HARLEY DAVIDSON ENGINE OIL QUESTION

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Yes - and how much foam are we talking about? Take a look in the oil tank on a Harley after it's been running any length of time and you will always see some amount of bubbles. These are dry sump engines - an oil (pressure) and a scavenge pump.

Interesting that the MoCo would replace three engines without screaming foul - e.g. trying to void your warranty because you didn't use the recommended Harley oil. If they could prove that it was oil-related then I'm sure that they would........

There's more here than meets the eye.
 
First of all let me say "Thanks a bunch!" for all of the replies.

To answer some of your questions, I change my oil and filter, using a HD filter, at 5000 mile intervals. I run a HD premium oil cooler with the thermostat removed. The engine is at Stage one level, using a Cobra FI2000 fueling device that uses the O2 sensors.

I also change my primary and trans at 5000 mile intervals for simplicity. I use automotive type IV automatic trans fluid in the primary, as it makes my clutch work sooo much better. I use M1 synthetic 75W90 in the trans.

I am not hard on my bike, but I will admit I will "Go through the gears" once in a while. But most of the time, like 99.9%, I am just crusin.

And for the guy who's wife has a horse, I ride Mules. (The four legged kind. Not the Kawasaki type)

Also for the guy with the metric bike, I would not use M1 20W/50 V-Twin oil in your bike, as it is supposed to have a lot of Moly in it and it might make your clutch slip. M1 makes a 15W/40 oil, M4 I believe it's called, for your bike. It is good stuff, as I ran it in my 2005 Honda ST 1300 with no problems.

I realize the HD V-Twin engine is an old engine design. But as it is air cooled and runs a lot hotter than a water cooled modern metric bike engine, I want to make sure that I use a very good oil in it, as I will be keeping this bike for a long time.

My main concern is will the 15W-40 be too light of a viscocity for an air cooled engine that runs on the hot side? I know a water cooled motorcycle engine will run the lighter grade oils with no problem, as they run a lot cooler. But what about the air cooled hot running engines.
 
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Going back to the original post, short answer is I wouldn't do that unless I lived in the great white north. I've lived in the Mohave and it gets a bit warm there. I might even consider Red Line 20W60 for summer. My opinion is that you are using one of the top three, Redline, M1 Vtwin, and Amsoil. I've run dino a lot in my 94 long ago but only to 2500 miles. You can extend that to about double with M1 so there is some pay back there. Say you ride 5K in 5 months. What is the per month cost delta? 15W40 is a get me home oil in that engine not a regular fill. I use M1 15W50 auto in my 94 Evo and Redline 20W50 in my 05 TC for what it's worth. Just a few less beers will cover the oil cost over the months.

20+ years as an Aerospace Engineer
30+ years as an air cooled bike rider (including all four [censored] makes and three HDs)
 
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I might even consider Red Line 20W60 for summer.

They make a 20W-60? I didn't realize anyone made that ... I thought the next step up was the 80W-90 gear oils. Hmmm ... earn something new every day.

I'm going to agree with the general assessment that for an air cooled bike, a 15W-40 *might* be a bit think for summer, particularly for a bike that specs a 20W-50. You might be better served going with a 20W-50.

Water cooled -- then definitely a 15W-40. Would work fine.

BTW, my local Honda dealer here in Tucson dumps 20W-50 Honda GN-4 in Goldwings in the summer, and the Goldwing now specs a 10W-30. That's how much they want to shade on the side of cautious when it comes to the summer oil weight.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon

They make a 20W-60? I didn't realize anyone made that ... I thought the next step up was the 80W-90 gear oils.


Ummmm - you do know that 90 weight gear oil is approx the same viscosity as 50 weight motor oil, right? Just thinking out loud, eh?

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
BTW, my local Honda dealer here in Tucson dumps 20W-50 Honda GN-4 in Goldwings in the summer, and the Goldwing now specs a 10W-30. That's how much they want to shade on the side of cautious when it comes to the summer oil weight.


Yep there are more than a few Wing riders using 20w-50 in the hot climates and it appears to work just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

And for the guy who's wife has a horse, I ride Mules. (The four legged kind. Not the Kawasaki type).

You know that the Kawasaki type doesn't bite, and won't kick the stalls.
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Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

I would not use M1 20W/50 V-Twin oil in your bike, as it is supposed to have a lot of Moly in it......


Maybe you're thinking of another oil because Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 has only about 90 ppm moly as does their MX4T (now called Racing 4T"). As does their 15w-50....

At any rate, they both meet the JASO MA spec for wet clutch friction.

Here are the VOAs
VOAs_for_Mobil_Motorcycle_Oils-and-more
 
Red Line has a 20W60 HD specifically for HD Vtwins. They used to carry it in the white bottle (auto oil) but now they only carry it in the black bottle (MC oil) for about $2.50 more per Qt. Their motorcycle oil is fairly new so they have realigned their product line a bit it seems. I have used the white bottle 20W60 HD for summer operation along with the 20W50. I have never used their new MC oil. The stuff in the white bottle is pretty darn good on paper but high in MolyB so maybe not a good clutch oil. I'd hope the black bottle has something cosmic in it to charge $2.50 more but probably just has less Moly and a bit more ZDDP.
 
Okay. I have decided to try Delo 15/40. I found it today at Wall Mart for $9.49 per gallon. Compared to $9.97 a quart for M1 V-Twin that's cheap! I have used Delo 15/40 in my 2001 Dodge Cummins and I have over 200,000 miles on it. I bought it in 2001 and at 140,000 miles I pulled the valve cover to adjust the valves. I found no sludge in the engine and the valves were spot on. So, if Delo is good enough and certified for Cat, Cummins, etc, etc, it should be okay in my Harley.

If I rode my bagger like the guy with the Sportster I would continue with M1 V-Twin 20/50. Also, if I rode like the guy with the Sportster, I would get a metric sport bike, not a Sportster. The Sportster is old technoligy and not up to that kind of riding. I would really be interested in knowing what really caused the engines to blow. I would bet money it was not the oil used.
 
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER
Okay. I have decided to try Delo 15/40.

Cool. You've settled on an HDEO.

Now we can debate which one!
banana2.gif


I'll start: "Delo?!! Are you kidding? That's got the consistency of Coors Light!"

Nah ... just kidding. It's cool.
wink.gif
 
Good! Are you gonna do a UOA & about how many miles will ya go on it...?

I'll go about 4,000-5,000 & do a UOA for sure on the Amsoil 20w-50 MCV.

It'll be intertesting to review the differences....
 
I'm going to change out the M1 V-Twin 20/50 that's in the bike now at 5000 miles and send in a sample of that oil to Blackstone. I should be at 5000 miles in about two weeks.

Then I will run the Delo 15/40 for 5000 miles and send a sample of that oil in and compare the results. Should be an interesting comparison. I will post the results. I ordered a kit from Blackstone yesterday.
 
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

If I rode my bagger like the guy with the Sportster I would continue with M1 V-Twin 20/50. Also, if I rode like the guy with the Sportster, I would get a metric sport bike, not a Sportster. The Sportster is old technoligy and not up to that kind of riding. I would really be interested in knowing what really caused the engines to blow. I would bet money it was not the oil used.


My friend owns two Ducatis along with his Sportster. He rides all three flat out. HD replaced the engines because the company doesn't want to admit that their old technology is [censored]. More importantly, HD doesn't want to admit that their customers are primarily biker wanna bees who would never even dream of riding their bikes anywhere near the speed limit.

In an amusing side note, I drove the length of the Chief Joseph Scenic Highway in Park County, Wyoming yesterday. I passed a dozen Harley riders in my F250 Powerstroke. The wusses were too scared to ride faster than 35 MPH. What scared them more was a diesel pickup on their back wheels flashing high beams. Pathetic.

Hey, here's Redline's new slogan: Use Redline in your Harley and just maybe, if your lucky, you won't blow your engine!
 
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Originally Posted By: STG
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

If I rode my bagger like the guy with the Sportster I would continue with M1 V-Twin 20/50. Also, if I rode like the guy with the Sportster, I would get a metric sport bike, not a Sportster. The Sportster is old technoligy and not up to that kind of riding. I would really be interested in knowing what really caused the engines to blow. I would bet money it was not the oil used.


My friend owns two Ducatis along with his Sportster. He rides all three flat out. HD replaced the engines because the company doesn't want to admit that their old technology is [censored]. More importantly, HD doesn't want to admit that their customers are primarily biker wanna bees who would never even dream of riding their bikes anywhere near the speed limit.

In an amusing side note, I drove the length of the Chief Joseph Scenic Highway in Park County, Wyoming yesterday. I passed a dozen Harley riders in my F250 Powerstroke. The wusses were too scared to ride faster than 35 MPH. What scared them more was a diesel pickup on their back wheels flashing high beams. Pathetic.

Hey, here's Redline's new slogan: Use Redline in your Harley and just maybe, if your lucky, you won't blow your engine!


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at STG
 
Originally Posted By: STG

In an amusing side note, I drove the length of the Chief Joseph Scenic Highway in Park County, Wyoming yesterday.


Hey STG...you're the first person I've heard of that's actually FROM Cody. I thought everyone just visited Cody. :) I'm from Gillette. Greetings fellow Cowboy Stater!
 
Originally Posted By: STG
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

If I rode my bagger like the guy with the Sportster I would continue with M1 V-Twin 20/50. Also, if I rode like the guy with the Sportster, I would get a metric sport bike, not a Sportster. The Sportster is old technoligy and not up to that kind of riding. I would really be interested in knowing what really caused the engines to blow. I would bet money it was not the oil used.


My friend owns two Ducatis along with his Sportster. He rides all three flat out. HD replaced the engines because the company doesn't want to admit that their old technology is [censored]. More importantly, HD doesn't want to admit that their customers are primarily biker wanna bees who would never even dream of riding their bikes anywhere near the speed limit.


smirk2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: STG
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER

If I rode my bagger like the guy with the Sportster I would continue with M1 V-Twin 20/50. Also, if I rode like the guy with the Sportster, I would get a metric sport bike, not a Sportster. The Sportster is old technoligy and not up to that kind of riding. I would really be interested in knowing what really caused the engines to blow. I would bet money it was not the oil used.


My friend owns two Ducatis along with his Sportster. He rides all three flat out. HD replaced the engines because the company doesn't want to admit that their old technology is [censored]. More importantly, HD doesn't want to admit that their customers are primarily biker wanna bees who would never even dream of riding their bikes anywhere near the speed limit.


smirk2.gif



No kidding -
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I'm not a biker wanna be. I own a Harley bagger because I want to cruise. I sold my 05 Honda ST 1300 because it was too perfect and I could not keep it under 100 MPH. Also I like to modify my bike and make it mine. The ST was perfect with nothing to be done to it. Also, the riding position was uncomfortable for me. I can ride all day on my bagger with no back or leg problems.

Now when I really want to go fast, I ride my 2005 Kawasaki ZX12R. I've had it to 175 MPH before my balls began to shrink. I went through the factory rear tire in 2000 miles. And no that was not because of burn outs. It was because of hard roll ons from 70 MPH.

So no, just because some of us ride Harleys does not mean we are wanna be bikers or posers. It just means we have a choice of what we want to ride. That's the good old American way.
 
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER
I'm not a biker wanna be. I own a Harley bagger because I want to cruise. I sold my 05 Honda ST 1300 because it was too perfect and I could not keep it under 100 MPH. Also I like to modify my bike and make it mine. The ST was perfect with nothing to be done to it. Also, the riding position was uncomfortable for me. I can ride all day on my bagger with no back or leg problems.

Now when I really want to go fast, I ride my 2005 Kawasaki ZX12R. I've had it to 175 MPH before my balls began to shrink. I went through the factory rear tire in 2000 miles. And no that was not because of burn outs. It was because of hard roll ons from 70 MPH.

So no, just because some of us ride Harleys does not mean we are wanna be bikers or posers. It just means we have a choice of what we want to ride. That's the good old American way.


I'm cool with that. I only have two rules when it comes to Harleys:

1. Any Harley Davidson motorcycle that produces more db than horsepower must be removed from the road and crushed.

2. Harley Davidson riders need to use the right lane at all times.

By the way, most HD riders I've spoken with say that the lure of the open road, the feeling of being the modern lone cowboy is the attraction to motorcycling on a Hog. I guess that's why you never see a lone HD rider, only massive clubs on the road.
 
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Originally Posted By: blackcherry06
STG said:
Hey STG...you're the first person I've heard of that's actually FROM Cody. I thought everyone just visited Cody. :) I'm from Gillette. Greetings fellow Cowboy Stater!


I thought everybody drove through Gillette on their way to visit Cody!
 
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