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Straight weight in a bike?
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Originally Posted By: Gary in Sandy Eggo
Originally Posted By: Gary in Sandy Eggo
Quote:
There was a member in your area who used straight weight 40 or 50 oil in his street bike. He kept a light bulb under the engine to keep the oil warm.
That was/is me. Intruder 1400. 5000 mile oil change intervals. Oil's almost as clean when I drain it as when I first put it in. I'm easy on it though as the bike always goes a minimum of 120 miles for every cold start.
I just commented to him in a different thread regarding the use of a mono-grade. No riding under 90F+, I'd be using SAE-50, not SAE-40.
I forgot to add that my 5-quart capacity bike uses about 1/8" of oil on the dipstick (less than 1/4 of a quart) between 5000 mile oil changes.
That's a good engine on that bike. I had a '91 1400 Intruder that I rode (hard) for 4 years in the south Florida heat and it never gave me a minute's trouble. I used Pennzoil or Valvoline dino 20W-50 (whichever was on sale) on 3000 mile OCI's and never had a single problem in almost 40,000 miles. It ran hot as Hades as it was air/oil cooled and was jetted lean to comply with EPA regs, but it was reliable and strong.
Originally Posted By: Gary in Sandy Eggo
Quote:
There was a member in your area who used straight weight 40 or 50 oil in his street bike. He kept a light bulb under the engine to keep the oil warm.
That was/is me. Intruder 1400. 5000 mile oil change intervals. Oil's almost as clean when I drain it as when I first put it in. I'm easy on it though as the bike always goes a minimum of 120 miles for every cold start.
I just commented to him in a different thread regarding the use of a mono-grade. No riding under 90F+, I'd be using SAE-50, not SAE-40.
I forgot to add that my 5-quart capacity bike uses about 1/8" of oil on the dipstick (less than 1/4 of a quart) between 5000 mile oil changes.
That's a good engine on that bike. I had a '91 1400 Intruder that I rode (hard) for 4 years in the south Florida heat and it never gave me a minute's trouble. I used Pennzoil or Valvoline dino 20W-50 (whichever was on sale) on 3000 mile OCI's and never had a single problem in almost 40,000 miles. It ran hot as Hades as it was air/oil cooled and was jetted lean to comply with EPA regs, but it was reliable and strong.
After reading this thread, I started thinking about how my Honda CBR600F1 would react if I started using a straight 40 weight oil? Reson for this thought is becuase the majority of UOAs I read from the motorcycle UOA section all shear out of grade very fast. My bike is only ridden in the spring/summer/fall months and the coldest start it may ever see is 55-60 degrees F. I wonder if a straight 40 weight will hold up well to a transmission that is capable of spinning 12,000+ RPMs? Would there be any reasons not to run a single weight oil in a 4 cylinder sportbike?
Straight wt oil will be better just remember to drive easy untill the oil is at operating temps. Straight wts will protect better by far.
every straight weight that i have tested stayed in grade.
as a matter of fact, my sae30 test results were BETTER!!! than the 10w40 results from the same brand!
as a matter of fact, my sae30 test results were BETTER!!! than the 10w40 results from the same brand!
If it were my bike, and i were going to go straight weight, I'd put a 30 in it, not a 40. If my bike were spec'd for a 40, I'd still put a 30 in it, because the manufacturer surely knows the oil will shear, so they spec a slightly thicker oil than required. That's just my own theory...
Originally Posted By: Titan
If it were my bike, and i were going to go straight weight, I'd put a 30 in it, not a 40. If my bike were spec'd for a 40, I'd still put a 30 in it, because the manufacturer surely knows the oil will shear, so they spec a slightly thicker oil than required. That's just my own theory...
This is true, but my bike calls for either a 10W-40 or 20W-50 so running a 40 weight should not be a problem. I always give my bike at least one minute of warm up time before I hit the road and at least 5 minutes when it is below 65 degrees. My only concerns are the cold starts, so what would be the lowest temp I could go when using straight 40? Would there be any other concerns I should be aware of when using a straight weight in a sportbike? Most others would probably be appalled at the idea of a straight weight in a high-revving sportbike.
If it were my bike, and i were going to go straight weight, I'd put a 30 in it, not a 40. If my bike were spec'd for a 40, I'd still put a 30 in it, because the manufacturer surely knows the oil will shear, so they spec a slightly thicker oil than required. That's just my own theory...
This is true, but my bike calls for either a 10W-40 or 20W-50 so running a 40 weight should not be a problem. I always give my bike at least one minute of warm up time before I hit the road and at least 5 minutes when it is below 65 degrees. My only concerns are the cold starts, so what would be the lowest temp I could go when using straight 40? Would there be any other concerns I should be aware of when using a straight weight in a sportbike? Most others would probably be appalled at the idea of a straight weight in a high-revving sportbike.
My bike takes about 3.8 quarts with the filter. What if I was to do 1 quart 15W-40 and 2.8 quarts of straight 40 weight oil or 3 quarts of straight 40 and 0.8 of 15W-40? This might help me with the "colder starts" and reduce warmup time just a little bit? Maybe that little bit of VI would be a good thing? What happen if I do that mix, or would it be better to only use straight weight oil?
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
After reading this thread, I started thinking about how my Honda CBR600F1 would react if I started using a straight 40 weight oil? Reson for this thought is becuase the majority of UOAs I read from the motorcycle UOA section all shear out of grade very fast. My bike is only ridden in the spring/summer/fall months and the coldest start it may ever see is 55-60 degrees F. I wonder if a straight 40 weight will hold up well to a transmission that is capable of spinning 12,000+ RPMs? Would there be any reasons not to run a single weight oil in a 4 cylinder sportbike?
The multi-grades shear down quickly presumably because of the meshing gears. Mono-grade oil doesn't have any VII polymers to shear, so it stays in grade. Mono-grades provide better operating temperature lubrication since there's no VII polymer taking the place of oil.
Only downside to mono-grade oils is cylinder wall lubrication immediatly following a cold start. Cylinder walls depend on throw-off from the connecting rod bearings. While the oil's cold or cool, not as much is thrown to the cylinder walls, BUT, that which is thrown is a thicker film so there's some compensation. Keeping rpm's down for the first several minutes of operation are key to minimizing wear at start-up.
Cams LOVE thick oil, the thicker the better. The rod bearings will retain enough oil regardless of viscosity that cold starts are not an issue for the rod bearings. It's when everything's heated up that the thicker oil provides a better film of metal protecting oil.
To your specific question, if you're riding every day (lots of cold starts), and presumably don't ride all that far, using a SAE-30 in your temperatures would probably be better. Also, since your engine spins faster, you'll get better hydrodynamic lubrication from SAE-30 in your engine than I would in mine with a SAE-30. If your temps aren't well into the 90's during your riding season, use SAE-30.
My temps are much the same, but I stick use the SAE-40 for it's superior high temp lubrication and over-do the whole thing by pre-heating the engine with a 100-watt light bulb overnight before I take it out for a ride since I seldom ride more than once a week, and always ride a minimum of 120 miles when I do.
Another aside on SAE-30. I use 10W-30 in my car in the winter, then switch to SAE-30 in the warmer months. The engine will eat 1 to 1-1/2 quarts between 7500-mile OCI but will consume less than 1/2 quart when using the SAE-30 even in the hotter weather.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
After reading this thread, I started thinking about how my Honda CBR600F1 would react if I started using a straight 40 weight oil? Reson for this thought is becuase the majority of UOAs I read from the motorcycle UOA section all shear out of grade very fast. My bike is only ridden in the spring/summer/fall months and the coldest start it may ever see is 55-60 degrees F. I wonder if a straight 40 weight will hold up well to a transmission that is capable of spinning 12,000+ RPMs? Would there be any reasons not to run a single weight oil in a 4 cylinder sportbike?
The multi-grades shear down quickly presumably because of the meshing gears. Mono-grade oil doesn't have any VII polymers to shear, so it stays in grade. Mono-grades provide better operating temperature lubrication since there's no VII polymer taking the place of oil.
Only downside to mono-grade oils is cylinder wall lubrication immediatly following a cold start. Cylinder walls depend on throw-off from the connecting rod bearings. While the oil's cold or cool, not as much is thrown to the cylinder walls, BUT, that which is thrown is a thicker film so there's some compensation. Keeping rpm's down for the first several minutes of operation are key to minimizing wear at start-up.
Cams LOVE thick oil, the thicker the better. The rod bearings will retain enough oil regardless of viscosity that cold starts are not an issue for the rod bearings. It's when everything's heated up that the thicker oil provides a better film of metal protecting oil.
To your specific question, if you're riding every day (lots of cold starts), and presumably don't ride all that far, using a SAE-30 in your temperatures would probably be better. Also, since your engine spins faster, you'll get better hydrodynamic lubrication from SAE-30 in your engine than I would in mine with a SAE-30. If your temps aren't well into the 90's during your riding season, use SAE-30.
My temps are much the same, but I stick use the SAE-40 for it's superior high temp lubrication and over-do the whole thing by pre-heating the engine with a 100-watt light bulb overnight before I take it out for a ride since I seldom ride more than once a week, and always ride a minimum of 120 miles when I do.
Another aside on SAE-30. I use 10W-30 in my car in the winter, then switch to SAE-30 in the warmer months. The engine will eat 1 to 1-1/2 quarts between 7500-mile OCI but will consume less than 1/2 quart when using the SAE-30 even in the hotter weather.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
My bike takes about 3.8 quarts with the filter. What if I was to do 1 quart 15W-40 and 2.8 quarts of straight 40 weight oil or 3 quarts of straight 40 and 0.8 of 15W-40? This might help me with the "colder starts" and reduce warmup time just a little bit? Maybe that little bit of VI would be a good thing? What happen if I do that mix, or would it be better to only use straight weight oil?
With either mix you proposed, you'd get most of the protection the SAE-40's able to provide, but you wouldn't realize much multi-grade cold start benefit with only 25% of the oil being multi-grade. Sorta like - don't bother.
Read my previous post. Unless your daytime temperatures are getting into the 90's, because of the higher rpm's you'd probably be just as well off with SAE-30 and wouldn't have to agonize so much over your cold starts.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
My bike takes about 3.8 quarts with the filter. What if I was to do 1 quart 15W-40 and 2.8 quarts of straight 40 weight oil or 3 quarts of straight 40 and 0.8 of 15W-40? This might help me with the "colder starts" and reduce warmup time just a little bit? Maybe that little bit of VI would be a good thing? What happen if I do that mix, or would it be better to only use straight weight oil?
With either mix you proposed, you'd get most of the protection the SAE-40's able to provide, but you wouldn't realize much multi-grade cold start benefit with only 25% of the oil being multi-grade. Sorta like - don't bother.
Read my previous post. Unless your daytime temperatures are getting into the 90's, because of the higher rpm's you'd probably be just as well off with SAE-30 and wouldn't have to agonize so much over your cold starts.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
Originally Posted By: Lost1
That's a good engine on that bike [Intruder 1400]. I had a '91 1400 Intruder that I rode (hard) for 4 years in the south Florida heat and it never gave me a minute's trouble. I used Pennzoil or Valvoline dino 20W-50 (whichever was on sale) on 3000 mile OCI's and never had a single problem in almost 40,000 miles. It ran hot as Hades as it was air/oil cooled and was jetted lean to comply with EPA regs, but it was reliable and strong.
It's almost impossible to hurt that engine since it's under carbureted. No way to over-rev it or over-power it. It's hard to beat stoplight-to-stoplight, but ya better get it over with within a few hundred yards.
Regards, GAry in Sandy Eggo
That's a good engine on that bike [Intruder 1400]. I had a '91 1400 Intruder that I rode (hard) for 4 years in the south Florida heat and it never gave me a minute's trouble. I used Pennzoil or Valvoline dino 20W-50 (whichever was on sale) on 3000 mile OCI's and never had a single problem in almost 40,000 miles. It ran hot as Hades as it was air/oil cooled and was jetted lean to comply with EPA regs, but it was reliable and strong.
It's almost impossible to hurt that engine since it's under carbureted. No way to over-rev it or over-power it. It's hard to beat stoplight-to-stoplight, but ya better get it over with within a few hundred yards.
Regards, GAry in Sandy Eggo
Using SAE 30 seems as if it would be to thin in my opinion but I'm not really an expert in this kind of area. Do you think I should mix more 15W-40 with the straight weight or would a SAE30 be provide adequate lubrication?
Originally Posted By: muffinstew
Using SAE 30 seems as if it would be too thin in my opinion but I'm not really an expert in this kind of area. Do you think I should mix more 15W-40 with the straight weight or would a SAE30 be provide adequate lubrication?
A higher revving bike requires less viscosity in the journal bearings than does a larger bore, slower turning engine. That is why I said you'd probably be OK with SAE-30. SAE-40 isn't going to hurt your bike though.
Regarding too thin, most 5W-xx, 10W-xx or 15W-xx will shear to less than SAE-30 at operating temperatures in less than 500 miles. Degraded shifting is the most common indicator of significant viscosity loss.
Mixing in a multi-grade dilutes the benefits of a mono-grade oil. Go back and re-read my lengthier post in this regard. It addresses most of the considerations you should take into account.
Using SAE 30 seems as if it would be too thin in my opinion but I'm not really an expert in this kind of area. Do you think I should mix more 15W-40 with the straight weight or would a SAE30 be provide adequate lubrication?
A higher revving bike requires less viscosity in the journal bearings than does a larger bore, slower turning engine. That is why I said you'd probably be OK with SAE-30. SAE-40 isn't going to hurt your bike though.
Regarding too thin, most 5W-xx, 10W-xx or 15W-xx will shear to less than SAE-30 at operating temperatures in less than 500 miles. Degraded shifting is the most common indicator of significant viscosity loss.
Mixing in a multi-grade dilutes the benefits of a mono-grade oil. Go back and re-read my lengthier post in this regard. It addresses most of the considerations you should take into account.
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