F-350 PSD; 36k on unit; 5k miles on 10w-30 Rotella

[dnewton3]

Here is UOA data from my neighbor's 2005 F-350 PSD.

He's run Rotella in it since new. I've got him interested in UOA's now. He just got a Fumoto valve for ease of samples, although this particular post is the traditional "fill bottle during sump dump" type. He did not get TBN on this sample.

Notice this is the 10w-30 Rotella; I don't know if it's CI-4+ or CJ. Visc has held up nicely so far. He's got more 10w-30 in it right now, and he's going to sample along the way to see just how far and safe he can make a 10w-30 run. Although I have seen shearing in 10w-30 HDEOs in HEUI systems, so far, this one shows no signs of issues, and you can't argue that the UOA isn't supportive of this. Still - time will tell.

Driving habits are 97% unloaded truck; typical commuting drive of about 50 total miles per day (about 50% city, 50% steady throttle).

Any readings not noted were zero. All read at or less than universal averages for 5k mile sample.

AL..... 3
CHRO... 1
IRON... 16
COPPER. 2
LEAD... 2
TIN.... 1
MOLYB.. 2
NICKEL. 1
POTAS.. 7
SILICN. 6
SODIUM. 3
CALCI.. 2302
MAGNES. 7
PHOSP.. 1028
ZINC... 1185

SusVi@210... 62 (59-65)
cSt@100..... 10.89 (9.9-11.9)
Flashpt..... 410 (>400)
fuel........ antifrz..... zero
Water....... zero
insol....... .2 (
He's going to run his current 10w-30 out to 7.5k miles and sample including TBN.

 

[Steve S]

Seems to be a real real good uoa. Impressive?

 

[addyguy]

Don't know much about reading diesel UOA's, but it looks really good - very little shearing (VOA visc. is about, 11.5, I think..), and low everything, including insoluables. Looks like it could easily go 7.5k.

One thing to keep an eye on, though, is the potassium number - I know its only a trace amount, but it is an ingredient in anti-freeze, so he'll want to make sure a leak isn't developing. Good thing he's plannng on doing more samples.

 

[Harley Anderson]

Very nice report for the engine and the oil. I'm sure dnewton3 is loving the 0.2% insoluables with no bp filter. I wonder if rotella 15w40 would of sheared down at all in this same oci.

 

[Steve S]

I have come back with a question.This is a winter oil or will 10/30 be used during the summer and if so I will be hopefully waiting for a uoa.

 

[dnewton3]

He's had this truck since new in late 2005. He's been running 10w-30 Rotella in it since factory fill. I was under the impression that he was swapping from 10w-30 in winter to 15w-40 in summer, but he told me it's been ONLY 10w-30 Rotella at 5k mile OCI's.

Now, I've got him interested in longer drain intervals, and UOA's. He's bought and installed a Fumoto valve for sampling.

I find it interesting that this 10w-30 HDEO has done so well. Since he lives next door to me, we talk often. I've got him convinced the right thing to do is be consistent with his brand and viscosity; this will greatly reduce variation in the UOA inputs!

This might be an excellent oportunity to prove/disprove the myth that 10w-30 HDEO is not a good choice for diesels, especially the PSD.

 

[Harley Anderson]

The only thing that would scare me with running a dino 30wt HDEO in a PSD is that if the oil did shear would the oil still protect and keep wear at a minumum. Maybe slowly pushing the oci out would be the best thing to do. Also how many miles on the truck?

 

[dnewton3]

Total miles on the truck was 36k at the time the sample was sent in. I think he's nearly at 40k by now.

The shearing is certainly a thing to keep an eye on, but at least this sample shows at 5k miles, shearing is a non-issue. As the phrase goes, "the proof is in the pudding." If you review the UOA closely, it's very good. Again, all aspects were at least at universal averages; several were better; some were zero. I know that there is a predominant thought that PSD engines shear oil, and they do for sure, but here's an oportunity to see just how bad, and how quickly. He's run 10w-30 Rotella for several OCI's now, so the normalization of chemistry has already taken place. Now we're in a period of establishing trends and ranges.

I can tell you that 10w-30 certainly does help with cold weather starts and cold idle quality and drivability. I've ridden in his PSD, and others that run 15w-40. The 10w-30 really helps with engine cranking, and that in turn helps with the "romp" associated with HEUI systems with cold oil.

His intent, at my provocation, it to run this current load of 10w-30 to 7.5k and sample, with TBN. If it's still good, he's going to push it out a bit more and sample yet again.

This neighbor is no idiot. He's a facility engineer for a major pharmaceutical company in town. He deals with the concepts of batch sampling and clinical cleanliness every day. I've just got him demented enough to be interested in extended drain intervals.

 

[REDDOG]

This is great. I am very interested in following along, thanks for posting! This looks great and I predict the 10W-30 will hold up well past 7.5k. Our PSD at work has always reduced Rotella 15W-40 to 30wt by 5k anyway! LOL

What year is this truck?

Thanks again!

REDDOG

 

[dnewton3]

Neighbor's truck is a 2005 F-350 model.

I'm VERY interested to see if we can dispell the myth that 10w-30 isn't a good choice for a PSD, or any diesel for that matter.

My neighbor uses the truck for a daily commute; about 50 miles round trip. He also uses it for occasional towing of a Kubota, but that's rare. Because he get's it up to temp, and runs it for both city and highway driving, it's sees a good cycle of use. It's not a grocery getter running only 10 minutes at a time.

Further, I don't think he's added any make up oil during his OCI's. Now, he might be using a wee bit of oil, but when you consider that the PSD capacity is 15 quarts (I think he just puts in the whole 4 gallons though), if he burns off a quart or two in 10k miles, it really doesn't make a huge amount of difference on the dip stick. It's not like his losing one quart out of 16 quarts is going to make the "low oil pressure" light come on.

My Duramax, however, uses oil dependent upon the load useage factor. In light-load driving, I don't seem to use a drop of oil. But under heavy loads (pulling a travel trailer in summer heat) it will run right under the GM stated "1 quart per 100 gallons fuel used" rate of oil consumption.

If he (my neighbor) gets a few UOA's back that shows the Rotella 10w-30 to be a good choice, I will seriously consider giving it a try in my Dmax, year round. The new CJ-4 Rotella formulations are (by Shell's claims) even better at wear reduction than the CI-4+ they replace. And CJ-4 is aimed squarely at soot control as well; increased EGR is part of the new emmisions packages, so by design the CJ-4 oils are likely to be better at controlling insolubles. I'd like to confirm or deny those claims with real world experience.

I see some obvious, and not-so-obvious, advantages to running a 10w-30 HDEO year round. On the obvious side, in winter, it just pumps up quicker; that's a definite plus, especially in a HEUI system like the PSD. But I also see an advantage in the summer that many people might argue against. If a 10w-30 burns off just a bit quicker, then you would be "freshening" it more often with "top off" oil additions. For example, if I used it this summer for my travel trailer pulling, and it burns off just a bit more oil, then when I add oil, I'm replenishing the additive package that much more, that much sooner. Rotella (around our region of the mid-west) is so darn prevelant in both weights that it can often be found for the same price (about $9/gallon on sale). "So what" if I have to top off a bit more often? The benefit of "topping off" might just outweigh the monetary cost of the "top off" volume.

The question really becomes this: where is the trade-off between the desireable attributes of a 10w-30 HDEO vs. a 15w-40 HDEO? Can the cold pumpability gains in winter off-set the percieved better protection of a heavier weight in summer?

The caveot of this experiment we are interested in is that UOA's absolutely must the be driving decision-making factor here. Any UOA that shows an oil to be past it's ability to properly protect the engine is automatically going to be grounds for an OCI. We are not risking our own expensinve diesel engines for the sake of the "quest". If anything gets out of line, it's time for a OCI, period.

Still - I believe we'll be able to put factual basis to this nagging question over the next year or so.

Stay tuned!

 

[Steve S]

All motors use oil dependent on the load .Before the 15w/40 oils came on the market Cummins diesel motors used straight 30 wt. I know that as a fact because I owned one in a semi truck. The miles before overhaul used to be 500,000 to 600,000 miles for over the road use. I don't know if it was the 15w/40 oil or the better add package better build quality but the miles before overhaul in over the road trucks has increased with luck to over a million miles .Oils are way better now so 10w30 may work I would like to know what the engine mfg.response is to the use of the viscosity. what about the rotella 5w/40 soon it may change formulation to CJ-4 and possible benefits at both ends of the temperature ranges. I'll stay tuned.

 

[dnewton3]

My Dmax is currently on Rotella 5w-40 "synthetic". When the new CJ-4 comes out in that product, I suspect it will be a bit more expensive than it is now; perhaps near $18/gallon?

If we can get a CJ-4 10w-30 HDEO Rotella for half that price, and it shows good UOA results, then it might very well be more cost effective to "burn" a bit more of the lesser weight oil, and top-off as we go.

This is the very reason we're doing this experiment; to track UOA's and do a cost analysis. He drives more than 15k miles a year, but I run less than 10k in my truck. I can easily go with one OCI a year, and if I can do it with the 10w-30 HDEO Rotella, and sustain good UOA's, then why spend the extra money?

This has always been my contention with the whole "synthetic versus conventional" arguement. Synthetics and bypass filtration do a fantastic job of extending OCI's, but if you don't drive very far in a year, the added expense is just to make you feel good about some "over the top" maintenance attitude; the results don't reflect any differences if you do short OCI's. So in this regard, if we can get the 10w-30 HDEO for it's cold flow properties, and if it protects well in the heat of summer (with some top-off oil) and it's only $9/gallon, why spend more money or use a heavier weight oil?

There is a downside to a heavier oil, but few consider it in a diesel light duty truck; fuel mileage. Thinner oil pumps easier; that's the whole reason you see 5w-20 in most of today's new gas vehicles. So if we can get good UOA results from the 10w-30 HDEO, and it pumps better in winter, protects as well in summer, and costs less at the pump, why not use it?

Clearly, as evidenced by the UOA I posted, the arguement of a 10w-30 not performing well in a PSD is possilby an exaggereated risk, or maybe an outright myth!

That's the joy of this whole experiment!

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Great UOA. This gets me to thinking (dangerous) that I might try the HDD 5W-30 Amsoil in my truck. I ran it a few years back when I owned a PSD and it showed excellent wear numbers.

If I can pick up 1 MPG by switching to a 30W oil, and get the same wear then it's worth it.

I just purchased a case of Schaeffer's though

 

[dnewton3]

Arka - I don't think that the HDD would be a risk at all. It might evaporate a bit quicker, but as I've stated, that simply allows more opportunity to replenish every once in a while, helping to bolster the additive package.

One of the (nearly) unknown oils I've always been curious about, but have never found a true source for, is the Castol 5w-30 "synthetic" HDEO Elixion. It's an interesting oil; PAO based. Here's the link: http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82915561&contentId=7019852

I have always believed the great advantage to a heavier weight 15w-40 conventional oil is it's resistance to oxidation and evaporation. However, this UOA surely shows that a quality HDEO in 10w-30 can hold up quite well; the insolubles, viscosity and such are all under good control. And that's a compliment considering how hard HEUI is on an oil's viscosity.

I am SERIOUSLY considering trying some Rotella 10w-30 in my Dmax based on this UOA. If I do, I'm going to run it (UOA dependent) for several OCI's to see if I can establish whether a 10w-30 is "friend or foe".