Frightening UOA on my D-max: Critical Copper

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
8
Location
SoCal
Hi Folks:

I was referred here from dieselplace, and have been reading a ton while I awaited approval. Great site. Kudos to the admins and mods!

I have a 2003 Duramax that I bought new. From the day I bought it until about 43K miles, I used Delo 400 from Costco and dropped it every 3500 miles.

At about 43K miles, I installed an OilGuard secondary, and changed oils to Delvac 5W/40.

Since then, my copper numbers have been through the roof.

oil_analysis_11_08.gif


That bottom analysis is my last one with Delo. Copper = 5.

AT 10,000 miles, I had the first batch of Delvac tested: Copper = 206!!!!

Holy smokes, so I dropped the oil, changed all the filters, and sent in a sample at 2500 miles. Copper = 68!!!!! All the other wear metals looked OK, so I figured it was copper residue from the last batch of oil ... I dunno.

So it's been a year and decided it's time to drop the oil again. I get the oil from AVLube with the kit, and figure, WTHECK, let's see what this old oil looks like.

Less than 15,000 miles on the oil. Copper is 326!!!!!

Man, I'm sure not sleeping any better since I went to OilGuard/Delvac.

What in the heck could be causing this? I'm getting ready to pull the OilGuard, sell the Delvac, and go back to my Delo 400 every 3500.

I appreciate any input I can get from this super-knowledgeable crowd.

Thanks very much!!

Rick Bin
 
How about removing the oilguard and just running the Delvac as a process of elimination?

Or retaining the oilguard and switching back to the Delo?


Don't remove both variables at once, or you won't know which caused it.
 
Welcome to the site. Wish it was for a different reason.......

Others will chime in but I believe copper would be bearing material if I am not mistaken. I would be concerned for sure.
 
Contact Dyson Analysis for an interpretation of your report. He charges $50, but I think it may be well worth it in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
I don't think Dyson can say more than any of us unless a variable is eliminated. Does the OilGuard system have copper tubing?

He might have more experience as he interprets reports from many different engines.

Alternatively, you could send this report to the ExxonMobil tech department and see what they have to say.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
I don't think Dyson can say more than any of us unless a variable is eliminated. Does the OilGuard system have copper tubing?

He might have more experience as he interprets reports from many different engines.

Alternatively, you could send this report to the ExxonMobil tech department and see what they have to say.


I'm betting this OilGuard system is leaching copper. We have seen this in the past.
 
I'm another for buying Terry Dyson's experience at interpretation.

Silicon is also elevated.
How do I read the soot % ? Is that 6.2 % ?
If so, there's your wear.
Also appears to be TBN = 0
 
Does that require 40w oil?

The report suspects the cooler. That is way too high to be something normal. I think the culprit is that or something in the bypass system you installed.

I would contact OilGuard about this.

**I see they also have a Oil Analysis program. Maybe you could try theirs.
 
Last edited:
How did you take the sample? Doesn't the Oilguard use brass fittings? We're talking ppm, so if you took the sample from those ports it could skew the results.
 
Welcome 24hourcampfire!
welcome2.gif


I saw your post over on DP first, and replied there, so please check it when you get a chance. Overall you'll get a bit more advice and insight here, though; we're a bunch of lube-geeks.

Above all, try a systematic controlled approach. Don't shotgun the topic by throwing all kinds of variables into the mix at once. If it gets better, you'll never know why, and if it doesn't, you'll have lost track of what inputs you had.

One thing that occured for me to mention is this; consider the source of oil as well. Not that Devlac 1 is a bad oil, but perhaps you got a suspect batch. You mentioned that you've run this a few times; did you get all the oil at the same time from the same lot? If so, and you have a bit left, then I would strongly urge you to consider a VOA (virgin oil analysis) sample. Perhaps, however unlikely, the Cu is going IN with the oil? At some point, you have to rule out all potential sources. I doubt it's the case, but you never know until you try. Hopefully, if you've been using the same lot of oil for all these trials, you can either confirm or reject this one issue as a variable.

Slow and steady wins the race.
 
Last edited:
Hi Guys:

I'm pretty sure it's not the oil for a couple of reason, at least:

1] These are two different batches, bought a year apart from AVLube.

2] a] I tested the first batch at 10,000 miles and had copper 206.

b] I dropped the oil and filters, and when I tested the second batch at 2500 miles, copper was 68.

c] Put another 10,000 miles or so on that second batch, and copper went up to 326, with most all the other wear metals holding steady or only showing normal gains for 10,000 miles.

There's no way for copper to increase by a multiple of 5 while everything else remains pretty much constant. . Something is releasing cooper into this oil.

Could it be the thread sealant recommended for the fittings in the OilGuard System?
 
BTW: The first sample was taken at the output hose of the OilGuard Secondary. Suspecting that my sampling was the cause, I bought an Oil Thief (pump) and fresh tubing, and did the capture/swish/dump, capture/swish/dump, capture/screw-down-top-quick method through the oil thief the last two times (tubing goes into the dipstick tube).

I don't think it's sampling either, unless I have mondo ambient copper in the atmosphere here.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
First what is made of or with copper? where is the si from ? seems all the other numbers are ok?


From what I've gathered, the worst possibility is that the copper is coming from internal engine bearings. That would suck.

The next possibility is that the copper is coming from the oil cooler. At this point, I'd take that in a heartbeat.

The next possibility is copper leaching from the OilGuard bypass system ... maybe the fittings (brass), or the thread sealant used on the fittings to keep it from leaking.

Another is the oil itself is contaminated from the manufacturer (don't think so).

And of course, the wild card ... somewhere as of yet uncontemplated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top