Porsche 20k Oil Change Intervals

[hutchingsp]

I've a late 2006 Porsche Boxster 2.7 manual.

Porsche service intervals are 20,000 miles or every 2 years, and owing to mileage it's due its first service.

Here in the UK a Porsche dealer will charge around $30 a litre for Mobil 1 0w40 which got me looking at how much it would be to supply my own - the cheapest I found for Mobil 1 0w40 is Costco where it's $46 per 4L.

I also got to looking into what other oils are on the Porsche Approved Oils list which got me looking at Fuchs, Motul and Shell Helix, and it also led me to stumble upon this place.

My daily commute is around 20 miles each direction, mostly 70mph free flowing roads, I'm curious why I wouldn't want to simply stick to the manufacturers oil change intervals as surely a company like Porsche (or any other large car manufacturer) would recommend what works best for their engines?

For this first service I've taken the easy option and got 12L of Mobil 1 0w40.

 

[mcrn]

I personally would never run an oil that long in a car that cost that much, If you can afford a car like that I would imagine you can afford to do an oil change at least once a year. However if you do want to follow what they say I would definitely get a used oil analysis done at say a 7500 mile mark on your fresh oil just to see how everything is working. I am sure Porsche knows what they are talking about but I am also sure that they are more concerned about you getting out of your warranty range as apposed to get the longest life out of your vehicle. I am sure its possible that Mobil 0w40 can go that long under the perfect situation. But I doubt that it would last that long under a more extreme condition. IMHO.

 

[saaber1]

First of all, the Porsche 20K recommended interval is for marketing purposes. I say this due to their website as well as owners and mechanics opinions:

Second, I have had several Porsche mechanics, both from dealer and indy shops, say 10k miles or one year, whichever comes first is what you want to do. Some mechanics and many owners (including me) say that a 7500 mile interval is ideal. See discussions here http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14406&highligh and here http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16554&hl=uoa . My M1 0W40 UOA at 8500 miles or so showed the TBN to be 1/2 of the starting TBN, which some people say means it's time to change the oil. Also the viscosity was thinned out enough so that it should be changed IMO.

Third, and this is a controversial point, there may be better oils than Mobil 1 0W40 for your car. Mobil 1 shears to a 30 weight and has shown iron levels in the 20-30s on used oil reports on Porsches (see discussions above). Currently I am trying redline 5W40 in my 3.2l boxster. I noticed no difference in the first 800 miles. After that however my car is much quieter and smoother, especially above 5000 rpm (lots of people will argue this point that an oil won't make your car quieter but there is no doubt on my car). No noticable difference in power. I don't have any idea on wear levels yet but my gut feel is that a redline 5W40 or the Mobil 1 5W40 like Doug Hilary uses is better for this car than Mobil 1 0W40. Of course you may want to check into if any of these oils would void your warranty if applicable. Also, when considering opinions of posters (mine included) keep an eye out for bias. Some folks are associated with certain oil companies and may not be objective. Others who are associated with certain companies are incredibly objective! From what I have seen, overall the forum posters are objective I would say and if they aren't the peer review brings bias to the surface I think.

 

[hutchingsp]

Originally Posted By: saaber1

Third, and this is a controversial point, there may be better oils than Mobil 1 0W40 for your car.


Yeah I guess the issue is understanding which and why vs. simply going with what they recommend.

I'm not mechanically minded, don't get me wrong I know a lot of the cost of Mobil 1 goes towards their marketing, but equally despite the "Approved Oil List" I think you'd struggle to find any Porsche dealer in the UK that uses anything except Mobil 1 whether you've a Boxster or a Carrera GT.

However paranoid I would want to stick to something off the Porsche Approved list as it makes life easier in the event of a warranty claim (apparently it doesn't take much in terms of parts/labour before Porsche just crate out a new engine), and from the list the easiest to get in the UK would be Fuchs Titan, Motul 8100 and Helix Ultra.

I have to say I find it incredible how little you guys pay for fully synthetic oil, I know labour is the killer when you're talking Porsche dealer vs. Jiffy Lube but still when it seems you're paying around $8-10 per litre for top quality oils that's just plain ridiculous

 

[Kestas]

Wow, threads like this are a reality check and let me know how good we have it here in the US, especially when I just bought regular Shell 5W-30 for 59¢ a quart.

Perhaps if you shop around and list which 0W-40 oils (and even 5W-40 oils, if that's acceptable to you) are available, and for which price, then we can help you economize without sacrificing quality.

Ditto to ignoring the 20K OCI recommendation and changing sooner... much sooner.

A Porsche belongs on the road... in healthy condition!

 

[Steve S]

Probably there is a good chance the oil will last that long. Do a uoa at 10,000 miles to see how the oil is holding up then decide the oil change interval.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: hutchingsp

I would want to stick to something off the Porsche Approved list as it makes life easier in the event of a warranty claim


I hear you there, so I would stick with the Mobil 1 and just change it every 7500 (ideal) to 10,000 (max) (change more often if you track it of course). Also the boxster oil/filter is extremely easy to change. It is as easy as most cars on the road. It is very accesible and I have no idea why dealers/Indy shops charge so much.

If you want to know what an oil change costs in the US: Do it yourself = (1) Filter including o ring $11.25 + (2) crush washer $0.20 + (3) M1 0W40 at maybe $6?? x 9 liters ($54) = $65.45 total. Dealer/Indy = around $150-$200 total [/quote]

 

[coffee]

Well, I am a 5-7.5k OCI man and would never go 20k on an oil. I didn't realize how expensive oil would be for you all but I would still stick with an under 10k OCI.

 

[wavinwayne]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Probably there is a good chance the oil will last that long. Do a uoa at 10,000 miles to see how the oil is holding up then decide the oil change interval.


Exactly. Anything else is throwing money out the window.

 

[rshaw125]

How many quarts does the Boxster take??

 

[hutchingsp]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Wow, threads like this are a reality check and let me know how good we have it here in the US, especially when I just bought regular Shell 5W-30 for 59¢ a quart.


Well I appreciate economies (both financial and of scale) are different but an example from the UK's largest car part chain would be Mobil 1 0w40, 4L at £46 so around $90.

At the local Shell, 5w40 Helix Ultra is £37 for 4L so around $70.

Not wishing to sound rude but I did chuckle a bit when I read threads with people complaining at < $40 fully Mobil Oil Changes

 

[hutchingsp]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
How many quarts does the Boxster take??


The manual says 7.75L with a filter removal/change, the dealers quote on 8.5L when servicing so somewhere in between I guess.

 

[cheetahdriver]

don't worry about the 20k oil change recommendation, you just hit on why it is there. find me another engine of this size with a two GALLON sump. i had a cayenne V8 for 65k miles and never did anything other than 20k OCIs.

anything on the porsche approved list is a worthwhile oil. personally, M1 0W-40 is my oil of choice but there are none of them that would bother me to use, they are all very high quality oils.

if you go off this list, 7.5k oil changes may not be quick enough.

 

[hutchingsp]

Originally Posted By: cheetahdriver
if you go off this list, 7.5k oil changes may not be quick enough.


To be fair at $40 a pop I'd probably do that, $200-300 a pop is a little different, plus of course, and I have to be careful how I word this but here goes - as technology moves on in terms of lubricants and engines and machining tolerances etc. it seems a little odd that many people seem to change their oil so frequently, and I'm trying to wrap my head around how much of that is based on hard fact and how much is that to some people their car is a past time and changing the Oil is almost a hobby in the same way as when the weather is nice I spend far to long washing and detailing mine compared to what some would consider normal?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
hutchingsp - This thread has developed very well indeed. I hope I can remain objective!

Firstly, Porsche have ALWAYS had long OCIs, ever since they started building cars and engines for sale - from around 1955! Over 50 years!!!

Secondly I don’t believe that Porsche were foolish in establishing the two years and 32kkms (20k miles) maximum OCI service policy when using their Approved and Listed lubricants.
Some other Euro engine makers have done so too

It serves to remind us that we are using a very valuable resource and that their research has shown that the Approved and Listed lubricants will do the job very well indeed - any of the 100 or so on the their List! In our near future we will see two or more years or “lifetime” fill become commonplace across a raft of engine manufacturers!

It is interesting to note that Porsche carried out a systematic and well controlled UOA programme in NA commencing with MY02 and continued it for some years. They will have data that we can but dream about! They do NOT set services intervals at levels that would impact on Warranty and/or durability

I also carried out testing commencing some years ago to prove/disprove Porsche’s policy after a well known Porsche service provider in California (and another here in Sydney) promoted the “fallacy” of it and that his subjective and wrong policy of 3k miles OCI regardless was correct! My testing to establish the point (see RENNLIST 928 Forum - search “Oil Condition Report”) over nearly four years showed that the 20kkms (12k miles) or two year OCI is actually very conservative! This programme is continuing amongst some 928 owners here in OZ with records going into my database

For those persons who don’t agree with the (any) engine’s manufacturer, they can simply use UOAs to establish an OCI that they feel comfortable with - it’s as simple as that really
For many, the real problem with UOAs is in the interpretation - especially the level and source of wear metals. Many chase “spooks” in this area! Some people still believe that single pass UOAs with different lubricants will tell a true wear history of the engine and how good/bad a lubricant is!

As we know (and have done for 60 years or so) , UOAs are excellent tool for determining the OCI in most machinery - and it is always wise to remember that wear metals are accumulative! As an example I have run many of my very expensive ($45000) engines with iron at up to 150ppm when at the lubricant’s condemnation point - and their overall durability has been really exceptional. Some engines are now at 2m kms (1.24m miles) without a rebuild!

Both Porsche and Benz in this country (and in Germany) are very happy with the performance of M1 0w-40 which is mandatory in OZ - and Benz have much local data to back it up! Their average OCI is around 18k kms!
My CLK Benz (on M1 0w-40) has a “reactive” service indicator and it runs at around 15k-17k OCIs

As for other lubricants, the Porsche Approved List contains around 100 Brands/versions and around 80% are of 5w-40 viscosity - the balance are 0w-40 viscosity. There is only one SAE50 lubricant, Mobil 1 5w-50! I believe that they will all perform about the same and I am very sure that Porsche know this.
The performance margins from one to another in engine life/durability and etc. will be VERY minor indeed!
Technicians from Stuttgart (some ex the 1960-1970s racing programme) that I have spent time with are adamant that M1 0w-40 is “the” lubricant for all road going Porsches - and they use it for racing too in late series engines!

I have yet to hear of an engine using M1 0w-40 that has suffered any sort of measurable “excessive” wear or lubricant related issue - from Porsche, Benz or Mobil - or from any owners! I have seen a number of high “mileage” Porsche and Benz engines that have used this lubricant from new and they have all been internally clean, consumption low and with no discernible wear being evident in the valve train region

M1 0w-40 sells here within a price range of from $65 to $95 for a 5 litre pack. Porsche charges about $25 for a filter

My use of a non Approved 5w-40 synthetic lubricant in my Porsche is based on past history - and with the approval of Porsche here in OZ. They know my history quite well! I know the history of their M96 engine too. And, I am fully aware about the structure and performance of the lubricant after many years of use and I purchase it in "bulk"
I live in the Tropics too where an average cold start in summer is 27C and in winter about 10C - maximum ambient is over 40C and humidity can be 90%>

With MY2007 cars Porsche will pull the two years point back to one year - this is due to the conversion of all engine families to Direct Injection (DI) from that point! A 0w-40 viscosity lubricant will still be the only one permitted in the twin turbo V8 engine family!

I am retired and I do NOT have an affiliation with any Oil Company. I selectively use Mobil, Castrol and Shell lubricants in my vehicles

Now, being totally objective, it is wise to remember that there really is no magic lubricant!

Regards
Doug

 

[BarkerMan]

Good comments Doug. The thing you have to consider is the larger oil capacity. That's the difference. Porsche engines also control the oil temp well and with fly by wire in cars today the computer can help to protect the engine. Together it makes a 20k oci workable. This is one place a uoa is useful, for monitoring not the wear but the condition of the oil.

 

[PT1]

Sorry, but the cost of a porsche engine has always encouraged me to do an OCI at about 1/2 of what they recommend. I would never run ANY oil longer than 12 months. My concern would be all of the corrosives you might be pumping through that motor in the 2nd year.

 

[rshaw125]

So the capacity with filter change is about 8.25 US quarts?

I think its interesting that we us the English system of weights and measures and in England they use the French metric system.

 

[hutchingsp]

Thanks Doug that's one heck of a detailed reply - appreciate it and it's gone some way to offsetting the "your engine will blow up" paranoia that one feels reading some of the posts on a site such as this

PT1 - agree entirely, however as I've owned the car since new and will likely own it for several more years it'll be under Porsche warranty/extended Porsche warranty for a long time yet, so whilst I take the point that shouldn't be an issue so long as I follow their service intervals.

rshaw125 - we're a ****ed strange country, we buy petrol and oil in litres but work in terms of mpg, we buy beer and milk in pints, but bottles of all other drinks are usually litres. We used to sell Bananas and fruit/vegetables by the pound until the EU got involved and now you have signs advertising products in both Kilo's and Pounds and, I kid you not, traders being prosecuted for refusing to advertise products by the Kilo.

 

[buster]

Quote:
appreciate it and it's gone some way to offsetting the "your engine will blow up" paranoia that one feels reading some of the posts on a site such as this


The fact that engines are not failing says a lot.

What Doug said about the upper limit for Fe @ 150 ppm echoes that of the engineer I spoke with that said engines can run for a very long time spitting out a lot of iron. You really need to know what specifics are involved. Even with that said, I still would rather have low wear metals via oil analysis than high.