downsides to synthetic oil

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Steelhead
is oil that costs 3 times as much as a lower cost alternative 3 times better?

will oil that costs 5 times as much as a lower cost alternative produce 1/5 the wear as the less costly oil?

will a high maintenance wife that costs 5 times as much to keep stay 5 times longer than a less expensive one or produce 5 times more pleasure?

The gap in price is closing. YB is about $4/qt, PP about $6.50, that's retail off the shelf, no sales, deals, or rebates. It makes using synthetic a little easier. For my favorite vehicles its synthetic and its higher price, my beater gets a good dino. No problems with any of them.

Frank D

 

[Madjoe]

Let me put it to you this way, a Honda S2000 generates 120HP per liter in a 2.0L package from the factory (120HP x 2 = 240HP). A 5.0L Mustang does not come close to producing 120HP x 5 = 600HP from the factory. Does that mean that we all shouldn't buy 5.0L Mustangs because it's not producing power proportionately compared to the S2000 per liter? Do you send your kids to private school and pay $15k a year because it's $15k better than a quality public school? Does that $15k investment guarantee you good results?

If cheap is what you're after, go as cheap as you can. I'd look into buying the stuff that's still in the round cans. I'm sure you can find it at 75 cents a quart. Obviously you don't care about quality lubrication because price is more important than the quality of protection. It would make no sense to spend little money on oil and get a really good oil filter. You might as well get cheap oil and a cheap filter.

If you want to use synthetics, it makes no sense to buy the cheapest synthetic just so you can say that you're using a syn product. I know of some well known synthetics that don't produce good results. In fact I know of 2 specific brands that're flat out garbage... I wouldn't use them even if they were given to me for free for a lifetime.

I don't think that paying a lot means you're getting something of good quality either, however when you get to look at engines torn down everyday of your last 35 years, you get to see stuff people take for granted. I won't lie to you and say that I got to try everything out there, that's unrealistic, but I've used many of the "well advertised" products and I've developed my preferences based on the end results. To me, good results justify the costs.

One of my work vehicles has 280k original miles on the original motor driven by different people being used for work commute to delivery/pickups. It still has over 90% of the original compression pressure across all cylinders without any rebuild other than gasket replacements. Factory crosshatch pattern is very visible at 150k miles (observed during a head gasket replacement). No flat spotting on the camshaft lobes.

Use what you will, after all it's your car not mine.

 

[demarpaint]

Madjoe- what oil/oils were they running?

Frank D

 

[kingrob]

Some noted downsides to running synthetic oil:

1. If your seals are in a questionable condition, synthetic can leak out as fast as you pour it in. (An exaggeration, mind you, but a leak can become apparent with syn where it wasn't with conventional.)

2. For various reasons, introducing synthetic to some engines can result in a serious consumption for a few OCI's. Not a big deal, but if you're running 10.00 a quart boutique labels then you may have to justify the price.

3. Some amateur racers I know don't run synthetic until about ten thousand miles after a rebuild. The reason is that the rings don't seal properly with synthetic in some cases. I do not recommend synthetic as a break in oil under any circumstance, even when the factory specs it as the recommended oil.

4. If you have an older, high compression engine you may have camshaft failure if using too slick a synthetic. I learned this firsthand on my 68 Superbee 440.

Really, in 95% of daily driving for 95% of the vehicles on the road in 95% of the climates that 95% of people experience, synthetic offers no significant protection over modern conventional. The only time I've felt compelled to use it was to extend the interval on fleet OCI's.

 

[ARB1977]

I what ever is in at the moment is what i use.

 

[webfors]

Syn rocks, you know it, I know it, my grandma knows it. It's the best because I say it is

The price difference between the PP I got on sale and on sale GTX or YB was aproximately $4 per oil change. So the argument that I'm wasting money is nonsense.

I run syn because it gives me piece of mind for my style of driving, allows me to not worry about my oci, and because it was -20 here this morning.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: kingrob
Some noted downsides to running synthetic oil:

1. If your seals are in a questionable condition, synthetic can leak out as fast as you pour it in. (An exaggeration, mind you, but a leak can become apparent with syn where it wasn't with conventional.)



I know this first hand...but the car also had 105k when I switched to synthetics. I went from an engine with no leaks to having five seals leaking within 5k miles! Replaced the seals with the timing belt and everything is fine!

I have also found an instance where even the newer oil won't handle high heat as well as synthetic...I was a Rotella 15w40 user for a long time until I started getting funny UOAs back that appeared to be caused by the oil boiling off under hard use, changed to Schaeffers 5w40 and the issue went away...

 

[aquariuscsm]

If running synthetics,I`ll only use group IV/V`s........Redline,Amsoil,Royal Purple,Mobil 1. If not,then I always run dinos,either Valvoline VR1/Pemium Conventional or Pennzoil yb.

 

[Quest]

Funny how fresh posters would all decided to chime in RE: OP's subject and go "rah, rah, rah".

Conventional oil is really closing the gap to syn, and if you are to look at the composition of the latest ILSAC GF-4 spec, in order to meet such requirements (incl. GM's Seq IV test), one has to blend at least Gp2 and Gp3 base oil and manipulate their additive blends in order to pass the spec (if you think GF-4 is "crazy" enuf, wait til "GF-5" comes along sometime in 2009).

Unless you are going after Gp4 and Gp5 based motor oil blends, otherwise, you folks are just arguing about syn, semi-syn, dino, etc. based on semantecs. This is expecially true given the fact that Mobil-1 has won a lawsuit to call it anyway they want. As a consequence: what do you think in terms of percentage you are getting when you purchase PP. Mobil-1, etc. RE: >=Gp 3 base oil?

Lastly: motor oil standards have changed so much over the past 20 yrs that what you are getting these days (API SM/ILSAC GF-4) is of no comparison to that of what your granpa or your dad used 20yrs ago. Back in those days, yes, even OTC "full syn" comes with definitive advantage over the conventional oils of yore. Now? I use MC syn-blends and conventional oil so long as it passes Seq IV test, various JASO valvetrain wear tests, HTO-06 (for Honda turbos), and most importantly, the latest ILSAC GF-4 specifications.

Q.

p.s. my observations are based on "street" grade, ordinary stock cars and engines. If you happen to have a stroked engine that requires something "special" to begin with, get custom blends instead (for nothing off the shelf would save your engine).

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: Madjoe


Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.



WHAT?????

I've been away from this board for a few months due to work/family. Why is there crazy talk like this spread not only in this thread, but throughout the board?

 

[dbvettez061]

none. period.

 

[BrianWC]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D


I've been away from this board for a few months due to work/family. Why is there crazy talk like this spread not only in this thread, but throughout the board?


You let work and family come between you and bitog? For shame....

 

[tom slick]

If you drive in moderate conditions, use the OEM spec oil, and change your oil every 3000 miles you'll see no benefits to using a synthetic. Synthetic shines when you move away from moderate.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: Madjoe


Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.



WHAT?????

I've been away from this board for a few months due to work/family. Why is there crazy talk like this spread not only in this thread, but throughout the board?


Yes ..or so it seems. A "wave" has arrived. It almost appears coordinated.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: dbvettez061
none. period.

 

[cristphoto]

To answer your question - no. One of the best attributes to synthetic oil is the lack of engine wear over the years. If you plan on getting maximum miles out of your vehicle, then synthetic is the best choice. I run Mobil One 5-20 in my Acura and I hear of many Acuras that use synthetic going well over 250,000 miles on the Acura forum.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Everyone still keeps coming back to cost...

To me, the price difference doesn't matter.

I want what is best for my car.


Then your question is irrelevant. If you want what's best for your car, you must stop using a marketing word as a proxy for performance; it's a very poor one.

If you "want what is best for (your) car," you must hire a formulator who will custom-design a fluid for your car. You must also hire an analyst (unless you are one?) to work directly with the formulator to make sure that the fluid is absolutely, positively the very best and most optimized thing you can possibly create for your car.

How optimized would you like to be? If you want best (not just good enough), $100,000 won't touch your needs. If that remains OK with you, that's terrific. Go hire the formulator and the analyst and make the best.

 

[oilboy123]

I thought the percentage was not fixed??????? Then again what do I know?

 

[HARTZSKY]

I use a wax that costs $100 on my cars. Is it that much better than the $50 wax I own? Marginally. You get that little extra 5% in looks,that makes the wax worth the money to me. I spend as much money on keeping the engine running well as I do keeping the exterior in show room condition.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: cristphoto
To answer your question - no. One of the best attributes to synthetic oil is the lack of engine wear over the years. If you plan on getting maximum miles out of your vehicle, then synthetic is the best choice. I run Mobil One 5-20 in my Acura and I hear of many Acuras that use synthetic going well over 250,000 miles on the Acura forum.
There are many honda engines that do 350,000 miles on dino oil, over the road trucks according to the major oil companies last over a million miles before overhaul. Todays oils are not the oils of the 1960s