bill in 18 states to remove your ammo

[1sttruck]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2004/11/28/553/34751

There were about 12 bags of ammonium nitrate that were not put in the barrels. McVeigh stacked them in front of the point of the barrels. McVeigh put a hole in each of the bags and poured some diesel in each of the bags and then rolled them around a bit. The barrels were not mixed or moved. McVeigh put some Tovex in each barrel. I believe that McVeigh also put a major booster charge (Tovex) at the inside point of the V shape of the barrels. I do not know if he put anything with the bags of fertilizer, but it appeared that he was priming everything to make sure it would all go off.

Kinepak was mixed and put in the major booster charge. I believe that Kinepak was also mixed and placed in each of the barrels and, I assume, the bags of fertilizer. The only initiator that I am aware of was the Primadet and at least two regular blasting caps. A Primadet was placed in each barrel on the Kinepak and I believe he placed one in a location in the center of the group of bags of ammonium nitrate. All of the Primadet came to one location. I did not really see how he did each step of the Primadet, but I believe he used two regular blasting caps with green cannon fuse to initiate the Primadet cords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

McVeigh rented a storage space, which he used to stockpile seven crates of eighteen-inch-long Tovex sausages, eighty spools of shock tube, and five hundred electric blasting caps they had stolen from a Martin Marietta Aggregates quarry in Marion, Kansas

 

[1sttruck]

India has a lower homicide rate than the US, in spite of the large population in poverty conditions much worse than we see in the US, the border conflicts, and the civil unrest. The Indian government evidently provies firearms in areas with contested borders.

At one time one could mail order a Thompson machine gun, no questions asked, and typically it came in a canvas case with two magazines. Silencers could be had too for a variety of weapons. But, we can't do so anymore. I imagine the Chinese would be willing to provide shiploads of cheap pistols and automatic wepaons if they were allowed, and consider what the country would be like if anyone could buy anything they wanted. Crates of cheap ammo at 7-11, grenades and RPGs for real trouble, crew served 12.7s for a bit of longer range punch.


When grenades are outlawed only outlaws will have grenades - the National Grenade Association.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Just to give a decent current example, look what happened in India recently with those terrorists. Now, they probably have very strict gun laws in India. But the terrorists still had automatic weapons and explosives-right?


That is what the UN is all about. They will take care of ALL the GUNS around the world.

Remember folks, 9-11-01 was done without a single firearm. Before we go after guns, should we not go after knifes and box cutters?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
India has a lower homicide rate than the US, in spite of the large population in poverty conditions much worse than we see in the US, the border conflicts, and the civil unrest. The Indian government evidently provies firearms in areas with contested borders.

At one time one could mail order a Thompson machine gun, no questions asked, and typically it came in a canvas case with two magazines. Silencers could be had too for a variety of weapons. But, we can't do so anymore. I imagine the Chinese would be willing to provide shiploads of cheap pistols and automatic wepaons if they were allowed, and consider what the country would be like if anyone could buy anything they wanted. Crates of cheap ammo at 7-11, grenades and RPGs for real trouble, crew served 12.7s for a bit of longer range punch.


When grenades are outlawed only outlaws will have grenades - the National Grenade Association.
How have I hurt you with my guns and ammo?

Why don't we try to enforce the laws we currently have and start making the people who BREAK THE LAWS pay instead of taking away someones freedoms.

Got it, you don't like guns and make dumb statements about grenades (which are illegal and NO ONE is wanting one) instead of adult comments about the real problem.

There are more people killed with trucks. Let's make them illegal. (I'll make a childish statement) But more people are killed with Trucks than guns or grenades....

Maybe India has a lower crime rate because when you do something, they kill you.

And I'm sure the 3rd world countries keep real accurate records...

 

[Mystic]

McVeigh was able to use commonly available materials like ammonium nitrate that HAS to be available in farming communities. Of course if a few thinking people are around (and people who care about anything) somebody might wonder why so much ammonium nitrate was needed by one guy. But at any rate this shows that it is silly to go around making stuff illegal. We need to go after the terrorists, not ordinary people. And people need to CARE and be able to use their heads. Why are these guys taking flying lessons and they only want to know how to control the aircraft and are not interested in learning how to land the aircraft? Why is this guy buying so much ammonium nitrate? Why are these people so interested in the water plant and taking pictures of the plant and machinery?

If explosives are stolen in a local area (such as explosives used in mining) is somebody looking into all of that? Terrorists will have to use local stuff unless they are able to just drive a big truck across the border (which to tell the truth is probably possible).

The people who worry so much about ordinary people having guns need to worry about terrorists.

And like your example about the airliners that were used in 9-11, they used boxcutters. They did not even need guns.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Mystic

And like your example about the airliners that were used in 9-11, they used boxcutters. They did not even need guns.


Maybe we need to outlaw airplanes?

 

[Mystic]

But Bill in Utah, without getting into politics that is not allowed, there will soon probably be attempts to greatly limit gun sales and ammunition sales. I can see it coming.

People worried about that ordinary guy with a gun in his house for self defense and not concerned about people who might fly an airliner into a building or a dam or a nuclear power plant.

I can see major gun control coming very soon. And with new people perhaps in the Supreme Court perhaps major changes to the Constitution. Maybe a rewriting that allows only military personnel to carry weapons. Sorry, but I can see it coming.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
But Bill in Utah, without getting into politics that is not allowed, there will soon probably be attempts to greatly limit gun sales and ammunition sales. I can see it coming.

People worried about that ordinary guy with a gun in his house for self defense and not concerned about people who might fly an airliner into a building or a dam or a nuclear power plant.

I can see major gun control coming very soon. And with new people perhaps in the Supreme Court perhaps major changes to the Constitution. Maybe a rewriting that allows only military personnel to carry weapons. Sorry, but I can see it coming.


Sad but I agree with you.

Some people don't think, they react to some things that are NOT a issue. Sorta like the boogyman....

But someone has to buck the system... And there are plenty who will.

Take care, bill

 

[Mystic]

It will be a long time until things get better also. With the wrong people on the Supreme Court goofball stuff will get passed for a long time-until we can finally replace the goofballs.

It will be a long time before we can drill for the oil and natural gas we have right here in this country.

Oh well, no use even talking about it.

Enjoy shooting your guns while you still can.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I'll be shooting my guns for a long as I'm alive.

And supporting people who support freedom!

Take care, Bill

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Now, of course, we need common sense. I am not of course saying that people should be allowed to have a .50 cal machine gun or an M60 parked out back.
Why not there are states that let responsible people own them. Use common sense . You implied a machine gun by itself is bad.

 

[Mystic]

You are correct-a machine gun or an automatic rifle is a restricted weapon and not prohibited weapon. However, I think I will let the military have the .50 cal machine guns and the tanks. Trying to defend one's house with a .50 might have bad consequences-like some of the innocent people in nearby houses getting killed. Have you ever seen a .50 in action?

And hopefully we are not at the point where we need a tank or a Bradley fighting vehicle to defend our homes. If it gets to that level we need to call the Army. Not the police or the sheriff's department.

I don't want to appear silly to the people who would ban my guns. I am not asking for a .50 or a tank or an attack helicopter. The Army and Marines and National Guard soldiers can have that stuff. Just leave my handguns and rifle and shotgun alone. And don't change the Constitution. I like it the way it is.

 

[Mystic]

Heck, forget the .50. Have you ever seen a Browning Automatic Rifle in action? Now, I would not mind shooting that old BAR at a target range just for kicks. But I don't need a BAR, much less a .50, to defend my house. I think my Glock is fairly okay for that task.

Do you use a 30-06 rifle to defend your house?

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
McVeigh was able to use commonly available materials like ammonium nitrate that HAS to be available in farming communities. Of course if a few thinking people are around (and people who care about anything) somebody might wonder why so much ammonium nitrate was needed by one guy.


My dad has a relatively small farm, and purchasing as much, if not more, was a common occurrence.

 

[TurboLuver]

People are bringing up Columbine and Tim McVeigh, those and those of that ilk have one thing in common, they are insane. I say let's ban all insane people....

 

[bulwnkl]

Quote:
Now, of course, we need common sense. I am not of course saying that people should be allowed to have a .50 cal machine gun or an M60 parked out back.


But lots of us do, and they're NEVER used in crimes. The law change in 1986 merely made automatic weapons spike upward in price.

Quote:
But it has been proven time and again that if a thinking criminal knows the people in the house are likely to own guns he goes to another house or the crime rate in that area goes down. Unless a criminal is totally zonked out on drugs any thinking person will do some serious reflecting if they hear a 12 gauge pump action shotgun having a round cycled in.


Yes, I agree.

Quote:
Heck, forget the .50. Have you ever seen a Browning Automatic Rifle in action? Now, I would not mind shooting that old BAR at a target range just for kicks. But I don't need a BAR, much less a .50, to defend my house. I think my Glock is fairly okay for that task.

Do you use a 30-06 rifle to defend your house?


Need is entirely dependent upon the circumstances. I have an ex-military 30-06 that I would absolutely use to defend my home, if that became necessary. If you honestly think that a Glock is the only thing that any circumstances could ever cause you to need, I am truly amazed. However, I do not suggest that you ought to possess an arm which you do not wish to.

Quote:
At one time one could mail order a Thompson machine gun, no questions asked, and typically it came in a canvas case with two magazines. Silencers could be had too for a variety of weapons. But, we can't do so anymore.


Wrong. We still can. You can't because you live in WA, but we can and do still have and may still buy silencers, SMGs, MGs, and destructive weapons (BTW, Tommys are SMGs, not MGs). In fact, the federal court of appeals for the 9th circuit, which includes both of our states, has ruled that there is no federal authority to prohibit mere possession of or a person making their own MG (or SMG) per se. You'd have to engage in interstate commerce, and the 9th circuit has clearly and categorically rejected the garbage blanket argument that everything these days involves interstate commerce, and thus may fall under federal authority. Your state prohibits you from owning or making these items, but that's only your state. My state constitutionally prohibits any special taxation of firearms, ammunition, or the manufacture or possession thereof, and prohibits the registration or licensing possession of same excepting licensing of concealed carry within city limits (which requirement does not apply to any shotgun or rifle, but does apply to knives, etc).

Comparing crime rates between two completely different cultures and religious bases on opposite sides of the planet is positively asinine.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: IndyFan
This makes the assumption that the purchaser and criminal are one in the same. This is exactly how the extreme left is coming to view any ammunition purchaser or gun owner.


It was the right in Oz.

Don't think for a minute that those in power regardless of leanings don't want to neuter you.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The criminals ALWAYS are able to get guns. Even if guns have to be brought in like drugs or made in illegal gunshops or if the criminals have to knock over a national guard armory. In a society where every honest citizen is disarmed a crude revolver made in an illegal shop is an awesome weapon. And one big haul of a national guard armory would mean a lot of money to some people.


Yep, down here an entire container load of Glocks due for armning the NSW Police went missing while on an interstate train.

An increasing trend is that two guys with guns hold up an armaguard van, and walk off with cash and an extra three revolvers.

 

[Tempest]

As others have stated, ammo will simply be stolen or imported. They can get thousands of tons of dope in this country a year, no reason they can't get ammo.
They don't list HOW the ammo will be marked. There will be some way to obliterate this mark just as there will be with micro stamping.
As with nearly all things of this sort, it's not about crime but about taking away the rights of the people.
This is a back door attempt at removing people's rights via making the exercise of said right to expensive and difficult.

 

[greenaccord02]

In a country where cocaine has been illegal for almost a century, I can make a call and have any reasonable amount in hand - delivered - within the hour, day or night. Not that I would, but it is just that available.

Prohibitions do nothing.