Ugh, more honda 3.5L break in questions

burnout · Mar 5, 2005

Alright, I've read a TON of material about leaving the factory fill in for 3500+ miles in these engines.

Most manufacturers recommend a light, slow speed break in period. This extends break in.

@ 7 miles right after I got my '05 Vue, I floored it MANY times up a steep hill, flats... Dead stop floorings.... Etc...

I'm sure this helped 'accelerate' break in

Would waiting 3500 miles really make sense in my case? I've had the car since mid january, and it has 800mi on it now. Every day that I drive it (usually everyday) I floor it at least once to get my 250hp fix. I'm eager to get the factory fill out, then change to a dino for 2000 miles... Then probably M1 syn. OR: Whatever you guys think is best

The Critic · Mar 5, 2005

My advice:

Drain the factory fill at 1000 miles, refill with Mobil Drive Clean 5000 and a Supertech filter for 2000 miles, then run Mobil 1 5W/20 for 5K.

Have in analyzed with a TBN reading by Butler, then extend OCIs from there.

EDIT- Looked up vehicle information on Edmunds', MAX OCI apparently is 6,000 miles.

Michael

[ March 05, 2005, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Michael Wan ]

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 5, 2005

I have the same engine as you in my 04 Saturn Vue. Peruse the UOA section for some data on it. I didn't floor it until 2000 miles. Just change the oil. There's too much break-in junk in there. Get rid of it. A $7.77 jug of Pennzoil at Walmart will set your mind at ease!

burnout · Mar 5, 2005

I respect both of your opinions, and will probably consider them, but what is the opinion from someone that might want to keep the oil in? I want to hear pros/cons of leaving the factory fill in for the full ~3000. I really don't want to leave it in that long.

"Drain the factory fill at 1000 miles, refill with Mobil Drive Clean 5000 and a Supertech filter for 2000 miles, then run Mobil 1 5W/20 for 5K."

Did you recommend that because of my good break in habits, or just a personal opinion? Just wondering

(Draining at 1000 I mean)

I'm ASSUMING the rings are well sealed even at 800. I drive the car REAL hard, but still baby it.

I'm really hoping that draining it early, without the factory fill additives, will still keep this engine in great shape.

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 5, 2005

burnout, With your driving style, I would really like to see a UOA of your oil as it is right now. Would you be willing to take a sample and post it here?

burnout · Mar 5, 2005

I have a kit waiting downstairs!

Would you primarily like to see how much wear metal is in the oil?

Hopefully I'll do an oil change with Havoline soon, I just read a VOA on the new GF-4 stuff, and the moly is insanely high.

I love having an SUV that drives like a sports sedan.

The Critic · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by burnout:
I respect both of your opinions, and will probably consider them, but what is the opinion from someone that might want to keep the oil in? I want to hear pros/cons of leaving the factory fill in for the full ~3000. I really don't want to leave it in that long.

"Drain the factory fill at 1000 miles, refill with Mobil Drive Clean 5000 and a Supertech filter for 2000 miles, then run Mobil 1 5W/20 for 5K."

Did you recommend that because of my good break in habits, or just a personal opinion? Just wondering

(Draining at 1000 I mean)

I'm ASSUMING the rings are well sealed even at 800. I drive the car REAL hard, but still baby it. I'm really hoping that draining it early, without the factory fill additives, will still keep this engine in great shape.

The reason that I recommended dumping the factory fill at 1000 miles was completely unrelated to your hard driving style. The nickname for the 3.5L Honda Engine is the "copper-puking V6" since it produces an extremely high amount of copper.

PROS and CONS of leaving the factory fill in:

PROS: 1) Assurance that you've followed Honda's recommendations and that your engine will have "supposedly" broken-in the way it was designed to.
2) So that you can sleep at night without constantly worrying about whether or not you've damaged your engine by not leaving in the factory fill for the specified amount of time.

CONS: Engine has extremely high copper. Leaving in the factory fill takes longer for wear metals to drop. Possible that the abrasive oil may cause premature wear to the engine. (maybe)

By the way, consider getting Butler's oil analysis service. Its only $12 for the analysis, compared to $20 for Blackstone's.

Michael

The Critic · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by burnout:
I have a kit waiting downstairs!

Would you primarily like to see how much wear metal is in the oil?

Hopefully I'll do an oil change with Havoline soon, I just read a VOA on the new GF-4 stuff, and the moly is insanely high.

I love having an SUV that drives like a sports sedan.

Probably even higher than the moly content in the factory fill. Here is a UOA of my friend's 2004 Acura TL with close to 5K on the factory fill:
2004 Acura TL-Factory Fill

Michael

ex_MGB · Mar 5, 2005

Honda makes a solid engine but with a tremendous down side - absolutely, positively without a scooch of wiggle room, you must leave the factory break-in oil in the engine for at least 3,500 miles. The reason is self-evident.

It's excruciating, but if it helps, I'm going through the exact same agony on my new '05 Ody

BTW, I think you did good on the break-in, it's all in the first 20 miles. My Ody rolled off the lot with 3.5 miles. On the way home I used a lot of 4/5 throttle with subsequent off throttle downshifts to seat those rings in. Finally, for minimal oil usage throughout the life of the vehicle, a good dino (Honda) with 3-5k change intervals up to the first 20k on the engine is not bad insurance. The jury, unlike for the Nissan VQ, is still out on this.

[ March 06, 2005, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

The Critic · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ex_MGB:
Honda makes a solid engine but with a tremendous down side - absolutely, positively without a scooch of wiggle room, you must leave the factory break-in oil in the engine for at least 3,500 miles. The reason is self-evident.

Please explain your reasoning behind that. Look at ToyotaNSaturn's VUE, he has over 20K now and his factory fill came out at just over 700 miles. Yet, his does not even burn a drop of oil.

Michael

ex_MGB · Mar 5, 2005

"To close your ears to even the best counter-arguement once the decision has been taken: sign of a strong character. Thus an occasional will to stupidity"

BGE 107

[ March 06, 2005, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

burnout · Mar 5, 2005

If I switch to havoline oil, I won't be depriving the engine of the moly content that the factory fill has, correct? Wouldn't that be a good equivalent to the factory fill, while still getting out the old, metal filled oil?

Vstrom · Mar 5, 2005

Drop the oil early and use a high moly oil. I have a Pilot and I left the original oil in for 2000 miles...drove me crazy to do so. I've ALWAYS dropped original oil by 500 in other cars. At the time, back in 2003, I didn't know there was high moly in the original oil. Knowing what I know now I'd have dropped it soon and replaced it with something with high moly. Pilot now has 33,000 and doing well, running Motorcraft 5w-20 in it, no useage.

Vstrom · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Wan:

EDIT- Looked up vehicle information on Edmunds', MAX OCI apparently is 6,000 miles.

Michael

Same engine in the Honda Pilot has a max OCI of 7500 miles

Not in MY Pilot it doesn't....I'm doing 5000 miles.

ex_MGB · Mar 5, 2005

If I switch to havoline oil, I won't be depriving the engine of the moly content that the factory fill has, correct? Wouldn't that be a good equivalent to the factory fill, while still getting out the old, metal filled oil?

Define "metal filled oil". I am leaving in my Honda special factory break-in oil until 3,500 miles. It is very painful but I am consoled by the thought that suffering ennobles.

buster · Mar 5, 2005

I have an 05 Accord with the 2.4L. I took it easy the first 600 miles. I constantly varied the rpms from 2k to 4k rpms, no higher. I follow the owners manual. In the Ram manual, it stated to wait until 300 miles then WOT several times to help ensure good break-in. For the Honda I'm going to leave the oil in their for 5k. I see no problems doing this. The break-in metals are very low for most engines today so dumping the oil early is a waste IMO. I'll put synthetic in at 5k miles.

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ex_MGB:
Honda makes a solid engine but with a tremendous down side - absolutely, positively without a scooch of wiggle room, you must leave the factory break-in oil in the engine for at least 3,500 miles. The reason is self-evident.

I must be really simple-minded if it's self-evident and I can't find that reason!

Interesting to note the Saturn dealers make no mention of this "special fatory fill" when the Honda dealers essentially tell the customer that the world will end if they drain it early.

Given this policy dichotomy, that leaves a LOT of wiggle room. If it's THAT important, then why didn't Honda mandate that this same speech be given to Saturn customers?

My advice is always the same: drain it early, and use a high moly oil. That's what I did and the UOA's paint a more detailed picture than the hype over the factory fill.

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by burnout:
I have a kit waiting downstairs!

Would you primarily like to see how much wear metal is in the oil?

Yes, in relation to all the copper in there, too. Most people who "get in" to the engine early don't take UOAs. Heck, most people don't take a UOA at all!

burnout · Mar 6, 2005

To everyone that says 'leave the oil in for the full 3500,' I've already made a solution for that. Putting in a high moly oil, such as havoline GF-4!

My question is, and has been... Because of my 'accelerated' break-in, would this be the equivalent of leaving the factory fill in for 3500 miles?

As of now, my plan is to drain the factory fill @ 1000, and run havoline 5w-20 dino for 2000 miles. Then M1.

Just to clear all that up one more time: I 'broke in' the engine early by flooring it a LOT, and hopefully seating the rings early. This is what honda wants to happen over the span of 3500 miles. I did it in 1000 (or so I hope, but theres a good chance I did). High moly oil + Already broken in engine = equivalent of leaving factory fill in for 3500, and lightly running the engine for 3500.

mechtech · Mar 6, 2005

exMGB - What is the secret "self evident" reason to leave the factory oil in that long?
Please enlighten us.

Ugh, more honda 3.5L break in questions

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