Experience with Redline Oil???

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
* For what use do you think the GM EOS is intended? Is it a general use additive or for break-in only?

Does it matter? You add it to the oil that already has API/ILSAC/etc. approval, why? Because all of those OEM oils do not have what it takes to protect the engine during breakin and severe duty situations.
[/quote] You seem to imply that the GM EOS is supposed to be used at every oil change, but I don't think that's how GM intends you use it.
If this is intended as a supplement for API/ILSAC oils, what about ACEA oils? What about oils that are both API and ACEA approved, does the one spec negate the other?
And what in the world is going on with GM engines that they want people to put in 3 cows worth of calcium during break-in? Did they forget to clean the engine at the factory?

 

[azsynthetic]

Three things come to mind. One, you do not understand the meaning of the phrase "competition bred". Two, your inability to differentiate between the performance differences of a GM V6 and a GM LS9 engine. Three, you have never taken your vehicle to the limit to understand why OEM oils are unsuitable for serious use.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Three things come to mind. One, you do not understand the meaning of the phrase "competition bred". Two, your inability to differentiate between the performance differences of a GM V6 and a GM LS9 engine. Three, you have never taken your vehicle to the limit to understand why OEM oils are unsuitable for serious use.

Back to the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense I see.

Where's the tech, babe?

 

[jpr]

Upon further reflection, perhaps you are on to something with this "competition bred" theory of yours. Perhaps you could send a suggestion to Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Motul, etc. that they ought to think about getting involved in the motorsports scene.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: BullyT
Originally Posted By: jpr
Guess it depends which one you are talking about, IIRC the French told Arthur they already had one (and one can always trust the French, right?)

I think there is also some grammatical wiggle room in using the phrase "holy grail" to refer in a general sense to an object of a probably impossible quest rather than to just the one proper "Holy Grail". Of course, they may be some overlap, as I've been led to believe from some posters here that the chalice JC used at the Last Supper was in fact a 1 quart easy pour bottle molded in purple plastic.


It appears you are correct on all counts. I had to consult my copy of the immortal Monty Python "Quest for the Holy Grail" screenplay, and sure enough the impossibly rude French knights did tell Arthur they already had a Holy Grail. They even said it was "very nice".

My apologies for hijacking this thread. Just trying to keep the pinata from getting knocked around too much...
No apology necessary, it's a thoroughly enjoyable diversion. Plus, you've given my the idea that a better nickname for the pinata would be "Sir Belvedere"

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jpr
Upon further reflection, perhaps you are on to something with this "competition bred" theory of yours. Perhaps you could send a suggestion to Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Motul, etc. that they ought to think about getting involved in the motorsports scene.


The difference is that Castrol, Shell, Mobil, etc. do not make a street version of their race oil, Redline and RP do. Not only that, have you ever try to buy the special race oil from Mobil or Castrol?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jpr
so here's one last leading question for you - what's hotter, AZ in summer or inside your engine?


Apparently you know very little about thermodynamics, the answer is who cares? You need to read up on the thermal transfer property of liquid to solid and solid to gas then ask yourselves what is the different in the case of 125 degree and 75 degree ambience temperatures and how is this rate apply to the engine oil.

Also, stop asking stupid donkey questions and spend a day at the race track. The factory oil reps there will educate you more in one day than what you can read here on the internet. Oh yeah, they have tech data there also.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: jpr
so here's one last leading question for you - what's hotter, AZ in summer or inside your engine?

The question could be futher expanded for light entertainment, and off topic. As I don't know the answer I.

What part of the engine is hotter?
Under the bonnet after a 10 mile trip at 35mphr ?
Under the bonnet after a 100 mile trip at 80mphr ?
Under the bonnet first thing the morning ?
After a 2 mile trip to the corner store ?
After 3 hours of continuous door to door courier service in the City centre combating stop and go driving?
The list goes on.

Do you need to be in AZ to experience this ?

My CPU doesn't ask what City or State I am driving in so the oil in the sump is working uninformed of what may be ahead. It will need to work using its basic instincts given to it by the oil blender.

 

[jpr]

Alright, Sir Belevdere, perhaps now we've got something we can work with - try letting these tidbits rattle around in your head for bit (all engine numbers approximate of typical engines)
* 75 deg F = 24 deg C
* 125 deg F = 52 deg C
* Engine oil operating temp = 90~100 deg C
* High oil temp = 120 deg C
* Way to high oil temp = 135 deg C
* Time to be worried oil temp = 148 deg C
* HT/HS measurement temp = 150 deg C
* Absolute max temp on most every aftermarket oil temp gauge = 171 deg C
* Flash point of synthetic oils = 220~240 deg C
---
Engine coolant warning indication = 120 deg C
Engine coolant boiling point = 130 deg C

BTW - if your engine coolant has turned to gas, you've got big problems. Likewise, while the increase in ambient temperature does affect the efficiency of the cooling system, the tempeature difference is small potatoes in comparison with the operating temp of your engine. If your car consequently overheats due that anbient temperature difference, then you've got a cooling system issue, not an engine oil issue.

There's a few reasons to find high HT/HS desireable, but location is not one of them.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Do you need to be in AZ to experience this ?

My CPU doesn't ask what City or State I am driving in so the oil in the sump is working uninformed of what may be ahead. It will need to work using its basic instincts given to it by the oil blender.
My hat's off to you, that's much more clever and amusing than what I wrote.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: jpr
Upon further reflection, perhaps you are on to something with this "competition bred" theory of yours. Perhaps you could send a suggestion to Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Motul, etc. that they ought to think about getting involved in the motorsports scene.


The difference is that Castrol, Shell, Mobil, etc. do not make a street version of their race oil, Redline and RP do. Not only that, have you ever try to buy the special race oil from Mobil or Castrol?
Hmmm, what exactly do you mean by that Belvedere? Does one company make their "race" and another entirely seperate company make their "street" oil with no communication or technology transfer between them? Is making "street" oil just by dumping some detergent in to "race" oil really a good solution? Did you know Valvoline makes a "race" oil that is both API SM approved and available at Amazon.com?

For that matter, just what in the world do YOU think the difference is between a "race" oil and a "street" oil?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jpr

* 75 deg F = 24 deg C
* 125 deg F = 52 deg C
* Engine oil operating temp = 90~100 deg C
* High oil temp = 120 deg C
* Way to high oil temp = 135 deg C
* Time to be worried oil temp = 148 deg C
* HT/HS measurement temp = 150 deg C
* Absolute max temp on most every aftermarket oil temp gauge = 171 deg C
* Flash point of synthetic oils = 220~240 deg C
---
Engine coolant warning indication = 120 deg C
Engine coolant boiling point = 130 deg C

BTW - if your engine coolant has turned to gas, you've got big problems. Likewise, while the increase in ambient temperature does affect the efficiency of the cooling system, the tempeature difference is small potatoes in comparison with the operating temp of your engine. If your car consequently overheats due that anbient temperature difference, then you've got a cooling system issue, not an engine oil issue.

There's a few reasons to find high HT/HS desireable, but location is not one of them.


Proof positive, you have absolute no idea how an engine works do you?

Engine coolant temperature (liquid to solid thermal transfer) is not the same as engine oil temperature. Engine coolant does not get expose to the combustion gases like the engine oil (gas to liquid thermal transfer). Another factor that affects this is the oil cooled turbo. At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.

The problem with driving in AZ is that your oil (not coolant) might not survive the slow thermal transfer rate due to the elevated temperature. You can have a perfect engine coolant system and still destroy your oil. Like I said, you need to study thermodynamics instead of just reading the spec.

 

[jaredyost]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.


What proof do you have that no API oil would survive? Can an oil not surpass API just because it has the spec?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jpr

Is making "street" oil just by dumping some detergent in to "race" oil really a good solution? Did you know Valvoline makes a "race" oil that is both API SM approved and available at Amazon.com?

For that matter, just what in the world do YOU think the difference is between a "race" oil and a "street" oil?


Another spec reading problem eh?

Valvoline has three type of racing oils, one is streetable and two are not, why? The specs should tell you.

A race oil is designed to protect the engine at all cost.

A street oil is a compromise between fuel economy, EPA, cost, availability, warranty, etc.

This is the spec for Mobile 0w30 Racing from their website verbatim:

[b]Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is a proprietary blend of high-performance synthetic basestocks fortified with SuperSyn anti-wear technology. This advanced protection is engineered to deliver maximum horsepower.

Has boosted levels of anti-wear protection -- well beyond those of ordinary automotive oils -- to help protect engines even during grueling racing applications.

Maximizes power output by reducing internal friction.

Has outstanding shear stability and a robust additive package to help reduce oil breakdown and help extend engine life, even under the most extreme conditions.

Compared to conventional racing oils and higher-viscosity synthetic motor oils, it provides faster flow to critical engine parts at low temperatures

Delivers exceptional high-temperature protection, even at temperatures up to 400 degrees F (204 C)

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is intended for professional, amateur "weekend" race cars, as well as, modern high-output engines of all kinds. It is ideal for supercharged, turbocharged and high-revving, high-performance engines used in street applications. Note: Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is a different formula than Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 0W-30.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is especially suitable for racing conditions, where conventional oil may not provide adequate protection

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is designed for use by professional, amateur and weekend racers.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is ideal for high-horsepower, high output engines used in street applications.

Mobil 1 is not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer. [/b]

CASE CLOSED

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.


What proof do you have that no API oil would survive? Can an oil not surpass API just because it has the spec?


Ask Mobil and they will tell you why.

 

[jaredyost]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.


What proof do you have that no API oil would survive? Can an oil not surpass API just because it has the spec?


Ask Mobil and they will tell you why.


Ok. If you don't have the answer that is fine.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.


What proof do you have that no API oil would survive? Can an oil not surpass API just because it has the spec?


Ask Mobil and they will tell you why.


Ok. If you don't have the answer that is fine.


I do but I really want jpr to read it for himself. PM me if you want to know.

 

[jaredyost]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: jaredyost
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race. The oil used was Mobil special racing oil. Any API approved oil would have caused the engine to seize.


What proof do you have that no API oil would survive? Can an oil not surpass API just because it has the spec?


Ask Mobil and they will tell you why.


Ok. If you don't have the answer that is fine.


I do but I really want jpr to read it for himself. PM me if you want to know.


I can wait...

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hello,
the HRT's winning V8 Commodore at Bathurst in '02 was using a "tweaked" version of the API compliant M1 15w-50 as I understand it. This was their "racing oil" I believe.
I spent time with the winning Driver(s) and Mobil's Lubricant Engineers some two weeks or so after the event (in Brisbane & with the late Peter Brock later in Melbourne)and this matter was discussed then as I recall

Many Porsche race teams use M1 0w-40 (API/ACEA compliant) straight off the shelf!

This all has nothing much to do with the title of this Thread!

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hello,
the HRT's winning V8 Commodore at Bathurst in '02 was using a "tweaked" version of the API compliant M1 15w-50 as I understand it. This was their "racing oil" I believe.
I spent time with the winning Driver(s) and Mobil's Lubricant Engineers some two weeks or so after the event (in Brisbane & with the late Peter Brock later in Melbourne)and this matter was discussed then as I recall

Many Porsche race teams use M1 0w-40 (API/ACEA compliant) straight off the shelf!



You are correct, it was Tweaked (with a capital T). The API M1 15w50 was found to be inadequate. Porsche race teams did not use the M1 0w40 until late 2006 when Mobil discontinued the Racing 0w30.