Two Words... Synthetic Blend.
downsides to synthetic oil
- Thread starter CELICA_XX
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Originally Posted By: Dominic
Synthetic oils aren't as green because they take more energy and resources to produce and still cause the same amount of waste. Thats the best reason I can think of to not run synthetic?
That may be true with some of the less costly synthetics that are not formulated for extended use. But synthetics that are designed for extended oil change intervals equates to way less environmental waste.
CompSyn
Synthetic oils aren't as green because they take more energy and resources to produce and still cause the same amount of waste. Thats the best reason I can think of to not run synthetic?
That may be true with some of the less costly synthetics that are not formulated for extended use. But synthetics that are designed for extended oil change intervals equates to way less environmental waste.
CompSyn
But does it outweigh the energy that is expended to make the product versus the refining of Dino Oil and it's waste?
Myth? Yes
Originally Posted By: StevieC
But does it outweigh the energy that is expended to make the product versus the refining of Dino Oil and it's waste?
Don’t know the specifics on energy spent to produce conventional versus synthetic oils, but keep in mind there is a lot of hydroprocessing and chemical rearrangement going on with Group II (SM) rated oils of new.
Also, went to the auto parts store the other day and saw current pricing for leading conventional oils. The price gap of synthetics is closing…
CompSyn
But does it outweigh the energy that is expended to make the product versus the refining of Dino Oil and it's waste?
Don’t know the specifics on energy spent to produce conventional versus synthetic oils, but keep in mind there is a lot of hydroprocessing and chemical rearrangement going on with Group II (SM) rated oils of new.
Also, went to the auto parts store the other day and saw current pricing for leading conventional oils. The price gap of synthetics is closing…
CompSyn
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
It is recomended to NOT switch back to dino once you go syn.
Isn't this a well documented myth ?
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Myth? Yes
Isn't the fact that darn good blends exist....dispell any sort of notion between shifting between dino and synthetic....or synthetic to dino?????
By the way, to answer the original post.....
1. I'm a synthetic guy....so price doesn't matter to me.
2. I'm a synthetic guy....so price doesn't matter to me.
Funny, but I had to make a quick change on my 4-Runner, was able to purchase 5w20 YB easily and dirt cheap....so I poured it in (based upon great reports on this site). So yes, I strayed from synthetic...but come the end of March, PP 5W30 is going back in the rig.
Some of you will probably think I am sick in the brain....but since pouring in YB....it just bothers me that synthetic isn't in my engine....
Also...I like to spend my hard earned money on oil soooo much, that I also spoil my motorcycle....Yep, Amsoil in that baby.
It is recomended to NOT switch back to dino once you go syn.
Isn't this a well documented myth ?
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Myth? Yes
Isn't the fact that darn good blends exist....dispell any sort of notion between shifting between dino and synthetic....or synthetic to dino?????
By the way, to answer the original post.....
1. I'm a synthetic guy....so price doesn't matter to me.
2. I'm a synthetic guy....so price doesn't matter to me.
Funny, but I had to make a quick change on my 4-Runner, was able to purchase 5w20 YB easily and dirt cheap....so I poured it in (based upon great reports on this site). So yes, I strayed from synthetic...but come the end of March, PP 5W30 is going back in the rig.
Some of you will probably think I am sick in the brain....but since pouring in YB....it just bothers me that synthetic isn't in my engine....
Also...I like to spend my hard earned money on oil soooo much, that I also spoil my motorcycle....Yep, Amsoil in that baby.
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I use and enjoy expensive fishing gear.. I use some inexpensive rods and reels too for tough conditions and as back ps. I recently caught a trophy saddle blanket flounder on and inexpensive spinning rig while my high dollar casting rig was down with broken terminal tackle.
The fact is I was able to land the large fish with the inexpensive rod and reel. I didn't get to experience the smooth drag or the high speed retrival or the fine action of a super IMX 6+ rod.. I did get to experiece landing a monster fish. THe rig did the job without the tangible feedback of expense.
The fact is I was able to land the large fish with the inexpensive rod and reel. I didn't get to experience the smooth drag or the high speed retrival or the fine action of a super IMX 6+ rod.. I did get to experiece landing a monster fish. THe rig did the job without the tangible feedback of expense.
The good old I want the best for my car. What do you expect to gain by the best for your car? I am sure you have read all the fluff from the syn oil companies. Consider this fact your engine will most likley outlast your ownership of the car running any of the over the counter properly rated oil changed at factory recommended oil change intervals. Bar any mechanical problems that syn oil wouldn't prevent anyway. If the manufacture of the car recommends or requires syn oil then use syn oil with out question. Study up the posted used oil analysis on this site you will not find a bad uoa because of dino oil. If you are goingto double or triple the oil change intervals then that would be a justifiable use of syn oil or if you live where it is below 0*f then there probably is a good reason to run syn. Car has a turbo maybe syn couldn't hurt and you could push the oil change interval. running syn has certain advantages but I can not consider it the best.
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Besides price... are there ANY downsides to using synthetic oil ?
The price difference is a non-issue to me... I just want the best product for my vehicles, and I'm sure many people feel the same way.
I would especially like to hear from our members who swear by dino oil. If dino and synthetic were the same price, would you still choose dino?
Synthetic is better, no question. Molecules are closer in size that causes it to be more "slippery," more additives, more tolerant to extreme conditions, keeps your engine cleaner, won't sludge as easily, etc. If synthetic and dino were the same price, I would choose synthetic. If synthetic was more expensive, I would choose synthetic. The point is that dino is a great oil too so these days it doesn't really matter which one you use, but you can't argue it's better.
Besides price... are there ANY downsides to using synthetic oil ?
The price difference is a non-issue to me... I just want the best product for my vehicles, and I'm sure many people feel the same way.
I would especially like to hear from our members who swear by dino oil. If dino and synthetic were the same price, would you still choose dino?
Synthetic is better, no question. Molecules are closer in size that causes it to be more "slippery," more additives, more tolerant to extreme conditions, keeps your engine cleaner, won't sludge as easily, etc. If synthetic and dino were the same price, I would choose synthetic. If synthetic was more expensive, I would choose synthetic. The point is that dino is a great oil too so these days it doesn't really matter which one you use, but you can't argue it's better.
Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Besides price... are there ANY downsides to using synthetic oil ?
The price difference is a non-issue to me... I just want the best product for my vehicles, and I'm sure many people feel the same way.
I would especially like to hear from our members who swear by dino oil. If dino and synthetic were the same price, would you still choose dino?
Synthetic is better, no question. Molecules are closer in size that causes it to be more "slippery," more additives, more tolerant to extreme conditions, keeps your engine cleaner, won't sludge as easily, etc. If synthetic and dino were the same price, I would choose synthetic. If synthetic was more expensive, I would choose synthetic. The point is that dino is a great oil too so these days it doesn't really matter which one you use, but you can't argue it's better.
Q.
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Besides price... are there ANY downsides to using synthetic oil ?
The price difference is a non-issue to me... I just want the best product for my vehicles, and I'm sure many people feel the same way.
I would especially like to hear from our members who swear by dino oil. If dino and synthetic were the same price, would you still choose dino?
Synthetic is better, no question. Molecules are closer in size that causes it to be more "slippery," more additives, more tolerant to extreme conditions, keeps your engine cleaner, won't sludge as easily, etc. If synthetic and dino were the same price, I would choose synthetic. If synthetic was more expensive, I would choose synthetic. The point is that dino is a great oil too so these days it doesn't really matter which one you use, but you can't argue it's better.
Q.
The teardown appearance of engines don't lie. How the piston/cylinder walls look using a quality synthetic at 50k miles looks a lot better than one that was using dino oil for 50k miles. I can't say that all engines will look like this but after seeing over 100 engines a year for 35 years, I'm pretty certain of my experiences.
A customer that was very good with his oil change intervals (because we did all of them) using very good dino oil and using OEM oil filters had his engine come in for a head gasket replacement at 68k miles. We couldn't believe just how bad the engine looked, the crosshatch pattern was gone, there was scoring of the cylinder walls, tons of buildup around the lifters and camshaft. Another customer that came in for the same thing (blown head gasket) was one of those 2x's a year oil change people using a FRAM oil filter and a well known synthetic oil. The engine looked practically brand new at 80k miles, factory crosshatch patterns and all.
Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.
Just sharing what I got to see.
A customer that was very good with his oil change intervals (because we did all of them) using very good dino oil and using OEM oil filters had his engine come in for a head gasket replacement at 68k miles. We couldn't believe just how bad the engine looked, the crosshatch pattern was gone, there was scoring of the cylinder walls, tons of buildup around the lifters and camshaft. Another customer that came in for the same thing (blown head gasket) was one of those 2x's a year oil change people using a FRAM oil filter and a well known synthetic oil. The engine looked practically brand new at 80k miles, factory crosshatch patterns and all.
Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.
Just sharing what I got to see.
If you want the best, use synthetics. Others may do as well, but if you want the best... use the best.
is oil that costs 3 times as much as a lower cost alternative 3 times better?
will oil that costs 5 times as much as a lower cost alternative produce 1/5 the wear as the less costly oil?
will a high maintenance wife that costs 5 times as much to keep stay 5 times longer than a less expensive one or produce 5 times more pleasure?
will oil that costs 5 times as much as a lower cost alternative produce 1/5 the wear as the less costly oil?
will a high maintenance wife that costs 5 times as much to keep stay 5 times longer than a less expensive one or produce 5 times more pleasure?
Originally Posted By: Madjoe
The teardown appearance of engines don't lie. How the piston/cylinder walls look using a quality synthetic at 50k miles looks a lot better than one that was using dino oil for 50k miles. I can't say that all engines will look like this but after seeing over 100 engines a year for 35 years, I'm pretty certain of my experiences.
A customer that was very good with his oil change intervals (because we did all of them) using very good dino oil and using OEM oil filters had his engine come in for a head gasket replacement at 68k miles. We couldn't believe just how bad the engine looked, the crosshatch pattern was gone, there was scoring of the cylinder walls, tons of buildup around the lifters and camshaft. Another customer that came in for the same thing (blown head gasket) was one of those 2x's a year oil change people using a FRAM oil filter and a well known synthetic oil. The engine looked practically brand new at 80k miles, factory crosshatch patterns and all.
Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.
Just sharing what I got to see.
I'll agree with ya! Seen alot and tore down my share and without seeing the ever-so-mighty UOA done,there's definately a differance with clearances and visual inspection as well between a engine thats used regular oil vs. synthetic oil. Every thing 9 times outta 10,was the synthetic had better clearances and wear patterns.
The teardown appearance of engines don't lie. How the piston/cylinder walls look using a quality synthetic at 50k miles looks a lot better than one that was using dino oil for 50k miles. I can't say that all engines will look like this but after seeing over 100 engines a year for 35 years, I'm pretty certain of my experiences.
A customer that was very good with his oil change intervals (because we did all of them) using very good dino oil and using OEM oil filters had his engine come in for a head gasket replacement at 68k miles. We couldn't believe just how bad the engine looked, the crosshatch pattern was gone, there was scoring of the cylinder walls, tons of buildup around the lifters and camshaft. Another customer that came in for the same thing (blown head gasket) was one of those 2x's a year oil change people using a FRAM oil filter and a well known synthetic oil. The engine looked practically brand new at 80k miles, factory crosshatch patterns and all.
Synthetic blends are the worst products to buy, in order to be compliant with the "syn-blend" marketing scheme, the company only needs to add 30% syn to 70% dino oil.
Just sharing what I got to see.
I'll agree with ya! Seen alot and tore down my share and without seeing the ever-so-mighty UOA done,there's definately a differance with clearances and visual inspection as well between a engine thats used regular oil vs. synthetic oil. Every thing 9 times outta 10,was the synthetic had better clearances and wear patterns.
Celica_XX,
10, 20 or 30 years ago when synthetic oil were far surerior, todays regular motor oils have closed the gap. Todays motor oils are rivialing synthetic motor oils in their ware protection, longevity and cleanliness among other things at least to the 5000 mile mark and maybe furthur. Im not disputing syn oils mind You, I make my own blend.
Synthetic motor oils will protect better than regular motor oils under extreme conditions such as towing/hauling alot during a OCI. Or track racing alot during an OCI. Or pushing your OCI way beyond what you would do normally. Or if you lost oil pressure, there may be a difference in wheather or not you'll be able to pull over to the side of the road in time and shut down the engine. Or if you lived in the coldest parts of the world and your engine needed to start at -50* c. Or turbo/super changing and high reving at wide open throttle(WOT). But, the gap is still closing.
If you drive like a normal human being here in the U.S. then regular motor oil will be just fine. I used to drive somewhat agressivly with plenty of WOT and hard cornering, started the engine and drove off and still put on several hundred thousand miles on an engine using any dino oil in the SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ, GF nothing and 10W anything. Engine problems isn't what I've experienced in my life, it's fuel system issues that made the engine run poorly... CARBURATORS !!!!
How do you drive you vehicles and under what conditions? How far do you want to take your OCI's? You may not need the best Syn oil! Your engine may never notice it. Or maybe you do need Syn! You will have to make the choice.
10, 20 or 30 years ago when synthetic oil were far surerior, todays regular motor oils have closed the gap. Todays motor oils are rivialing synthetic motor oils in their ware protection, longevity and cleanliness among other things at least to the 5000 mile mark and maybe furthur. Im not disputing syn oils mind You, I make my own blend.
Synthetic motor oils will protect better than regular motor oils under extreme conditions such as towing/hauling alot during a OCI. Or track racing alot during an OCI. Or pushing your OCI way beyond what you would do normally. Or if you lost oil pressure, there may be a difference in wheather or not you'll be able to pull over to the side of the road in time and shut down the engine. Or if you lived in the coldest parts of the world and your engine needed to start at -50* c. Or turbo/super changing and high reving at wide open throttle(WOT). But, the gap is still closing.
If you drive like a normal human being here in the U.S. then regular motor oil will be just fine. I used to drive somewhat agressivly with plenty of WOT and hard cornering, started the engine and drove off and still put on several hundred thousand miles on an engine using any dino oil in the SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ, GF nothing and 10W anything. Engine problems isn't what I've experienced in my life, it's fuel system issues that made the engine run poorly... CARBURATORS !!!!
How do you drive you vehicles and under what conditions? How far do you want to take your OCI's? You may not need the best Syn oil! Your engine may never notice it. Or maybe you do need Syn! You will have to make the choice.
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Everyone still keeps coming back to cost...
To me, the price difference doesn't matter.
I want what is best for my car.
Then use a synthetic oil and don't look back. If you don't mind having oil shipped to you, pay the $20 and become an Amsoil Prefered customer. Gary Allen hooked me up. If you don't want to do that Mobil 1 and Pennzoil make some fine synthetic oils, that's what I use. Once off warranty I will probably take Amsoil Oil plunge.
Frank D
Everyone still keeps coming back to cost...
To me, the price difference doesn't matter.
I want what is best for my car.
Then use a synthetic oil and don't look back. If you don't mind having oil shipped to you, pay the $20 and become an Amsoil Prefered customer. Gary Allen hooked me up. If you don't want to do that Mobil 1 and Pennzoil make some fine synthetic oils, that's what I use. Once off warranty I will probably take Amsoil Oil plunge.
Frank D
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