It takes energy to shear the 5w30 into a 20wt. Might as well start with the 5w20 and save the energy for propulsion.
Great UOA.
Great UOA.
07 corolla, YB Penn. 5w30, 4814 miles
- Thread starter Artemedes
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Artemedes
This OCI was also the second on the same toyota oem oil filter (10k total). When doing this oil change I changed both the oil filter and the air filter and refilled with more conventional Penn. 5w30.
You mean you change oil filter every other oil change? Why?
This OCI was also the second on the same toyota oem oil filter (10k total). When doing this oil change I changed both the oil filter and the air filter and refilled with more conventional Penn. 5w30.
You mean you change oil filter every other oil change? Why?
Originally Posted By: buster
Spend $10qt and get 20k out of the oil or once a year.
Spend 4 to 5 times as much, blow the warranty and in the end who knows if you have damaged the engine?
Remember I ran ASL to 9.7k and its TBN was not much better than this one.
IN THE SAME ENGINE.
And 90% highway.
Your suggestion is WRONG. I would NEVER suggest some one run any oil 20k when they are doing mostly city.
Even Amsoil would NOT recommend it.
Become a dealer Buster?
Spend $10qt and get 20k out of the oil or once a year.
Spend 4 to 5 times as much, blow the warranty and in the end who knows if you have damaged the engine?
Remember I ran ASL to 9.7k and its TBN was not much better than this one.
IN THE SAME ENGINE.
And 90% highway.
Your suggestion is WRONG. I would NEVER suggest some one run any oil 20k when they are doing mostly city.
Even Amsoil would NOT recommend it.
Become a dealer Buster?
Buster was probably thinking of his Honda. 15K yearly sounds like normal mix driving.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
Bill is good enough to post his findings. He is showing the good value of modern engine oils while at the same time this is a form of entertainment. Compared to what I spend fishing or gardening the oil hobby thing... it's chump change.
Bill has data and his recomendations are based on data and observation of facts.
Bill has data and his recomendations are based on data and observation of facts.
Artemedes,
Everyone gets all wrapped up into whether Pennzoil YB, the gold standard for conventional oils, does or doesn't have any moly in their newest formulation.
Things change. There are pros and cons to moly and no one knows this better than Pennzoil. I am sure they are reformulating in preparation for GF-5. Results are what count and looking at yours, it would be extremely tough to make a case against using Pennzoil YB again.
And concerning the shear factor, the 5W-20 sheared from 8.4 (latest 04/08 specs) to 8.24 or a trivial 1.9% compared to an average shear for the last two runs of PP 5W-20 of 5.67% (8.46 VOA to 7.98UOA). And let's not even calculate the Pennzoil YB 5W-30 shear which starts out at 10.5VOA.
All your wear rates are considerable lower. I wouldn't change anything. And arguably, in most American/Japanese engines I think 5w-20 is superior to 5w-30 regardless of the oil or manufacturer's recommendations as long as the OCI is kept at a reasonable level.
As dnewton3 always says, synthetics have their place. Low temperature environments (turbocharged/high loads such as racing/towing) or engine shearing monsters like the audis. In a standard passenger engine usage pattern with sane driving unless OCI extension is the goal synthetics compared to SM/GF-4 dino oils make little sense today. And I predict that GF-5 oils will make this trend even more clear.
And if you want to extend your intervals to say 7500 miles, then realize that your oil selection and by necessity change (in most engines anyway) from dino to at least GroupIII oils such as PP may bring with it wear compromises.
Whether you select PP in 5w-20, Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP or move up to Amsoil most of the time you only gain interval life, not engine life or lowered wear rates.
I think glennc & Bill in Utah have it right in their estimations about the superiority of GroupII+ in most engines that fall into the standard engine/usage categories concerning wear rates. And I am not convinced that using Pennzoil YB, Mobil 5000 or MC will eventually lead to disposits that necessitate AutoRX in a well maintained engine as opposed to an engine maintained with synthetic oil like Mobil 1 which we all know will keep things "squeaky clean".
Just my .02 worth. YMMV
Everyone gets all wrapped up into whether Pennzoil YB, the gold standard for conventional oils, does or doesn't have any moly in their newest formulation.
Things change. There are pros and cons to moly and no one knows this better than Pennzoil. I am sure they are reformulating in preparation for GF-5. Results are what count and looking at yours, it would be extremely tough to make a case against using Pennzoil YB again.
And concerning the shear factor, the 5W-20 sheared from 8.4 (latest 04/08 specs) to 8.24 or a trivial 1.9% compared to an average shear for the last two runs of PP 5W-20 of 5.67% (8.46 VOA to 7.98UOA). And let's not even calculate the Pennzoil YB 5W-30 shear which starts out at 10.5VOA.
All your wear rates are considerable lower. I wouldn't change anything. And arguably, in most American/Japanese engines I think 5w-20 is superior to 5w-30 regardless of the oil or manufacturer's recommendations as long as the OCI is kept at a reasonable level.
As dnewton3 always says, synthetics have their place. Low temperature environments (turbocharged/high loads such as racing/towing) or engine shearing monsters like the audis. In a standard passenger engine usage pattern with sane driving unless OCI extension is the goal synthetics compared to SM/GF-4 dino oils make little sense today. And I predict that GF-5 oils will make this trend even more clear.
And if you want to extend your intervals to say 7500 miles, then realize that your oil selection and by necessity change (in most engines anyway) from dino to at least GroupIII oils such as PP may bring with it wear compromises.
Whether you select PP in 5w-20, Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP or move up to Amsoil most of the time you only gain interval life, not engine life or lowered wear rates.
I think glennc & Bill in Utah have it right in their estimations about the superiority of GroupII+ in most engines that fall into the standard engine/usage categories concerning wear rates. And I am not convinced that using Pennzoil YB, Mobil 5000 or MC will eventually lead to disposits that necessitate AutoRX in a well maintained engine as opposed to an engine maintained with synthetic oil like Mobil 1 which we all know will keep things "squeaky clean".
Just my .02 worth. YMMV
Originally Posted By: smokey1
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
I'd rather use DATA (Let me see your UOAs as I can not seem to find one that you have posted) and years of experience instead of "what the oil feels like" and such.
At least I spend the $$ PROVING what I'm saying in my app. I see that you don't get it. So just ignore me.
Also, I like being called Oil Myth buster than God of oil...
Others on this board have called me that.
To you, Mister Oil myth buster.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
I'd rather use DATA (Let me see your UOAs as I can not seem to find one that you have posted) and years of experience instead of "what the oil feels like" and such.
At least I spend the $$ PROVING what I'm saying in my app. I see that you don't get it. So just ignore me.
Also, I like being called Oil Myth buster than God of oil...
Others on this board have called me that.
To you, Mister Oil myth buster.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Bill is good enough to post his findings. He is showing the good value of modern engine oils while at the same time this is a form of entertainment. Compared to what I spend fishing or gardening the oil hobby thing... it's chump change.
Bill has data and his recomendations are based on data and observation of facts.
Thank you!
Bill is good enough to post his findings. He is showing the good value of modern engine oils while at the same time this is a form of entertainment. Compared to what I spend fishing or gardening the oil hobby thing... it's chump change.
Bill has data and his recomendations are based on data and observation of facts.
Thank you!
Originally Posted By: Artemedes
Hi Bill,
I generally agree with most of your comments. When I said I was thinking of going back to PP I was going to extend the run to at least 7500 miles.
Is the YB 5w20 more shear stable than the 5w30? The 5w30 obviously did the job it was supposed to, but I don't think I want to try the 5w20 if it is going to shear like the 5w20. The PP 5w20 didn't shear at all.
With a TBN of 1.7 with my driving habits I would just feel more comfortable with the PP beyond 5000 miles. Especially with winter salted roads.
The current fill is another run of YB 5w30, I will take it to 5k miles. This will put me back into beginning of cold weather. My Garage is not heated and I would like to just run the PP until warmer spring weather. If my driving is consistent with last year I will have to take the oil pretty close to 7500 miles to do so. If that experiment comes out well I am thinking just doing 2 OCI a year with synthetic like PP. As the UOA above shows, the tbn is already getting low at 5k miles.
As usual I will continue to get UOA so I have real facts in my engine with my driving style to base my decisions on.
Hi Bill,
I generally agree with most of your comments. When I said I was thinking of going back to PP I was going to extend the run to at least 7500 miles.
Is the YB 5w20 more shear stable than the 5w30? The 5w30 obviously did the job it was supposed to, but I don't think I want to try the 5w20 if it is going to shear like the 5w20. The PP 5w20 didn't shear at all.
With a TBN of 1.7 with my driving habits I would just feel more comfortable with the PP beyond 5000 miles. Especially with winter salted roads.
The current fill is another run of YB 5w30, I will take it to 5k miles. This will put me back into beginning of cold weather. My Garage is not heated and I would like to just run the PP until warmer spring weather. If my driving is consistent with last year I will have to take the oil pretty close to 7500 miles to do so. If that experiment comes out well I am thinking just doing 2 OCI a year with synthetic like PP. As the UOA above shows, the tbn is already getting low at 5k miles.
As usual I will continue to get UOA so I have real facts in my engine with my driving style to base my decisions on.
Originally Posted By: Tucson Five-O
Artemedes,
Everyone gets all wrapped up into whether Pennzoil YB, the gold standard for conventional oils, does or doesn't have any moly in their newest formulation.
Things change. There are pros and cons to moly and no one knows this better than Pennzoil. I am sure they are reformulating in preparation for GF-5. Results are what count and looking at yours, it would be extremely tough to make a case against using Pennzoil YB again.
And concerning the shear factor, the 5W-20 sheared from 8.4 (latest 04/08 specs) to 8.24 or a trivial 1.9% compared to an average shear for the last two runs of PP 5W-20 of 5.67% (8.46 VOA to 7.98UOA). And let's not even calculate the Pennzoil YB 5W-30 shear which starts out at 10.5VOA.
All your wear rates are considerable lower. I wouldn't change anything. And arguably, in most American/Japanese engines I think 5w-20 is superior to 5w-30 regardless of the oil or manufacturer's recommendations as long as the OCI is kept at a reasonable level.
As dnewton3 always says, synthetics have their place. Low temperature environments (turbocharged/high loads such as racing/towing) or engine shearing monsters like the audis. In a standard passenger engine usage pattern with sane driving unless OCI extension is the goal synthetics compared to SM/GF-4 dino oils make little sense today. And I predict that GF-5 oils will make this trend even more clear.
And if you want to extend your intervals to say 7500 miles, then realize that your oil selection and by necessity change (in most engines anyway) from dino to at least GroupIII oils such as PP may bring with it wear compromises.
Whether you select PP in 5w-20, Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP or move up to Amsoil most of the time you only gain interval life, not engine life or lowered wear rates.
I think glennc & Bill in Utah have it right in their estimations about the superiority of GroupII+ in most engines that fall into the standard engine/usage categories concerning wear rates. And I am not convinced that using Pennzoil YB, Mobil 5000 or MC will eventually lead to disposits that necessitate AutoRX in a well maintained engine as opposed to an engine maintained with synthetic oil like Mobil 1 which we all know will keep things "squeaky clean".
Just my .02 worth. YMMV
Your 2 cents are very well stated! (wish I could compose like you)
Been here for a while and only 17 posts? (must be someone who reads then thinks and THEN posts)
Wish you were posting more and others around here less.
Take care, bill
Artemedes,
Everyone gets all wrapped up into whether Pennzoil YB, the gold standard for conventional oils, does or doesn't have any moly in their newest formulation.
Things change. There are pros and cons to moly and no one knows this better than Pennzoil. I am sure they are reformulating in preparation for GF-5. Results are what count and looking at yours, it would be extremely tough to make a case against using Pennzoil YB again.
And concerning the shear factor, the 5W-20 sheared from 8.4 (latest 04/08 specs) to 8.24 or a trivial 1.9% compared to an average shear for the last two runs of PP 5W-20 of 5.67% (8.46 VOA to 7.98UOA). And let's not even calculate the Pennzoil YB 5W-30 shear which starts out at 10.5VOA.
All your wear rates are considerable lower. I wouldn't change anything. And arguably, in most American/Japanese engines I think 5w-20 is superior to 5w-30 regardless of the oil or manufacturer's recommendations as long as the OCI is kept at a reasonable level.
As dnewton3 always says, synthetics have their place. Low temperature environments (turbocharged/high loads such as racing/towing) or engine shearing monsters like the audis. In a standard passenger engine usage pattern with sane driving unless OCI extension is the goal synthetics compared to SM/GF-4 dino oils make little sense today. And I predict that GF-5 oils will make this trend even more clear.
And if you want to extend your intervals to say 7500 miles, then realize that your oil selection and by necessity change (in most engines anyway) from dino to at least GroupIII oils such as PP may bring with it wear compromises.
Whether you select PP in 5w-20, Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP or move up to Amsoil most of the time you only gain interval life, not engine life or lowered wear rates.
I think glennc & Bill in Utah have it right in their estimations about the superiority of GroupII+ in most engines that fall into the standard engine/usage categories concerning wear rates. And I am not convinced that using Pennzoil YB, Mobil 5000 or MC will eventually lead to disposits that necessitate AutoRX in a well maintained engine as opposed to an engine maintained with synthetic oil like Mobil 1 which we all know will keep things "squeaky clean".
Just my .02 worth. YMMV
Your 2 cents are very well stated! (wish I could compose like you)
Been here for a while and only 17 posts? (must be someone who reads then thinks and THEN posts)
Wish you were posting more and others around here less.
Take care, bill
Originally Posted By: FZ1
That's right! Those GLX rods don't come cheap.
For those who don't know what he is talking about;
Very nice fishing rods...
Bill
That's right! Those GLX rods don't come cheap.
For those who don't know what he is talking about;
Very nice fishing rods...
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
I'd rather use DATA (Let me see your UOAs as I can not seem to find one that you have posted) and years of experience instead of "what the oil feels like" and such.
At least I spend the $$ PROVING what I'm saying in my app. I see that you don't get it. So just ignore me.
Also, I like being called Oil Myth buster than God of oil...
Others on this board have called me that.
To you, Mister Oil myth buster.
Bill
oh I get it , as for the 47 m.p.g. ( if I remember correctly ) in your '05 COROLLA loaded with 4 people and luggage sounds like a tall fish tale to me ;- ) . Oh , with the A.C. on as well , not very likely :- ) .
Originally Posted By: smokey1
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: smokey1
here in the N.E. you're lucky to get the regular PENNZOIL for less than $2 a quart , that's why I use the PLATINUM which can be had for less than $1.50 a quart more ( B.O.G.O.F. or other sales ) than the YELLOW BOTTLE . Like the idea for synthetic when our 2 YARIS remain in the garage longer during the winter as well and I swear the engines are quieter on interstate , etc. with the PLATINUM ;- ) . Makes more sense to get the conventional PENNZOIL in areas where you can get it for 99 cents or less , MUST BE NICE :- ( ! Otherwise I'd say the heck with it and go back to the regular oil , especially if oil ever hits $150 a barrel or > . Last , thanks to finding this website via PRIUSCHAT I've been bitten by the SYNBUG :- ) . Or should it be :- ( since the discovery .
I'd rather save the $250 that you'd spend over 200k. That is how much "only" $1.50 a quart more cost you.
$250 is 2,500 miles worth of gas @ $4 a gallon.
And in the end your engine will be the same whether you use Conventional or syn.
Again thanks to the original poster with his excellent UOAs.
It helps me make up my mind.
I'd love to see others do the walk instead of talk the talk.
Bill
you've probably spent more than the $250 on all the oils ( syn or conventional ) and U.O.A.s since the time I've been here . I stated $1.50 or less , if others and myself want to use a synthetic , so be it . Why people worship you like the GOD OF OIL is beyond me :- ) .
I'd rather use DATA (Let me see your UOAs as I can not seem to find one that you have posted) and years of experience instead of "what the oil feels like" and such.
At least I spend the $$ PROVING what I'm saying in my app. I see that you don't get it. So just ignore me.
Also, I like being called Oil Myth buster than God of oil...
Others on this board have called me that.
To you, Mister Oil myth buster.
Bill
oh I get it , as for the 47 m.p.g. ( if I remember correctly ) in your '05 COROLLA loaded with 4 people and luggage sounds like a tall fish tale to me ;- ) . Oh , with the A.C. on as well , not very likely :- ) .
Last edited:
The latest results show that TBN is marginal after 5k miles with the conventional PZL and the total solids level has increased. Since this engine was still breaking in over the past several OCI's, comparing the relative wear rates is essentially meaningless.
I'd recommend going back to the PP/5w-20 (or better yet an SAE 0w-20 in the interest of max. fuel efficiency), and lengthening the OCI to 7500 miles. This will save you the labor and clean up mess of 1 out of 3 oil/filter changes. Running extended OCI's under warranty is a non-issue provided your analysis results support it.
BTW, you're comparing a 5w-30 to a 5w-20 here, so the conventional oil did shear more in service....
I'd recommend going back to the PP/5w-20 (or better yet an SAE 0w-20 in the interest of max. fuel efficiency), and lengthening the OCI to 7500 miles. This will save you the labor and clean up mess of 1 out of 3 oil/filter changes. Running extended OCI's under warranty is a non-issue provided your analysis results support it.
BTW, you're comparing a 5w-30 to a 5w-20 here, so the conventional oil did shear more in service....
Quote:
oh I get it , as for the 47 m.p.g. ( if I remember correctly ) in your '05 COROLLA loaded with 4 people and luggage sounds like a tall fish tale to me ;- ) . Oh , with the A.C. on as well , not very likely :- ) .
If your going to quote me, get it right.
I'll let you figure out where you are wrong.
PS: I'll stand by ANY data I have posted for the last 5+ years.
oh I get it , as for the 47 m.p.g. ( if I remember correctly ) in your '05 COROLLA loaded with 4 people and luggage sounds like a tall fish tale to me ;- ) . Oh , with the A.C. on as well , not very likely :- ) .
If your going to quote me, get it right.
I'll let you figure out where you are wrong.
PS: I'll stand by ANY data I have posted for the last 5+ years.
- Status
