Oil for a Lister CS slow speed diesel ????

[evoboy]

Wasn't quite sure where to post this so , Mods please move it if it should be in a different forum.

I have a Lister CS 6/1 6 BHP slow speed diesel stationary engine , coupled to a mains generator. The engine is a very old design , but they are immensely popular for the CHP (combined heating & power) crowd !! This is due to there amazing quality,longevity and economy.

Mine will run on WVO , WMO or WHO. Duty cycle will be 18 hours on , 6 hours off , varying loads from 50 to 100 %

Lister originally recommended an SAE 20 detergent oil for temperate use , but the engine does not have a full flow cartridge type filter , just a screen. The oil is pumped to the mains via a weir arrangement but splashed on the big end , piston , cylinder etc.
It has a deep sump separate from the big end splash trough.
My concern is that with a detergent oil keeping contaminants in suspension and no proper filter, will this accelerate engine wear ?
What oil would you guys recommend ?

 

[Jim Allen]

I lived on a remote ranch that had a Lister similar to yours as well as a Witte. The generators had been there a very long time and were used as a backup/charger to a huge bank of submarine batteries and when large amounts of power was needed. I don't know if the ranch owner should have been running something different, but he used a diesel rated SAE 30 high detergent oil for decades and the engines are still running to this day (they've been in operation since the early '60s and they were old then).

I guess my bottom line is to say that these are durable, low-stress engines and probably not overly sensitive to the issues you are concerned about. Regular oil changes should be enough for them to outlive you. Plus, the oil you use is way superior to what they were designed to use.

Here's a filtration idea to both extend the life of the oil and the engine. Build a remote filtering device with a small pump that cycles the sump oil through a fine (5-10 micron) filter on a regular basis,though not necessarily continuously. Shouldn't be too hard to plumb.

 

[pickled]

Listeroids are great! Run a 30 grade HDEO (Delo, Rotella...etc.). Remote filtration with a pump is a good idea, but I'd definitely invest in some rare earth magnets and put them all over that bad boy where the oil drains back. We can't bring these wonderful examples of robust simplicity into the USA anymore due to our EPA. I've seen that there are a lot of spare parts (sleeve kits, pistons, rings...etc.) coming out of India and China now to keep these guys going.

 

[evoboy]

Mine is an actual genuine Lister !! I did intend to go for a 'troid but as I live in the UK I was persuaded to go for the genuine article. Very glad I did , it's a magnificent piece of old school engineering.

 

[pickled]

They are absolutely bullet proof, and quick to overhaul. I've worked with quite a few "oids" in my day and the simplicity is wonderful. There's just something about manually cranking up that flywheel and hitting the compression relief valve that brings a smile to my face. I've often thought about getting one and experimenting with some ceramic coatings to improve the efficiency of the unit...but then again keeping it simple is so cool.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
evoboy - I would use what Lister originally recommended. SAE20 HD lubricants are still around are very stable lubricant

An AGRI type with Vapour Phase Inhibitor (VPI) (to inhibit corrosion) is a great advancement for low use engines

A quick look at some of my old MB WSMs show that that viscosity of HD lubricants was widely recommended - and for very good reasons too

 

[BoiseRob]

Schaeffer makes their Moly Bond X200 in straight grades from 10w to 50w.

Here's a link: http://www.schaefferoil.com/151_diesel_oil.html

Rob

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Schaeffer makes their Moly Bond X200 in straight grades from 10w to 50w.

Here's a link: http://www.schaefferoil.com/151_diesel_oil.html

Rob


But he's in the UK

FWIW, I used to use the same 15W-40 oil in the small Lister diesel on the spray rig I used in the farm tractors, (Castrol RX-Super) but I do think an xW-40 was called for there, and that engine would sometimes be used on 30*C+ days. IIRC it also had a small full flow cartridge filter.

 

[evoboy]

Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Schaeffer makes their Moly Bond X200 in straight grades from 10w to 50w.

Here's a link: http://www.schaefferoil.com/151_diesel_oil.html

Rob


Just been looking at that , is Schaeffer good stuff ?
Would be expensive to get it over to the UK though !!

 

[evoboy]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Schaeffer makes their Moly Bond X200 in straight grades from 10w to 50w.

Here's a link: http://www.schaefferoil.com/151_diesel_oil.html

Rob


But he's in the UK

FWIW, I used to use the same 15W-40 oil in the small Lister diesel on the spray rig I used in the farm tractors, (Castrol RX-Super) but I do think an xW-40 was called for there, and that engine would sometimes be used on 30*C+ days. IIRC it also had a small full flow cartridge filter.


I suspect that would be a 1500 RPM aircooled motor though. The CS is a watercooled , 650 RPM unit.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: evoboy

I suspect that would be a 1500 RPM aircooled motor though. The CS is a watercooled , 650 RPM unit.


yep.

 

[pickled]

If his lister hit 1,000 RPM it would be jumping 10 feet in the air! Definitely a low and slow style engine.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: pickled
They are absolutely bullet proof, and quick to overhaul. I've worked with quite a few "oids" in my day and the simplicity is wonderful. There's just something about manually cranking up that flywheel and hitting the compression relief valve that brings a smile to my face. I've often thought about getting one and experimenting with some ceramic coatings to improve the efficiency of the unit...but then again keeping it simple is so cool.


If I lived out on the country I would have one just to play with, might even hook a generator to it.

 

[pickled]

They are pretty quiet actually...I swear that you could run one on a 1/4 acre lot with nosey neighbors none the wiser if you routed the exhaust to your nearest gopher hole!! I seriously think that with SCR we could power a lot of homes on wood gas or waste crank/trans oil in areas where solar power isn't viable here in the states.

A friend of mine and I actually made some prints via ultrasonic and contact measurement of some critical dimensions just in case the spare parts get banned too. We were looking at setting up a "lost foam" aluminum casting operation for the structure then boring and sleeving with ceramic coated goodies. Gosh darnit I had to go pick up a consulting gig for the last year to screw that plan up!

 

[evoboy]

Due to their low speed and massive construction they are pretty quiet , particularly if the exhaust is used to gas vermin !! LOL !!
This is mine at the previous owners location :-

This particular set up is known as a Start-O-Matic , a complete automatic generator unit supplied on a cast iron base plate , engineered to be nuke proof !!! The unit self starts from 24 volt battery supply as soon as a load is applied or the line goes down. When running the batteries are charged. The whole unit weighs 2100 pounds !!! The engine stands around 4 feet high to the top of the rocker cover.

 

[evoboy]

Another shot :-

 

[Jim Allen]

Enjoyable thread, evoboy, and thanks for the pics! The Lister I saw was an air cooled, as was the Witte. The Witte was the big boy and while the exhaust was quiet, if you were anywhere close, you could feel the "thump" when it fired through your feet. Keep us posted.

 

[pickled]

Thanks for the Lister Pin-up Shots Evoboy! It's amazing how few people even know what the splendors of these motors are. Automatic start is a pretty nice feature. What fuel are you running in the colder months? Ours didn't like to fire on #2 diesel when it was <25F.

 

[evoboy]

I have only just commenced the project but I intend to use WVO or WHO. The fuel supply will be pre-heated to reduce viscosity in deference to the fuel pump and injector , but starting wouldn't be a problem as it it is self started by the starter side of the generator unit. There is a growing number of people using these old motors for CHP projects , one of the biggest forums for this specific engine and the Indian clones is in the USA !!!

 

[pickled]

Kind of funny that this is the case seeing as these wonderful specimens are banned from importation to the US. Our EPA practically wants to have us file air use permits before firing one up! Granted I'm sure that the emissions of NOx are higher KW for KW compared to a coal powered behemoth feeding the grid, but again a urea based catalyst could be used to keep the beast friendly. I'll have to look into those forums again. I'm glad that you have a source of WVO and WHO...you definitely will want to consider using a tough oil to couple with that fuel source. I recommend a PAO or POE formulation...Mobil markets some excellent diesel oils that would do well in your sump.