Substitute for vw 502 oil

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raaizin

raaizin

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I have a 2007 A6 and currently change the oil every 5k miles using Mobil 1 Euro Blend. I am not a fan of the longer OCI's which Audi recommends. Once the warranty is up I would like to switch to an SM oil and dump it every 4k or so. The oil gets quite dark after only 3k miles and that is the reason why I would like to go to a shorter OCI.I keep my cars for over 200k miles.
Other than the extra oil that I would waste, does anyone see any damage which I might cause the car. It takes 8 quarts per oil change.

Ray
 
Originally Posted By: Spartuss
That's a very large sump that is capable of longer OCI's. Which A6 model do you ?
have

It is the 3.2 V6. I dont really like to go that long on the OCI. I think Audi recommends 10k miles.
 
If you're dead set on running a conventional oil in this motor, I'd use a CJ-4/SM rated 10w-30 in the winter and a 15w-40 for ambient temps > 50F. The quality of commercial engine oils is significantly better (and more consistent), than the cheap stuff sold for the passenger car market.

A 5000 mile change interval will be conservative, given the design parameters of this engine.
 
Not sure if this is a direct inject engine, but if so, it probably has killer fuel dilution so you wanna use a high quality oil. I'd stick with at least a Vw502 oil and drain it at 5K max. Recent VW/Audi motors have some cam lobe wear issues. No way would I follow the manufacturer's OCI of 10K miles even with VW502 oils. I know two VW mechanics who tell me it is not uncommon for them to replace fuel pump followers or cams due to excessive wear at around 40K miles. I'm willing to bet more frequent oil changes would reduce the wear. FYI, I am doing 3K changes with a VW502 synthetic on my 07 Passat.

BTW, for those recommending that he follow factory OCI recommendations, VW has already lost all credibility with their 1.8T sludging problems, most of which occurred under dealership watch.
 
VeeDubb,

The 3.2 V8 FSI engine has a different fuel pump cam follower design than the 2.0 4 cylinder engine. The 3.2 and 4.2L engines are 2nd generation designs and use a roller follower. The 2.0L VW and Audi engines were a VW design and use a direct cam follower which is subject to wear. There is a TSB on this. The solution was to use better hardening on the cam, to improve the wear situation. Unfortunately, since the engine fuel dilutes, it also reduces the effectiveness of extreme pressure additives, like ZDDP, which the fuel washes away.

Raaizin,

I have a 2008 A6 with the 3.2L V6 FSI engine, and can confirm that it does fuel dilute. I'm currently running RLI Biosyn SAE 40 in the engine with good results. It should easily run 10K miles with lower wear. (I had some extra available in the garage.) I'll be switching to RLI Biosyn 5W40 for my next OCI, which is the oil that I had custom formulated for the RS4 V8 engine. That engine and the V6 share almost all of the same features.
 
RI_RS4,
Thanks for clarifying the design of the A6 engine.
FYI, I was getting my oil canged at the dealer the other day and brought my own VW502 oil. They put on the invoice "used the customer's oil." I asked him if he can note that it is a VW502 oil in case of future warranty issues. He refused to do it saying that he has "no idea what oil is in the bottle I brought." I said the seal is not even broken and the VW502 is printed on the bottle. He still refused and said make sure you keep your receipts, that's your recourse. This pi$$ed me off because my normal service advisor who doesn't give me a hard time wasn't there.

But the moral of the story is that when bringing your own oil, be very certain that you are dealing with a non-anal retentive service advisor or you can be screwed down the road.
 
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
..."no idea what oil is in the bottle I brought." I said the seal is not even broken and the VW502 is printed on the bottle. He still refused and said make sure you keep your receipts, that's your recourse. This pi$$ed me off because my normal service advisor who doesn't give me a hard time wasn't there.


Classic case of avoiding responsibility by tech/whoever and representative of poor VW service that many encounter at the dealers. Totally ridiculous on their part. They think you are going to pour out the oil in the bottle, add different oil and then somehow reseal it? Give me break. IDIOTS!

FYI here are some good responses I got at tdiclub for how to document your own oil changes. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=223548

I like the keep receipts plus photos ideas. That seems like pretty bulletproof documentation to me. My feeling is the fewer times my car sees a dealer the better. I trust good indy mechanics but not the dealers. A lot of them don't even know much about the engine or tranny they are working on.
 
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Have heard that it's a good idea to keep the "break in oil" (I hate to use that term, but anyway) the full 5000 miles for the 2.O FSI motor so I am currently doing that.

My question though is, "Is the car still breaking in beyond 5000 miles and should I therefore keep something close to the break-in oil in there for the next oil change (and then change to what I want at 10k)?"

Or should I go ahead and use an ultra-low wear oil (vs. the vw recommended syntec 5w40) at 5k miles and not worry about it? Not trying to hijack this thread, seems to fit here. Thanks for any help or opinions/ideas.
 
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saaber1, the advisor's response has convinced me to go back and just let the dealer put in whatever the [censored] they want to. If that is Syntec 5w-40, so be it. They don't reward you for going above and beyond to maintain the car. Maybe I'll just make sure I let my cam lobe wear out before my warranty runs out and let them replace it on their nickel. I've been at this dealership for seven years and I'm sure this jacka$$ has seen me there more than once, because I've seen him a lot. But this was the first and last time I'll deal with him.
 
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'VW has already lost all credibility with their 1.8T sludging problems, most of which occurred under dealership watch.'

The dealers were going by old specs . My 99 Passat 1.8T did not call for spec 502.0 when I bought the car new . I used Mobil1 from the beginning but was told by the service writers that it wasn't required . Service writers being nothing more than clerks I ignored them .
VW updated their spec in this country about three or four years ago by which time the sludge problem had already messed up a few engines .
 
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
saaber1, the advisor's response has convinced me to go back and just let the dealer put in whatever the [censored] they want to. If that is Syntec 5w-40, so be it. They don't reward you for going above and beyond to maintain the car. Maybe I'll just make sure I let my cam lobe wear out before my warranty runs out and let them replace it on their nickel. I've been at this dealership for seven years and I'm sure this jacka$$ has seen me there more than once, because I've seen him a lot. But this was the first and last time I'll deal with him.


That's why I'll I'll never buy a VW. I mean, give me a break.

A short story to share, I told my parents to buy a 05 V6 Passat wagon because they wanted a wagon, in 2005. I don't think there was an affordable and sizeable wagon except the Outback/Legacy and the Passat at that time. (Refuse to buy a Big 3).

This year, the car leaked all of it's coolant. Had to flatbed the car to a dealer. Dealer told my father that a coolant line in the engine bay had a leak in it, due to "aggressive" (????!!!!) driving. So it wasn't covered under warranty. I couldn't believe it. So I called the service adviser and he told me the same thing. Basically I proceeded to ask him where the line was and if the engine bay undertray was there, how could "aggressive" driving cause damage to the line, which he told me was plastic. After I asked him that, he "checked" and came back and said it would be covered under warranty..

It's this kind of garbage that will keep me away for VW/Audi.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: raaizin
I have a 2007 A6 and currently change the oil every 5k miles using Mobil 1 Euro Blend. I am not a fan of the longer OCI's which Audi recommends. Once the warranty is up I would like to switch to an SM oil and dump it every 4k or so. The oil gets quite dark after only 3k miles and that is the reason why I would like to go to a shorter OCI.I keep my cars for over 200k miles.
Other than the extra oil that I would waste, does anyone see any damage which I might cause the car. It takes 8 quarts per oil change.

Ray


Follow the VW502 or 505 spec, whatever the owner's manual says. As mentioned earlier and on this forum, color of oil is not an absolute indicator of the ability of the oil to lubricate the engine.

IMHO, you can go with a 5000 mile (or longer if you do a lot o highway driving) or 6 month OCI. Just do an oil analysis once or twice to see how the oil is holding up. The cost of the anaylysis is going to be far less than the cost of the 8 quarts of synthetic per change.
 
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
..."no idea what oil is in the bottle I brought." I said the seal is not even broken and the VW502 is printed on the bottle. He still refused and said make sure you keep your receipts, that's your recourse. This pi$$ed me off because my normal service advisor who doesn't give me a hard time wasn't there.


Classic case of avoiding responsibility by tech/whoever and representative of poor VW service that many encounter at the dealers. Totally ridiculous on their part. They think you are going to pour out the oil in the bottle, add different oil and then somehow reseal it? Give me break. IDIOTS!

FYI here are some good responses I got at tdiclub for how to document your own oil changes. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=223548

I like the keep receipts plus photos ideas. That seems like pretty bulletproof documentation to me. My feeling is the fewer times my car sees a dealer the better. I trust good indy mechanics but not the dealers. A lot of them don't even know much about the engine or tranny they are working on.


Well, I just spoke to my regular service advisor by phone and he assured me that if any dealer in the U.S. questioned my oil choices and tries to deny my warranty, he'd back me up. He said just have them or the regional service rep call him directly and he'd make sure. So my blood pressure has returned to normal now
grin2.gif


It's amazing how much difference there is in service advisers even within one dealer.
 
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
..."no idea what oil is in the bottle I brought." I said the seal is not even broken and the VW502 is printed on the bottle. He still refused and said make sure you keep your receipts, that's your recourse. This pi$$ed me off because my normal service advisor who doesn't give me a hard time wasn't there.


Classic case of avoiding responsibility by tech/whoever and representative of poor VW service that many encounter at the dealers. Totally ridiculous on their part. They think you are going to pour out the oil in the bottle, add different oil and then somehow reseal it? Give me break. IDIOTS!

FYI here are some good responses I got at tdiclub for how to document your own oil changes. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=223548

I like the keep receipts plus photos ideas. That seems like pretty bulletproof documentation to me. My feeling is the fewer times my car sees a dealer the better. I trust good indy mechanics but not the dealers. A lot of them don't even know much about the engine or tranny they are working on.


Well, I just spoke to my regular service advisor by phone and he assured me that if any dealer in the U.S. questioned my oil choices and tries to deny my warranty, he'd back me up. He said just have them or the regional service rep call him directly and he'd make sure. So my blood pressure has returned to normal now
grin2.gif


It's amazing how much difference there is in service advisers even within one dealer.


Keep in touch with him even if he leaves the dealership!
 
amazing so many people still swear allegiance to cars w/ such stringent oil req and finicky sevice issues. German engineering, bah.
I for one would like to thank you all for the bad PR for the domestics and keeping prices down, so I can buy cars like my low maintenance, high reliability, high utility, fun to drive, sub-$20K, take-any-oil-I-put-in-it-doesn't-matter Saturn VUE.
thanks, I appreciate it. I don't miss my VWs at all, esp after reading threads like this.
 
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