For those of you dead set on using a shotgun as your primary home defense weapon then maybe this is for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKIZauSf5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKIZauSf5s
Good shotgun for home defense?
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Too bulky and unlicensable in many areas.
Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv5duTVY8Ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUf6iTv_aQ
Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv5duTVY8Ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUf6iTv_aQ
I just have a 1500sqft one floor home so the intruder would likely not be more than 50ft away. No kids and toys everywhere so all rooms are well kept so tripping over stairs and toys ect would not be an issue. I do keep it well lit outside btw so its not completely dark and hard to see inside at night but I guess a flashlight would still come in handy if they happened to cut the power before entering.
So far as those who prefer handguns for home defense are buckshot rounds worth considering or will they not do much damage?
So far as those who prefer handguns for home defense are buckshot rounds worth considering or will they not do much damage?
I don't want to spend much time reading all the comments but I've read some and I can't resist.
First is the 21 foot rule. From 21 feet it takes a bad guy an average of 1.5 seconds running full speed to get you.
Second: Grave threat? (going to kill you?) You "stop" the threat and don't worry about trap loads. Save it for Sunday at the range. Buck and Slugs. You should know what is behind him such as house, kids in street, neighbor, your car, case of your favorite oil.....it's your decision what load to use...I am not telling you to use Buck and Slugs, I use that load.
Third: No brainer. You will know where your family is and you will index. Beep the light while slicing the pie. You can light up a room with a mounted light using short beeps. A 6v hand held Surefire pointed for example at the ceiling will light the same as a 12 watt light bulb. Don't point your light mounted loaded shotgun up at the ceiling. Hand held light like I said.
Fourth: Bad guy breaks door, enters, you confront him, he raises his arms up hands empty, can you shoot? No, right there it's criminal trespassing...maybe B and E. (Bark him instructions) If he charges you? I know what to do but for you it's decision time.
(Never say "freeze". You'll get a better reaction with a loud "Don't Move"!)
There is a lot more to it. The shotgun I have handles nice in training. Practice, practice, practice. Know the laws in your area.
First is the 21 foot rule. From 21 feet it takes a bad guy an average of 1.5 seconds running full speed to get you.
Second: Grave threat? (going to kill you?) You "stop" the threat and don't worry about trap loads. Save it for Sunday at the range. Buck and Slugs. You should know what is behind him such as house, kids in street, neighbor, your car, case of your favorite oil.....it's your decision what load to use...I am not telling you to use Buck and Slugs, I use that load.
Third: No brainer. You will know where your family is and you will index. Beep the light while slicing the pie. You can light up a room with a mounted light using short beeps. A 6v hand held Surefire pointed for example at the ceiling will light the same as a 12 watt light bulb. Don't point your light mounted loaded shotgun up at the ceiling. Hand held light like I said.
Fourth: Bad guy breaks door, enters, you confront him, he raises his arms up hands empty, can you shoot? No, right there it's criminal trespassing...maybe B and E. (Bark him instructions) If he charges you? I know what to do but for you it's decision time.
(Never say "freeze". You'll get a better reaction with a loud "Don't Move"!)
There is a lot more to it. The shotgun I have handles nice in training. Practice, practice, practice. Know the laws in your area.
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
You better be prepared to shoot with one hand. I guarantee you I am, especially in a low light situation.I'm going to have a flashlight if at all possible. If one of your arms is injured what do you plan on doing, giving up? Practise shooting and reloading one hand strong side and one hand weak side. Practise shooting with a flashlight. If you can see in the dark then you don't need a flashlight, but most humans don't have night vision and have to rely on a flashlight or room lights to see and identify the target. It may not be as simple as just picking up a weapon and shooting a bad guy standing still in a well lit room. It might involve moving from room to room, going up or down stairs, opening/closing doors, trying not to trip over objects on the floor,ducking behind a sofa for cover. There's hundreds of possibilities that might have to be dealt with.
There is a lot of thinking and planning that should go into it.
The only problem I have with your above scenario is that I won't be the one "clearing" a dwelling room by room. My motto is "retreat to fight another day". I have no intention, no matter how well armed I am, and I am well armed, of hunting through my house for a dangerous, possibly armed intruder. That is not my job.
My job is to get my family together, barricade my family in a designated safe room, call the cops, lock and load and wait for help. I can't imagine myself going through a dark house, with a flashlight and gun, hunting down an armed and dangerous perp. Like I said it isn't my job.
For real life scenarios, for the majority of people who don't get a lot of range time, a shotgun is about as good as it gets for a purely defensive weapon.
If your job is hunting someone down, then I tend to agree with your weapon/flashlight choices.
You better be prepared to shoot with one hand. I guarantee you I am, especially in a low light situation.I'm going to have a flashlight if at all possible. If one of your arms is injured what do you plan on doing, giving up? Practise shooting and reloading one hand strong side and one hand weak side. Practise shooting with a flashlight. If you can see in the dark then you don't need a flashlight, but most humans don't have night vision and have to rely on a flashlight or room lights to see and identify the target. It may not be as simple as just picking up a weapon and shooting a bad guy standing still in a well lit room. It might involve moving from room to room, going up or down stairs, opening/closing doors, trying not to trip over objects on the floor,ducking behind a sofa for cover. There's hundreds of possibilities that might have to be dealt with.
There is a lot of thinking and planning that should go into it.
The only problem I have with your above scenario is that I won't be the one "clearing" a dwelling room by room. My motto is "retreat to fight another day". I have no intention, no matter how well armed I am, and I am well armed, of hunting through my house for a dangerous, possibly armed intruder. That is not my job.
My job is to get my family together, barricade my family in a designated safe room, call the cops, lock and load and wait for help. I can't imagine myself going through a dark house, with a flashlight and gun, hunting down an armed and dangerous perp. Like I said it isn't my job.
For real life scenarios, for the majority of people who don't get a lot of range time, a shotgun is about as good as it gets for a purely defensive weapon.
If your job is hunting someone down, then I tend to agree with your weapon/flashlight choices.
Originally Posted By: Forest
You should know what is behind him such as house, kids in street, neighbor, your car, case of your favorite oil.....it's your decision what load to use...
Note to self: Let the intruder get away if you have to but whatever you do DONT hit the oil! Especially if you never got your rebate for it!
In my case I dont have family to gather and since I wouldnt want someone taking all my things and leaving while I stay in my room I'd rather rack a shell for him to hear along with me yelling for him to get on the floor or I'll shoot, then let the cops take him away instead of him taking my things away.
You should know what is behind him such as house, kids in street, neighbor, your car, case of your favorite oil.....it's your decision what load to use...
Note to self: Let the intruder get away if you have to but whatever you do DONT hit the oil! Especially if you never got your rebate for it!
In my case I dont have family to gather and since I wouldnt want someone taking all my things and leaving while I stay in my room I'd rather rack a shell for him to hear along with me yelling for him to get on the floor or I'll shoot, then let the cops take him away instead of him taking my things away.
Originally Posted By: punisher
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
You better be prepared to shoot with one hand. I guarantee you I am, especially in a low light situation.I'm going to have a flashlight if at all possible. If one of your arms is injured what do you plan on doing, giving up? Practise shooting and reloading one hand strong side and one hand weak side. Practise shooting with a flashlight. If you can see in the dark then you don't need a flashlight, but most humans don't have night vision and have to rely on a flashlight or room lights to see and identify the target. It may not be as simple as just picking up a weapon and shooting a bad guy standing still in a well lit room. It might involve moving from room to room, going up or down stairs, opening/closing doors, trying not to trip over objects on the floor,ducking behind a sofa for cover. There's hundreds of possibilities that might have to be dealt with.
There is a lot of thinking and planning that should go into it.
The only problem I have with your above scenario is that I won't be the one "clearing" a dwelling room by room. My motto is "retreat to fight another day". I have no intention, no matter how well armed I am, and I am well armed, of hunting through my house for a dangerous, possibly armed intruder. That is not my job.
My job is to get my family together, barricade my family in a designated safe room, call the cops, lock and load and wait for help. I can't imagine myself going through a dark house, with a flashlight and gun, hunting down an armed and dangerous perp. Like I said it isn't my job.
For real life scenarios, for the majority of people who don't get a lot of range time, a shotgun is about as good as it gets for a purely defensive weapon.
If your job is hunting someone down, then I tend to agree with your weapon/flashlight choices.
Like I said earlier a safe room is the best option but, depending on the size and layout of your house, and the location of your family members in different rooms on different floors, moving through the house may be necessary just to assemble everyone or get to a different level of the home where a family member is.It may not be your "job" but it is your duty to assemble them safely and this might mean going from room to room on different floors to assemble them so all I'm suggesting is some planning and forethought on this process is a good thing. In my case, as I'm sure it is with others, I have kids and their friends on two different floors almost all of the time. My wife spends a lot of time downstairs as well.Yes, I'm a police officer and I'm trained and paid to respond to these things but if someone tries to force their way into my house through the downstairs entrance and I'm upstairs then I'm dad/husband/homeowner and I'm going to the threat. With a Glock 9 MM by the way.
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
You better be prepared to shoot with one hand. I guarantee you I am, especially in a low light situation.I'm going to have a flashlight if at all possible. If one of your arms is injured what do you plan on doing, giving up? Practise shooting and reloading one hand strong side and one hand weak side. Practise shooting with a flashlight. If you can see in the dark then you don't need a flashlight, but most humans don't have night vision and have to rely on a flashlight or room lights to see and identify the target. It may not be as simple as just picking up a weapon and shooting a bad guy standing still in a well lit room. It might involve moving from room to room, going up or down stairs, opening/closing doors, trying not to trip over objects on the floor,ducking behind a sofa for cover. There's hundreds of possibilities that might have to be dealt with.
There is a lot of thinking and planning that should go into it.
The only problem I have with your above scenario is that I won't be the one "clearing" a dwelling room by room. My motto is "retreat to fight another day". I have no intention, no matter how well armed I am, and I am well armed, of hunting through my house for a dangerous, possibly armed intruder. That is not my job.
My job is to get my family together, barricade my family in a designated safe room, call the cops, lock and load and wait for help. I can't imagine myself going through a dark house, with a flashlight and gun, hunting down an armed and dangerous perp. Like I said it isn't my job.
For real life scenarios, for the majority of people who don't get a lot of range time, a shotgun is about as good as it gets for a purely defensive weapon.
If your job is hunting someone down, then I tend to agree with your weapon/flashlight choices.
Like I said earlier a safe room is the best option but, depending on the size and layout of your house, and the location of your family members in different rooms on different floors, moving through the house may be necessary just to assemble everyone or get to a different level of the home where a family member is.It may not be your "job" but it is your duty to assemble them safely and this might mean going from room to room on different floors to assemble them so all I'm suggesting is some planning and forethought on this process is a good thing. In my case, as I'm sure it is with others, I have kids and their friends on two different floors almost all of the time. My wife spends a lot of time downstairs as well.Yes, I'm a police officer and I'm trained and paid to respond to these things but if someone tries to force their way into my house through the downstairs entrance and I'm upstairs then I'm dad/husband/homeowner and I'm going to the threat. With a Glock 9 MM by the way.
Living alone in the country, the 3" 000 buck loaded in my pump Mossberg is quite handy, and TX now has the Castle Law giving the homeowner more rights than ever before. My Surefire very bright flashlight is right by the bed too.
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The only problem I have with your above scenario is that I won't be the one "clearing" a dwelling room by room. My motto is "retreat to fight another day". I have no intention, no matter how well armed I am, and I am well armed, of hunting through my house for a dangerous, possibly armed intruder. That is not my job.
Understood. But as a homeowner that is my job. You can't hide behind a sofa, wall, or door because if the bad guy is armed his shots will go through most home material including the cealing.
(You have to keep moving and not like hollywood)
Everything happens in nano seconds from my experience. Is it hunting? I thought somebody wrote that...no it's call self-defense.
Police are not obligated to protect you only to investigate after the fact. All of us seen police hang outside while people are getting shot on the nightly news. I don't agree with their tactics. It gets people killed.
They can run the tape well. But it is your responsibility to protect your family not the police. The consequences are for life or forever. Ammo's cheap, life is expensive.
It's your family not mine. You will do what you think is right for you.
Understood. But as a homeowner that is my job. You can't hide behind a sofa, wall, or door because if the bad guy is armed his shots will go through most home material including the cealing.
(You have to keep moving and not like hollywood)
Everything happens in nano seconds from my experience. Is it hunting? I thought somebody wrote that...no it's call self-defense.
Police are not obligated to protect you only to investigate after the fact. All of us seen police hang outside while people are getting shot on the nightly news. I don't agree with their tactics. It gets people killed.
They can run the tape well. But it is your responsibility to protect your family not the police. The consequences are for life or forever. Ammo's cheap, life is expensive.
It's your family not mine. You will do what you think is right for you.
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
My .44 and .45 revolvers make SO much more sense in a home defense situation. Easier to carry. Easier to manuever. Easier to stop someone with one shot.
Say what?
Do you know of anyone who has been hit with a 300 grain hollow point in any vital area that kept on fighting? Sure, a shotgun full of buckshot has more "killing power", I'll give you that, but dead is dead. A .38 special should be plenty in your house.
Furthermore, I can launch all six shots from a single action .44 Mag one handed in about 6 seconds, and have them land in the same chest cavity. Can't do that with a shotgun. The clunk of a revolver being cocked in the dark is just as threatening as racking up a shotgun.
Actually, I know of one such situation where 6 rounds (.38) in vital areas were not enough to stop someone on PCP. This included a direct, downward angled, headshot. The only round placement which stopped the guy was a shot to the hip which defeated his mobility and he bled out.
Can you empty that same weapon under stress and still put all the rounds where you say you can? Fear does a lot to a sight picture. Look at all the law enforcement studies on officer involved shootings and look at the average number of rounds expended in a gun fight vs the number of hits. Find a FATs trainer and test yourself. Qualifications are one thing. Firing under stress is completely different.
Not jumping on you, just adding my .02.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
My .44 and .45 revolvers make SO much more sense in a home defense situation. Easier to carry. Easier to manuever. Easier to stop someone with one shot.
Say what?
Do you know of anyone who has been hit with a 300 grain hollow point in any vital area that kept on fighting? Sure, a shotgun full of buckshot has more "killing power", I'll give you that, but dead is dead. A .38 special should be plenty in your house.
Furthermore, I can launch all six shots from a single action .44 Mag one handed in about 6 seconds, and have them land in the same chest cavity. Can't do that with a shotgun. The clunk of a revolver being cocked in the dark is just as threatening as racking up a shotgun.
Actually, I know of one such situation where 6 rounds (.38) in vital areas were not enough to stop someone on PCP. This included a direct, downward angled, headshot. The only round placement which stopped the guy was a shot to the hip which defeated his mobility and he bled out.
Can you empty that same weapon under stress and still put all the rounds where you say you can? Fear does a lot to a sight picture. Look at all the law enforcement studies on officer involved shootings and look at the average number of rounds expended in a gun fight vs the number of hits. Find a FATs trainer and test yourself. Qualifications are one thing. Firing under stress is completely different.
Not jumping on you, just adding my .02.
wantin150 is correct. I usually shoot near a perfect qual. In fats, my hit ratio dropped to between 70 or 80 percent, and those hits weren't necessarily in effective target zones. My understanding is your average shooter under the same stresses hits about 20 percent, assuming a 100 percent qualification score.
For me the butt stroke and butt smash are instinctive options with a shoulder fired weapon, but so is using a bayonet if it's installed :^)
Watching people run practical courses with pistols vs shoulder fired weapons there is a big difference in effectiveness. With lots of range time one can do MUCH better, but let's accept the fact that few people are going to spend the time on range going thru such practice; strong hand, weak hand, two hand, over / side/ under obtacles, light and dark, etc., so instead one can shorten the requirements by using a weapon like a shoulder fired weapon as it's inherently more accurate.
I've seen newbies go thru three magazines with large capacity semi-auto pistols with no hits and just give up and move to the next station; this is just on the range, which is nothing compared to a fight or flight siuation. I recall a SWAT situation in San Diego where a perp ran out of a building with an AK clone, with local PD, sherriffs, etc., blasting away, and the guy didn't receive one hit. They only got him after a dog grabbed the barrel of his rifle. This is fairly common.
Next best thing would be a laser sight with a pistol, even if it makes one a better target, as it too makes a large difference.
Watching people run practical courses with pistols vs shoulder fired weapons there is a big difference in effectiveness. With lots of range time one can do MUCH better, but let's accept the fact that few people are going to spend the time on range going thru such practice; strong hand, weak hand, two hand, over / side/ under obtacles, light and dark, etc., so instead one can shorten the requirements by using a weapon like a shoulder fired weapon as it's inherently more accurate.
I've seen newbies go thru three magazines with large capacity semi-auto pistols with no hits and just give up and move to the next station; this is just on the range, which is nothing compared to a fight or flight siuation. I recall a SWAT situation in San Diego where a perp ran out of a building with an AK clone, with local PD, sherriffs, etc., blasting away, and the guy didn't receive one hit. They only got him after a dog grabbed the barrel of his rifle. This is fairly common.
Next best thing would be a laser sight with a pistol, even if it makes one a better target, as it too makes a large difference.
Try some of these for HD ammo.
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Aguila Shotgun Ammo
Buckshot out of a handgun? Well I shot 2 birds, that kept trying to set up house in my table saw, out in the garage with some .38s. Got the birds at about 15 feet and nothing went through the sheetrock, made some holes but no penetration at about 25 feet. So I don't think pistol buckshot would be a good choice.
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I have set rules for me but the bottom line is to stop the threat and call police. Things happen quickly like a home invasion which is becoming more common in WA. Drugs has a lot to do with this crime. With the forests in this part it's perfect for Meth dealers.
I'm not a rambo I've taken training and know the consequences if I had to defend myself or my family from a grave threat. Your behavior can sometimes get you jail time even if your right.
As for home defense no AK's like Tempest said. A shotgun is your best bet.
How many of you have seen victims on T.V. news so scared or dead and you think "just a firearm with some training he or she could still be alive and now the bad guy is at large". People make choices and some are scared to walk the streets. A peaceful citizen has a right to walk down a street without fear of being gravely harmed. The police will not be there to protect you. You are accountable for your own safety.
The bad guys will always have guns and/or other weapons. A sad but true fact.
I'm not a rambo I've taken training and know the consequences if I had to defend myself or my family from a grave threat. Your behavior can sometimes get you jail time even if your right.
As for home defense no AK's like Tempest said. A shotgun is your best bet.
How many of you have seen victims on T.V. news so scared or dead and you think "just a firearm with some training he or she could still be alive and now the bad guy is at large". People make choices and some are scared to walk the streets. A peaceful citizen has a right to walk down a street without fear of being gravely harmed. The police will not be there to protect you. You are accountable for your own safety.
The bad guys will always have guns and/or other weapons. A sad but true fact.
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