No TPMS will foul ABS and VSA

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Pesca

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That is the statement of the seller we met yesterday when finalizing the lease the soccer mom Odyssey.

We got quite a lot extra stuff including 2 winter tires and we were discussing the interest of buying extra rims to put the winter tires on or go to the dealer every 6 months to changes the tires on the rims (I hope you understand, even in french yesterday night, it was not that clear... so tired right now).

He told us that if we go with new rims for the winter tires, we will have to buy TPMS with them, and come anyway to the dealer to reprogram the car with the new TPMS.

I told him that I can live with a yellow light on the dashboard for 5-6 months and that I did not need the TPMS, just the rims with regular valves. That is there that he told me that not having TPMS signals for the car will foul the ABS and the stability system and could be dangerous.

It is the first time I hear this argument. Nobody at Nissan told me that and I know a lot of people going with the TPMS light on during winter time.

We decided to put winter tires already on the car, so I have 6 months to find out if it is true or if it is bullsheet from the seller (who knows that much on oil that when I asked him what type of oil the algorythm of the MM use, conventional, semisyn, or synthetic, he answered: 5w20...twice
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I'm not an automotive engineer, but I can see how that's possible. I do know that air pressure can drastically change the behavior of a tire, so I would imagine the TPMS would be an important input for a modern, sophisticated ABS or stability control system.

That said, if I were Honda, I wouldn't make the ABS and VSA stop working entirely if they couldn't see the TPMS. I'd just make them switch to some kind of default setting so they'd still work, albeit in a much cruder manner. If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably what your Odyssey does.

Try to find some better educated people at Honda to find out for sure (find a few sources).
 
I was under the impression that it was either/or. Either tire pressure was calculated via some algorithm that looks at differences in tire rotational speed due to circumference (due to pressure), and deviation from some norm, OR it used a sensor directly in the tire.

I do not see the necessity for both. It will be very interesting to see the responses.

One thing I can imagine is that if for whatever reason the ABS and stability look at all four wheel equally, instead of just one wheel vs. the other on a single axle, perhaps the system could be screwed up because it sees different rates of rotation from one axle to the other. I know this isnt the case on my BMW, but I have a far earlier ABS system on all four wheels. That said, if the person was under the impression that you were going to install just two tires, it may be somewhat true that having two different tire types on two different axles may change the readings slightly.

That said, I look forward to reading the responses, as this is interesting.

Perhaps someone will come out with a way to trick the PMS permanently, so nobody has to worry about this and we can all go back to checking the old fashioned way (not that TPMS isnt a good thing for many, as lots of folks never check...)

JMH
 
Ooops, sorry, I mislead you about my 2 tires for free: We got two tires for free with the car but we bought the other two.

I will NEVER drive with two different types of tires (except if I have a flat and until the tire is repaired or changed).

The car will have always 4 tires of the same spec, either 4 winter tires (Blizzak WS60) right now, either OEM 4 seasons tires in summer (I think he told they are Firestones).

d00df00d, if you are right that means he is right two, working with a degraded setting will lower the quality of the ABS and VSA system (for sure, it won't be turned off).

I still have to call their service department to have a second opinion on that.

JHZR2, using an algorithm to calculate the tire pressures, do you see that as a degraded version or do you see it as it work as well as using tire pressures?

TPMSs are a good thing: Road should be safer, and dealers make more money at every tire changes, either by changing the tires or with the reprogramming. The only who suffer from the TPMSs are the DIYers.
 
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Never believe a salesman of any type.


Oh, don't worry, I know that, and more I learn here, more I have proof I am right not to believe them (except maybe ex mechanic who tend to be more honest at least).

It scared me by making me believe they improve the use of the ABS with more/new information.
In theory, it is a good idea to know each tire pressure in order to modulate the braking power wheel by wheel to achieve a more straight and powerful braking.
It is probably more complicated than that to achieve this goal.

Thanks.

BTW, can I hijack my own thread?
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Is it not difficult to turn with a passenger tire? It is really square compare to a motorcycle tire.
Looks good anyway, nice.
 
I would look to the owner's manual for guidance, they will have a big ole section full of dire warnings on what you shouldn't do with the TPMS. Even the dealer service dept may not know, or may not bother to look it up for a phone caller.
 
I recently researched this issue before buying four dedicated winter wheels (no TPMS sensors)for our 2008 Toyota Sienna.

There is a button on the dash to turn off the stability control and traction control. The purpose of this is to allow you to spin your wheels if needed, for instance if you get stuck in a snow drift and have to rock yourself free.

If the wheels have no TPMS sensors, this button is disabled. In other words the lack of TPMS sensors ensures that stability and traction control is always ON. The override button does not work.

I am OK with this setup, as I figure I can always disable this "override override" if I need to by pulling a fuse.

I hope I explained all of this correctly. :)
 
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
If the wheels have no TPMS sensors, this button is disabled. In other words the lack of TPMS sensors ensures that stability and traction control is always ON. The override button does not work.


Not that I don't believe you, but could you explain where did you find this info in order me to check if my car will act the same?

There is no traction control disable button on the Odyssey, but I have one on the Rogue.
 
The Suzuki SX4 has TPMS, ESP/TC, & ABS...

Running without the TPMS sensors installed, like on your winter set of tires, results in an irritating but harmless light on the dash. That's all.
 
This is the best one I've heard in awhile! TPM systems are independent of the ABS and all other systems if they have the tire pressure sensor in the wheel.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
we have found cars with aftermarket wheels and no light. the tire shop threw the sensors in the spare.


aha... the actually put them IN the spare??
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
we have found cars with aftermarket wheels and no light. the tire shop threw the sensors in the spare.


I love it!
 
Originally Posted By: Pesca
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
If the wheels have no TPMS sensors, this button is disabled. In other words the lack of TPMS sensors ensures that stability and traction control is always ON. The override button does not work.


Not that I don't believe you, but could you explain where did you find this info in order me to check if my car will act the same?

There is no traction control disable button on the Odyssey, but I have one on the Rogue.


Pesca, I remember reading this somewhere, but now I can't find it. I'm currently researching this on other boards and will let you know what I find out.
 
I know this thread appears to have ended a long time ago, however, i wanted to let u guys know that ive struggled w TPMS too and ive found that whytpms.com has all the information u need to know about TPMS.
 
Originally Posted By: johnh28650
I know this thread appears to have ended a long time ago, however, i wanted to let u guys know that ive struggled w TPMS too and ive found that whytpms.com has all the information u need to know about TPMS.


Even this web site gets the facts wrong!

The problem - then and now - is that the different systems don't all do the same thing.

Some measure the differences in diameter. Some measure the actual pressure. Some are tied into the rest of the electronics in the car. Some are not.

You can not make blanket statements about TMPS systems and have them true for every system manufacturered.
 
CapriRacer said:
The problem - then and now - is that the different systems don't all do the same thing.

Some measure the differences in diameter. Some measure the actual pressure. Some .../quote]Capri, the TPMS systems interest me. Are you aware of aftermarket systems that are reasonably priced and will give an in-car display of actual pressure? For playing around, I'd consider reasonable at $300 or so. If junkyard sensors/transmitters are a viable option, whose are easy to integrate?
Click to expand...
 
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