Glazed walls
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Well, what is the substance that is representative of "glaze" in a cylinder of a ICE? I know castor oil will glaze a cylinder as I once tried some 2-cycle model engine fuel from my RC airplane in the 2-cycle lawn mower - never ran better for than that one tank full. Went back to regular mix, and boy did things become hard to start, and the float was off due to the cork taking on the castor oil. Eventually bought a new mower as it was just seeming to be time anyway - never did tell my father what was up.
How might a little seafoam soak work - it seemed to help in the engine mentioned above now that I have modified it to function as a 50-60psi air compressor in the basement shop using a replaced/old 1/3 hp motor from the furnace's air handler.
I'm sure others more in the know will better lead you, but try to list more specifics as for the type of engine, lubricants and fuels used to perhaps better land at a probable composition of the glazing in question.
Take care and happy holidays.
How might a little seafoam soak work - it seemed to help in the engine mentioned above now that I have modified it to function as a 50-60psi air compressor in the basement shop using a replaced/old 1/3 hp motor from the furnace's air handler.
I'm sure others more in the know will better lead you, but try to list more specifics as for the type of engine, lubricants and fuels used to perhaps better land at a probable composition of the glazing in question.
Take care and happy holidays.
Glazed cylinder walls is what you mean? Is this a used engine or reciently rebuilt? We need more information to really help.
try bonami powder for a change (lol! Just kidding!)
No, if you cylinder walls aren't machined/honed properly or even deglazed properly to begin with, nothing you can do afterwards (assuming the engine is the one you've been referring to as a bad oil burner of some sort).
Needa take apart your engine and then deglaze the cylinder walls. That's the ONLY PROPER WAY to do it.
Additives for making your muffler sounds louder or deglaze your cylinders? Never heard of it in my automech career.
No, if you cylinder walls aren't machined/honed properly or even deglazed properly to begin with, nothing you can do afterwards (assuming the engine is the one you've been referring to as a bad oil burner of some sort).
Needa take apart your engine and then deglaze the cylinder walls. That's the ONLY PROPER WAY to do it.
Additives for making your muffler sounds louder or deglaze your cylinders? Never heard of it in my automech career.
This is a rebuilt engine and after 750 miles its still using oil. Reference: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1047991#Post1047991
My opinions still hold in this case.
Good luck!
Q.
Good luck!
Q.
Glazed cylinder walls are not coated with ant substance, but have the cross hatch machining worn down smooth.
But it is impossible to do this in 750 miles. Most engines at 100,000 miles with less then normal care have decent cross hatch in them.
I think you are stating a wrong reason for a problem.
Proper rings, piston clearance, and cross hatch are needed for long term cylinder performance. This means new pistons and rings, and a good bore and proper final finish on it. Factories are very good at this nowadays. Aftermarket usually can't come close [of course some can].
It can take a while for rings to seat, and you may need another 500+ miles of aggressive driving to do this.
But it is impossible to do this in 750 miles. Most engines at 100,000 miles with less then normal care have decent cross hatch in them.
I think you are stating a wrong reason for a problem.
Proper rings, piston clearance, and cross hatch are needed for long term cylinder performance. This means new pistons and rings, and a good bore and proper final finish on it. Factories are very good at this nowadays. Aftermarket usually can't come close [of course some can].
It can take a while for rings to seat, and you may need another 500+ miles of aggressive driving to do this.
Quote:
Glazed cylinder walls are not coated with ant substance, but have the cross hatch machining worn down smooth.
mechtech2, if you Google "glazed cylinder walls", nearly everyone refers to glazing as a "thin film of oxidized oil" on the cylinder that causes the rings to skate across the surface, making it impossible to mate or break in.
Two causes listed for the glazing include running the engine too gently during break in and/or over heating it, thus oxidizing the oil.
I would think that a shop rebuilt engine would not be the same as a factory new engine regarding break in. As stated above, the fault might be in a bad honing job - wrong angle, wrong grit, etc..
While all internet articles say mechanical deglazing the cylinder is the only real fix, one article said alcohol might remove the "glaze". I would think 750 miles is not nearly enough to evaluate the engine yet....but what do I know.
Disclaimer: I have no practical experience with this stuff. Just passing on internet "never wrong" info!
Don't flame the messenger, please.
Glazed cylinder walls are not coated with ant substance, but have the cross hatch machining worn down smooth.
mechtech2, if you Google "glazed cylinder walls", nearly everyone refers to glazing as a "thin film of oxidized oil" on the cylinder that causes the rings to skate across the surface, making it impossible to mate or break in.
Two causes listed for the glazing include running the engine too gently during break in and/or over heating it, thus oxidizing the oil.
I would think that a shop rebuilt engine would not be the same as a factory new engine regarding break in. As stated above, the fault might be in a bad honing job - wrong angle, wrong grit, etc..
While all internet articles say mechanical deglazing the cylinder is the only real fix, one article said alcohol might remove the "glaze". I would think 750 miles is not nearly enough to evaluate the engine yet....but what do I know.
Disclaimer: I have no practical experience with this stuff. Just passing on internet "never wrong" info!
Don't flame the messenger, please.
Castrol GTX was renowned for glazing engines in the 70s here.
People who installed GTX in the break-in period and babied their car had horrid blowby and oil consumption.
This product is well known in Oz (for diesels).
http://www.costeffective.com.au/prod01.htm
Many people have used the bon-ami technique also - I'm not advocating it on a rebuild, although one engine rebuilding company in Oz did use it as a first pass on returned engines.
People who installed GTX in the break-in period and babied their car had horrid blowby and oil consumption.
This product is well known in Oz (for diesels).
http://www.costeffective.com.au/prod01.htm
Many people have used the bon-ami technique also - I'm not advocating it on a rebuild, although one engine rebuilding company in Oz did use it as a first pass on returned engines.
Since it decokes ring packs and removes sludge so well. I wonder if ARX will also deglaze cylinder walls. The stuff definitely decarbonizes rings extremely well. I don't know what the chemical structure of that glaze really is though. I do know that my 3.0 Mitsubishi, with 122K miles on it, is like a new engine after just the ARX clean phase alone however.
I would first try some 10 second wot runs in a higher gear (rpms not over 3,500 or so). Let the engine cool for a few minutes between run. If this don't work the Bonami? As stated Bonami is an old time cure for glazed walls. A hand full sucked into the intake while at fast idle was the technique.
I was told by someone more knowledgeable, that glazed cylinders has nothing to do with any sort of coating, and so ARX is not going to do anything for it.
Sorry I misspoke earlier.
Sorry I misspoke earlier.
Don't apologize so quickly. Again, googling cylinder wall glazing, I came up with:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?Breaking in a Diesel Engine
"The burned oil will leave a hard, enamel like residue on the cylinder wall, commonly known as oil glazing. Once this glaze builds up, the only repair is a labor-intensive process that requires disassembling the engine and re-honing the effected cylinders. Oil glazing is a problem because it is typically not distributed evenly in the cylinder.... glaze has very smooth and friction free properties that do not allow it to be scraped away by the rings. This inhibits further metal-to-metal wear between the cylinder wall and rings, preventing further mating of ring and cylinder.
And this:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm
"Cylinder-wall glazing is not a deposit left on the cylinder wall, but rather a displacement of cylinder-wall metal. This happens when the high spots of the cylinder wall crosshatch are not cut or worn off by the piston rings, but rather rolled over into the valleys or grooves of the crosshatch. This leaves a surface that oil adheres to poorly, against which the rings cannot seal well. Compression is lost and oil consumed, and the only cure is to tear down the engine to physically restore the cylinder-wall finish by honing."
So, apparently, there are two types of glazing that can occur. Chemical/oxidized oil glazing and mechanical/metal glazing.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?Breaking in a Diesel Engine
"The burned oil will leave a hard, enamel like residue on the cylinder wall, commonly known as oil glazing. Once this glaze builds up, the only repair is a labor-intensive process that requires disassembling the engine and re-honing the effected cylinders. Oil glazing is a problem because it is typically not distributed evenly in the cylinder.... glaze has very smooth and friction free properties that do not allow it to be scraped away by the rings. This inhibits further metal-to-metal wear between the cylinder wall and rings, preventing further mating of ring and cylinder.
And this:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm
"Cylinder-wall glazing is not a deposit left on the cylinder wall, but rather a displacement of cylinder-wall metal. This happens when the high spots of the cylinder wall crosshatch are not cut or worn off by the piston rings, but rather rolled over into the valleys or grooves of the crosshatch. This leaves a surface that oil adheres to poorly, against which the rings cannot seal well. Compression is lost and oil consumed, and the only cure is to tear down the engine to physically restore the cylinder-wall finish by honing."
So, apparently, there are two types of glazing that can occur. Chemical/oxidized oil glazing and mechanical/metal glazing.
What about moly? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/blowby.html
Two kinds of glazing sounds plausible. I really don't know what to think now. I will keep an open mind about it.
and where can you get moly in a readily usable form?
Originally Posted By: Oilgal
and where can you get moly in a readily usable form?
There is already some moly in some oil. Especialy diesel oils.
you need the right type of moly, otherwise the oil filter will catch it.
You could also try:
MOS2 ANTI-FRICTION
http://www.lubromoly.com/web/lmhomeus.nsf/pages/index_produkte
and where can you get moly in a readily usable form?
There is already some moly in some oil. Especialy diesel oils.
you need the right type of moly, otherwise the oil filter will catch it.
You could also try:
MOS2 ANTI-FRICTION
http://www.lubromoly.com/web/lmhomeus.nsf/pages/index_produkte
No offense intended, but their website is a total mess, and that turns me off.
Not to sound like an arrogant poster but you still not getting it, do you? (RE: vacuum_6)
-The proper technical description RE: glazed cylinder walls has to do with the proper machining texture of the wall in preparation for new piston rings to bed in and conform themselves comfortably, which subsequently forms a proper sealing surface(between the rings and the cylinder walls) and texture (for oil film retention and such) for proper oil film retention, etc..
-yes, while it is indeed true that during an engine rebuild, there's likeliness of moly additives in the oil (due to engine assembly lube, moly coated rings for quick seating, or mixed in with cam lube, etc.), truth is, these minute amount of moly isn't enough to cause any significant hindrance to the breaking in of the rings and the properly machined (honed) cylinder walls to cause any further glazing down the road (I have yet to come across 1 single instance of such during my engine rebuild/blueprinting days). Don't believe me? Ask any engine builders/rebuilders about this part then and you'll understand.
- Only an improperly machined (cross-hatched) cylinder wall(s), improperly installed oil control rings, excessive oil pressure (too high of the oil pressure release spring rate),etc. would have caused your "so-called" glazing (or subsequently excessive consumption of motor oil during your 750miles run). Better yet: an engine rebuild job where the guy forgot to hone/deglaze the cylinder walls properly and I've seen this many times before.
Yes, I agree with what doityourself's posting RE: 2 types of glazing so far, the likeliness of observation #1 is fairly remote, IMHO and then only time I've heard this happening was guys using non-detergent SAE 30 (like API SA) on a high powered Vee 8 engine breakin. Any decent high detergent recent API release motor oil shall have the ability to combat the forming of hard carbon deposits on the cylinder walls very nicely and a wet/dry compression test (assuming that the oil control rings are conforming well to the walls with proper tension for oil scraping) shall give you some tell-tale signs. But then again, there's nothing one can be stop from using API SA grade oil during high-power engine break in due to sheer arrogance though...for I've seen this happening with my very own eyes before.
IMHO observation #2 from doitmyself is likely the culprit.
Again, I simply cannot emphasize enough that this is a mechanical issue and you need to look toward that direction(even if it calls for tearing down the engine for inspection). Don't ever think that miracle-in-a-can will help you in this case for afterall, your engine is considered "new" in this case and not worn.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
-The proper technical description RE: glazed cylinder walls has to do with the proper machining texture of the wall in preparation for new piston rings to bed in and conform themselves comfortably, which subsequently forms a proper sealing surface(between the rings and the cylinder walls) and texture (for oil film retention and such) for proper oil film retention, etc..
-yes, while it is indeed true that during an engine rebuild, there's likeliness of moly additives in the oil (due to engine assembly lube, moly coated rings for quick seating, or mixed in with cam lube, etc.), truth is, these minute amount of moly isn't enough to cause any significant hindrance to the breaking in of the rings and the properly machined (honed) cylinder walls to cause any further glazing down the road (I have yet to come across 1 single instance of such during my engine rebuild/blueprinting days). Don't believe me? Ask any engine builders/rebuilders about this part then and you'll understand.
- Only an improperly machined (cross-hatched) cylinder wall(s), improperly installed oil control rings, excessive oil pressure (too high of the oil pressure release spring rate),etc. would have caused your "so-called" glazing (or subsequently excessive consumption of motor oil during your 750miles run). Better yet: an engine rebuild job where the guy forgot to hone/deglaze the cylinder walls properly and I've seen this many times before.
Yes, I agree with what doityourself's posting RE: 2 types of glazing so far, the likeliness of observation #1 is fairly remote, IMHO and then only time I've heard this happening was guys using non-detergent SAE 30 (like API SA) on a high powered Vee 8 engine breakin. Any decent high detergent recent API release motor oil shall have the ability to combat the forming of hard carbon deposits on the cylinder walls very nicely and a wet/dry compression test (assuming that the oil control rings are conforming well to the walls with proper tension for oil scraping) shall give you some tell-tale signs. But then again, there's nothing one can be stop from using API SA grade oil during high-power engine break in due to sheer arrogance though...for I've seen this happening with my very own eyes before.
IMHO observation #2 from doitmyself is likely the culprit.
Again, I simply cannot emphasize enough that this is a mechanical issue and you need to look toward that direction(even if it calls for tearing down the engine for inspection). Don't ever think that miracle-in-a-can will help you in this case for afterall, your engine is considered "new" in this case and not worn.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
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