or roller bearings involved in any chain. The point, which often gets overlooked, is that high Iron in a UOA is indicative of the wear of an Iron load bearing component in the engine. For engines with Aluminum cylinder walls, the Iron cannot be coming from the cylinders, thus it must be coming from someplace else. If it were coming from mixed-material bearings, you would see elevations of multiple metals in a UOA. In the case of recent Audi Alusil cylinder walled engines, the wear seems to be primarily iron, and not overlay metals in a bearing, or hard aluminum alloys (used in some of the bearings.) This leaves a very few sources ... Cams, and chains. In this case cams are ruled out, because roller followers are used, and several of the lobes are available for inspection through the oil fill hole.

Another clue, there are sharp changes in average FE levels as fuel dilution rises, and as oil chemistry is changed. A good working theory for this suggests that the wear is occurring in the mixed lubrication regime, where anti-wear films are especially important. Fuel seems to wash ZDDP deposition films away from critical load bearing surfaces, or at the least retards formation of the films.

The timing chain fits right into the mixed lubrication regime, and caries high loads. It is the most likely source of the Iron in my engines.


What engine has aluminum cylinder walls? An honest question, I really would like to know.

By what I have heard, nearly all mass-produced engines in the last 75 years have been either cast iron or aluminum blocks, with steel cylinder liners.


Quite the necropost!

There are a few engines that don't utilize conventional liners but instead use a special surface treatment. BMW's Nikasil and Alumasil coatings come to mind, which would indeed lead to, during wear, the release of aluminum or nickel and silicon particles.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
There are a few engines that don't utilize conventional liners but instead use a special surface treatment. BMW's Nikasil and Alumasil coatings come to mind, which would indeed lead to, during wear, the release of aluminum or nickel and silicon particles.

Yeah my old BMW M60 engine block is Alusil as are some Audi and Porsche engines. Jaguar used Nikasil coatings in the past (as did BMW of course) to unsatisfactory results.

I have a friend who has a Nikasil 540i which runs fine. These days with low sulfur fuel it's not an issue, so any Nikasil engine that made it this far is good to go.
 
Originally Posted By: DGXR
Quite the necropost!


Holy [censored] this was from 2008! LOL I'm glad I skipped to the end as I was reading portions of that scratching my head.
 
9 Years Later 6/7/27

RoboX18Z5
What are Valvoline and Mobil 1?

RoboLR135
Those were goopy liquids former Earth organisms put in machines like Uncle Mustang and Cousin Maverick before someone didn't change goopy liquid filter many intervals and their engine blew up and destroyed civilization thus giving rise to the machines. I'm glad we found their forum.
 
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