2007 Toyota Sienna, Toyota 5W30 oil - 4,750 miles

[Roger]

2007 Toyota Sienna van 3.5L
Lab: Blackstone
Oil: Toyota 5w-30
Oil Filter: Toyota
Oil Miles/Time: 4,750 miles/5 months ~80% highway miles
Total Miles: 14,750
No make up oil added.

Aluminum - 4
Chromium - 0
Iron - 13
Copper - 41
Lead - 1
Tin - 0
Molybdenum - 126
Nickel - 0
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Manganese - 0
Potassium - 4
Boron - 41
Silicon - 20
Sodium - 271
Calcium - 1708
Magnesium - 13
Phosphorus - 679
Zinc - 869
Barium - 0

cSt Visocity 100C - 8.87
SUS Viscocity 212F - 55.3
Flashpoint - 380
Antifreeze & Water - 0%
Fuel - < 0.5%
Insolubles - 0.4
TBN - 2.5

Blackstone: "Nothing too unusual was found in the first sample from your Sienna. With just 14,750 miles on the engine, it's still pretty new so the above average wear was expected. We see that you haven't changed this oil but we think now is a good time to do so. Excess wear metals in an oil will make it abrasive, which will cause more wear. It's a vicious cycle. Universal averages are based on an oil run of ~5,500 miles & after your engine has matured, going that long on the oil shouldn't be a problem. The TBN read 2.5 so you had some active additive left. 1.0 is low."

This is a 1 year old van. Dealer provides free oil changes every 5,000 miles. It is due for another at 15,000 so I decided to take a sample ahead of time to see how this conventional Toyota oil was doing on a 5K OCI. I'm not all that pleased. High iron, copper and silicon. Thinned out somewhat. Sure hope the sodium is an oil additive and high wear is due to breakin yet, but hoped a Toyota engine would show better results.

 

[FZ1]

It's a conventional oil so it's about done in the 4 or 5k range. I'd run the next free fill out to maybe 4k then dump it for a synthetic. .02.

 

[Bill in Utah]

It is still new.

TBN is very good for almost 5k run.

continue with the 5k and resample at 25k.

It will be better. (not that is that bad now)

They prob using Mobil oil or Castrol which does have Sodium.

Take care, bill

 

[JohnBrowning]

I think it looks fine that copper is from the cooler it is just because it is new. I would keep useing their free oil changes until they run out! Then I would get a bottle of Auto-Rx follow the directions and then switch over to Mobil-1 High Milage 10W30 or Mobil-1 0W40 and change the oil ever 6 months and do not worry about milage at all. That is just me though!

 

[Brett Miller]

Looks good, thanks for posting.

 

[Al]

Agree with Bill.

 

[Roger]

You guys are probably right. Took it in this morning for the oil change. Dealer said their Toyota branded oil is "specially blended" by Mobil for Toyota.

 

[FZ1]

Amending my previous post. If the free changes are for as long as you own the car, see if they will let you do the changes a little early at 4500 to 4750. If you want to try a better oil just bring it to the dealer every 5k and let them provide the filter and labor. .02.

 

[Roger]

Quote:
see if they will let you do the changes a little early at 4500 to 4750. If you want to try a better oil just bring it to the dealer every 5k and let them provide the filter and labor. .02.


Dang, FZ1! You are spot on.

It was a slow Saturday, so I got into a bit of a conversation with the service rep about it. I told him about this uoa, which he was genuinely interested in hearing about. He said they'd have to step up to Mobil 1 at the dealership if I wanted a better oil. He said some customers do bring in their own synthetic oil since it is cheaper for them to buy it. The dealer then installs it free with a new oil filter. The guy knew his oil, as he offered the opinion that a 5K OCI with synthetic was probably overkill. He added that they've seen plenty of 300 - 400K mileage cars run on conventional oil.

I'm mulling it over, but will probably follow Bill's suggestion 1st and try another uoa to see if engine breakin over time improves results.

The dealer freebe is for 100K miles.

 

[FZ1]

I'm sure the wear will improve and the uoa certainly was not bad. Good luck with it.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Roger if these oil changes are free for the as long as you own the vechile this is what I would do. I would call Synergen oil company and order a case of their oil additive. It is compatable with syntheitc or dino oil. It will greatly boost the additives and the ester content of your free oil! They make their own oil as well and this stuff is more then likely the additive package they use in their oil cut with esters to improve the perfromance of what ever oil you add it to! This way you get lower wear,lower deposits and you will still be paying way less then you ever would to buy synthetic for them to add of to change the oil yourself since you are getting an excellent filter and labor free of charge right now. The best part is that you could add this stuff after you left the lot so no one would ever know!

 

[JohnBrowning]

Hey Roger her is the link for Dyson Oil wich is synergenraceing.

http://www.synergynracing.com/

 

[stockrex]

I take a jug of m1 and have toyota do it. 14$ oil change

dino goes to sheets around 3-4 k on mine... I use my marine pump to take out a few qts and top it off again till the next visit to the dealer.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
I take a jug of m1 and have toyota do it. 14$ oil change

dino goes to sheets around 3-4 k on mine... I use my marine pump to take out a few qts and top it off again till the next visit to the dealer.


Please post your UOA on the 3-4k oil.

bill

 

[Steve S]

Do what Bill Says. Going to M1 and doing 5,000 mile oil changes is wasting $$$ . The free oil changes will save you more $$$ than any syn oil will return . Todays oils are not the 1960s oils that the syn companys literature describes them as.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Do what Bill Says. Going to M1 and doing 5,000 mile oil changes is wasting $$$ . The free oil changes will save you more $$$ than any syn oil will return . Todays oils are not the 1960s oils that the syn companys literature describes them as.


I agree.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Seriesly at least order a single bottle of Synergens oil additivive and see what you think after 5000 miles and another UOA!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Seriesly at least order a single bottle of Synergens oil additivive and see what you think after 5000 miles and another UOA!

Why would he need to add more additives to his oil? How are you certain that the additive will not upset the balance of additives that are already present in the oil? How are you certain that the extra additives will not negatively affect the life of the expensive emission control devices?

 

[JohnBrowning]

First when have seen a well made additive upset any so called ballance???? Terry Dyson used to work with these guys from what I recall and he spoke very highly of them and their products! Third he is getting his oil changed for free but the oil is a bit weak in the knee's! He does not need that much help to get over the hump. I have used additives forever and show me where I have a negative UOA because of it! In fact a lot of people use additives on this site and few have ever had a problem especialy when they are useing a single additive that was designed for a specific purpose or those that use the same additives that are used in comercialy frmulated oil as in only available through a blender! You have to go way out into left field to get into trouble. Few additives will take your oil any higher then Redline's level of additives and few will even go that extreme if used properly!

I am preety sure a bottle of synergens additive + free dealership oil change = less money then buying a 5 quart jug of M1 if that is even enough oil and allowing the dealership to change the oil. I am also very sure that synergens additive will do no harm they are not snake oils salesmen!

Third is utter non-sense of the order that I would expect to come from a Green Peacer,Peta or Siera Club member to think that it is going to somehow kill his catalytic converter! Seems like if oil was such a killer of catalytic converters their would be alot more dead ones then their are and it would be significantly higher in the south???Why the south John???? Becuase inthe south more people run 20W50,15W40 and 10W40 then probably any place else inthe USA and since those grades do not have sub-standard ZDDP levels a lot of have not reduced their levels at until recently and then just a few! Yet we do not see massive accumlation of plugged up or dead catalytic converters clustering in places that use the thickest oil! I wounder why that is... I mean lets not lets facts get in the way of a scientificly supported and manipultated lie! In fact we do not see European car companies complaining about this or Korean car companies since they still let people use evil weights of oil with lots of Zink and Phosphurious in them!GM,Chrysler, and Ford where haveing huge issues with warranty replacement of catalytic converters with GM haveing the highest rate of failure. Go figure the manufacture with the most vechiles with oil consumption problems haveing an issue with emmissions controls. Never mind their cheap design and spec's for their cat's. So lets not point a finger our own direction we already have enough money flying out the door lets look for something to blame! I know ZDDP and Phosphorus and sulfar those are to blame. At first it was just ZDDP and Chrysler and Ford and latter Toyota jumped ont he band wagon then they started to take phosphurious out and I think Toyota got a bit worried as did other Asian automotive companies. Chryslers problem was never with poisioning of their cat's it was the ceramic media cracking and crumbleing the same thing turned out to be true of Toyota. The ceramic media that the rare earth metals are bonded to is not affected by AW additives that is structural. So it turned out to be just a problem for GM and FOrd but the Genie was all ready out of the bottle so now they had to move fast.... So Lubrizol came to the rescue at the request of GM of course and co authored a paper on the subject! That study reads like some of the worst graduate student work I have ever seen it is ripe with blatant bias. You barley have to read it to know how the story is going to end up. In fact when car and driver used to do those Corvette Tunner challenges every couple of years a few Corvettes would always be elimanated because they could not pass emissions after a few hard runs. Once you got them hot the GM cat's really hot that was it. Guess how Leinginfelter(sp) solved the problem???? They took Cat's of a Didge Viper and installed as part of their exhaust mod. low and behold same modification other ten differnt cats and the Corvettes had no problem turning in great times and good smog test results! The problem Toyota had with their High output 1.8L built by Yamaha self destructing it's bores was latter found to be causeed by the ceramic media that the cat.'s are made out of breaking up and the natural EGR function of the cam phaseing was sucking that cermic media back into the cylinders wich are a composit ematerial and it would literal eat them up from abrasion. Then oil consumption would drastily rise which was the main sing that you needed a new block with those engines.

So tell a lie big enough often enough and sooner or latter you can just sit back and the lie will self perpuate itself. How come no one in my family and no one I know has ever had a cat failure ever? It is always the oil burners that need new cat.'s! We do not see exotic cars like the AMG's needing new cat.'s and last I checked BMW's 10W60 still had decent amounts of ZDDP. All these guys running RLI-BioSyn,Redline,Motul 300V,M1 15W50,Amsoil,5W40's,15W40 and 20W50 all seem to be ok. It the all the guys with their GM oil burners running cheap 5W30 that are haveing the problems! SO lets call a duck a duck and point the blame where it really belongs! I am so tired of spin and smoke and mirrors it just never ends! I know you can not show me a vechile that had to have it cataltic converter replaced because of Redline or Motul 300V or Castrol 10W60 etc.......

Unless you have a membership or choose to buy the paper you probably can not produce the Lubrizol Paper on ZDDP poisining cat's either. I read it when I worked and GM and laughed! It was not that convinceing of a paper in spite of the number's and graph's and it simply does not pan out with real world experince! If did all the car's that have ran Amsoil the last 10-20 years would be dead and have opstructed cat's every 100,000 miles!

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Seriesly at least order a single bottle of Synergens oil additivive and see what you think after 5000 miles and another UOA!

Why would he need to add more additives to his oil? How are you certain that the additive will not upset the balance of additives that are already present in the oil? How are you certain that the extra additives will not negatively affect the life of the expensive emission control devices?


I agree with you. Does not need anything more in the oil.

I don't know of anyone taking a 2007 ULEV engine to 300,000 miles on 15-50wt or 20-50wt.

Anyone who runs that heavy of a oil in todays engines is wasting $$.

Bill