PH8 or equivalent on a 6.5 TD Chevy

[Matuva]

Hi there,

I'm projecting to remote mount my oil filters.
My truck is a K1500 Chevy truck , year 1996, with the 6.5 turbo diesel engine.
Usually, I use the PH5 FRAM oil filter (13/16"-16 threads and 3/4" O-ring, no By-pass valve), but the oil filter adapter I have bought only accepts oil filters such as the PH8A (3/4"-16 threads and 2 5/8" O-ring, By-pass valve 8-11PSI)

Are the PH5 and the PH8A interchangeables in usage?
The 6.5 Chevy has a By pass valve built in block (17-19 PSI), so, is it possible to use the PH8A (or cross reference) on such an engine or is it not recommended?.

If not, wich one have following specs (WIX, AMSOIL, BALDWIN or equivalent):

Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper or synthetic

Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI 270
Maximum Flow Rate 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating 19

Gasket Diameters : 2 5/8"
Thank you for your help.

 

[Dyoel182]

The PH5 doesnt have a bypass valve but the 8 will. Not that thats a bad thing.

 

[Matuva]

Yes, that's why I am wondering if I can use the 8 with my engine, as there is a built-in by-pass valve in the block.
I'm a perfect dummy in filtration so I'm afraid of doing mistke. I just realize an oil filter is not just an oil filter, specs are important...

 

[Dyoel182]

Well the first mistake is using a Fram.

 

[Gary Allan]

If you want to retain your current bypass setting just buy a filter spec'd for a VW/Audi. They have a 30 lb bypass setting. This will be trumped by your in block bypass valve.

Or ..you can just order a Chevy remote mount from Jeg's or Summit and use your OEM filter.

There are also 3/4-16 thread filters with no bypass, but I'm unsure if you can get them in the same size as a PH8A/51515/ST8. I'm sure I've run into others, but here's one that has no bypass.

51410

Part Number: 51410
UPC Number: 765809514102
Principal Application: Ariens, Bolen, IHC, John Deere, Kohler, Toro
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Hydraulic Filter
Service: Hydraulic
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=17/41
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 25

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.729 2.415 0.200

Here's one you may really like:

Part Number: 51641
UPC Number: 765809516410
Principal Application: Nissan UD Trucks
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: By-Pass
Media: Paper
Height: 6.601
Outer Diameter Top: 4.276
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Burst Pressure-PSI: 345
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 12

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

 

[Matuva]

Hey thanks, the 51641 is close to perfect!
Just 2 points :
1- it is By-Pass type, not full flow, does it mean it will clog faster?
2- 12 microns is no too thin compared to 19 microns?

The kit I have is using a AMSOIL Ea-BP 100 + a 19 micron full flow filter, should this 51641 fit replacing the 19 micron full flow or should it be better to put the Ea-BP 100 on the side and mount 2 x 51641 instead?

 

[Gary Allan]

It has a 7-9 flow capability..the same as most others..and 12um is fine ..but not in the
You'll have no operational difficulties since you have an in block bypass ..no issues there.

I don't know the service life of this filter with your engine. Much depends on how clean your diesel is in terms of material production.

It's not all that much of a bypass filter, per se~. By most standards that I can reason, it's a really good full flow (as in rating).

The sensibility of its use is dictated by the cost/price and the service life indexed against your OCI/FCI.

Email fleetfilter and see what they get for it. For all I know they cost $20 each.

 

[Matuva]

Thanks, I will probably go 51641.
Someone told me about the WIX 51647 or the BALDWIN B246, anybody knows their specs?

 

[Gary Allan]

Part Number: 51647
UPC Number: 765809516472
Principal Application: Nissan UD Trucks 6 Cyl. Diesel
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 5.178
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 390
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

PART NUMBER: B246

Descriptions : Lube Spin-on
Contains : Anti-Drainback Valve
Replaces : Nissan 15208-W3401
Thread : 3/4-16
O.D. : 3 3/4 (95.3)
Length : 5 9/32 (134.1)
I.Gskt : G381-A

..and in a Wix...

Part Number: 51521
UPC Number: 765809515215
Principal Application: Alfa-Romeo (86-93), Nissan Cars (67-89), Porsche (70-76), VW (71-83), Case, David Brown, Ford, New Holland Tractors, Nissan, Toyota Forklifts
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

 

[Matuva]

Argh! this time I'm lost.
51641 and 51647 are WIX filters, aren't they?
Any idea of the flow-rate on the B246 and if it gets a built-in By-Pass valve?
I've seen the Max flow rate is set at 9-11 GPM on the stock filter for the 6.5 TD engine, so, if I put a filter with Max flow rate of 7-9 GPM, should it mean the lubrication could be a little "poor"?

Sorry about so many question, but as I told previously, I'm really a dummy in filtration, and I don't want to make something wrong. My engine is really working nice and it would be stupid from me to damage it because of wrong lubrication...

 

[Gregory]

.

 

[Matuva]

??

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Argh! this time I'm lost.


Fear not, my friend! Much chaos has passed through these halls of knowledge. All needs will be satisfied. All anxieties tranquilized.

Quote:
51641 and 51647 are WIX filters, aren't they?


Yes. Wix will typically have a "5" starting its numbers for oil and hydraulic filters. NAPA, in the Napa Gold offering, will drop the "5" and just use the 1XYZ.

Quote:
Any idea of the flow-rate on the B246 /?


Not officially, but they do offer it as an equivalent filter. It should have equivalent flow design potential.

Quote:
and if it gets a built-in By-Pass valve?


If it had one, Baldwin would list it in the spec's.

Quote:
I've seen the Max flow rate is set at 9-11 GPM on the stock filter for the 6.5 TD engine, so, if I put a filter with Max flow rate of 7-9 GPM, should it mean the lubrication could be a little "poor"?


Those are max flow potential from a design standpoint. They aren't necessarily what you need on your engine. My gasoline engine, normally, can only "consume" about 5 gpm MAX ..yet my filter, in Wix, still spec's 9-11 gpm flow potential. Now I have a high volume oil pump ..that ..I think (iirc) is spec'd at 9 gpm @ some rpm that I rarely operate at. If I exceed the filter's capability to pass the oil, then the differential pressure will open the bypass valve.

This can get complicated to describe here ..but 7 gpm of flow will produce some PSID in a filter. The thing that most people miss is that @ 7gpm of flow ...you're typically way above your oil pump's pressure relief setting and are losing flow already. In that scenario, the filter's bypass valve is there to limit that (in the relief state) pressure drop. If the relief is not open, the filter can only present a pressure "elevation". In most operational states the filter is invisible for the vast majority of applications.

So, your status of "lubrication" is dictated by your oil pump relief setting and your in block bypass valve setting. These two elements control your oil flow. If the relief is closed, 100% of the oil puked out of it (minus minor losses) goes through the engine. The oil has no other choice. If the relief opens, then the bypass valve manages the maximum resistance that the filter can present to the oil flow ..and therefore limits the amount of oil that is shunted during pump releif. The PSID produced at the filter is the expression of the flow divergence between pump output and flow realized to the engine. As the flows begin to match ..the pressure differential seen across the filter dissipates.

These two elements are there to provide "slack" in an otherwise solid transmission of fluid.


I'd use this filter if it had a bypass valve (I don't have one in my jeep's block).

 

[Matuva]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I'd use this filter if it had a bypass valve (I don't have one in my jeep's block).

the 51647 or B246? or the 51641?

Clear explantions, and things are really better when you understand what's going on.

Thanks a lot, I really feel less anxious

 

[Gary Allan]

The 51647 ..

It appears like a decent filter. Much would depend on what it costs and my service interval.


I don't think I asked you if you had considered the dual remote mount. If you use a dual remote mount, you can forget any complications with any of this or that as long as your lines aren't too long or too small.

Just out of curiosity, what's your peak cold oil pressure and your peak hot oil pressure (at typical cruise rpm)??

 

[Matuva]

OK, fine, that's what I was thinking too. Time to find it at internet shops shipping to New Caledonia now.

Yes, I choosen the route of dual remote, 1 full flow + 1 Bypass (AMSOIL EaBP100). The lines will be about 28" long, 8'~1/2" ID~Goodyear 300 PSI hoses.

I will check this evening peak oil pressures and report as soon as I get them.
My oil gauge reads in Kpa, what does that mean compared to PSI?

 

[Gary Allan]

100 kpa = 14.54xxx PSI

for your future convenience
http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pressure

Can I assume that you're using an Amsoil dual mount ..or are you using a thread converter for a Permacool unit? No interest in the Ea0 full flow filters

 

[Matuva]

OK, here are the pressures, at 1500 rpms
cold : 410 kpa
hot : 275 kpa

The setup I have is a permacool one, dual filters in parallel, no restriction.

EaO filters do interest me, and were my first choice but always the same question : wich one (they all have built-in bypass valve I think)? Dual EaO? or 1 EaO + 1 EaBP?

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
The setup I have is a permacool one,


Have you purchased a thread converter nipple? Remember the EaBp filters are 1-16 (Cummins diesel) thread.

Yes, the EaO filters in the 3/4-16 thread have a bypass valve. If you purchased an Amsoil Dual Guard, it comes with 1-16 threads and the Cummins (EaO) full flow has no bypass valve.

Is 1500 your idle speed? Anyway, you've got about 60% of relief (assuming that 410kpa is your peak pressure cold) limits after warm up. Do you have an idea of what your in block relief setting is? I think (not sure) that the standard SBC (gas) is about 7 psid.

 

[unDummy]

I wouldn't have too much faith in the OE bypass. Seen a bunch get sludged and varnished up.

If you are using 'dual' PH8a-SIZED filters, then the odds are that you will rarely go into bypass. And, if for some reason(thick cold oil, higher rpm) you need the bypass, at least you have the insurance of knowing that the filter will protect itself, and not rely on the block bypass.

If you want to use the EABP, flow might not be enough when sitting in parallel with a full flow filter meaning bypass won't do much work. If you want a bypass filter, get a dedicated bypass.

And, since you're running with parallel dual full flow filters, no need to worry about max flow rate since you doubled it.