Were going back to Regular Diesel at work

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Got the word today that KDOT, the agency I work for is going back to regular old diesel from the biodiesel blend. Was told that the blend we are using only has a shelf life of 30 days and after that acids start to form in the fuel. As proof I was told that equipment that has been sitting for a length of time are having fuel related issues with the biodiesel. Mainly fuel delivery systems are failing.
 
BD is biodegradable, which is one of it's advantages.

Normal diesel is dosed up with stuff to aid shelf life (mainly bugs and water).

Is the BD just "as refined", or additised ?

Might be some (or a little, or none) difference.
 
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Mainly fuel delivery systems are failing.




Heard something about biofuel eating rubber components unless they were made from FKM (fluoro rubber) like Viton.
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Ha! The problem is that you live in Lansing. We too (Lansing, Michigan) had variable results last winter with bio-fuel. Some companies had huge winter problems (trash haulers) while the guy down the street had none.

I've read that problems with the bio component, ultra low sulfer chemistry, and correct additive package are to blame.

Storing bio in an old gunked up regular diesel tank also loosens all the crud up...change them filters often.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Ha! The problem is that you live in Lansing. We too (Lansing, Michigan) had variable results last winter with bio-fuel. Some companies had huge winter problems (trash haulers) while the guy down the street had none.

I've read that problems with the bio component, ultra low sulfer chemistry, and correct additive package are to blame.

Storing bio in an old gunked up regular diesel tank also loosens all the crud up...change them filters often.


I worked at the motor pool on a USMC installation for over 6 years. Biodesel was a mandate for us. I have never seen a fuel tank get gunked up by real diesel fuel. I have seen the build up that results from using biodiesel, we were contantly having to rebuild injector pumps and have tanks cleaned out. The more a truck was used the less problems we would have, but I have know idea where the idea that biodiesel cleans and breaks up old fuel system gunk from diesel. The gunk that biodiesel leaves behind is almost like tar. The only thing I have seen easily remove that stuff is canned carb cleaner. We have had trucks that have never had real diesel run in them have the same problems. So it is not biodiesel cleaning out the regular diesel gunk. It is biodiesel turning into gunk.
 
B5 clogs up the 7 micron fuel filter element in my Davco in 1000 gallons of fuel. B20 in about 400 gallons. Thats despite running it for months. Im not saying all biodiesel will do it but the [censored] we are getting locally leaves much to be desired.

If I change to straight diesel from another supplier the level in the housing wont even change in 3000 gallons.
 
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Bureaucrats who never get their hands dirty ALWAYS know things the guys keeping the stuff running don't. Usually what they "know" comes out of a "PC" handbook.
 
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Problem is really "biodiesel" "producers" messing up.

It's easy to make the stuff for home consumption. It's harder to make well for home consumption. It's harder still to make the stuff from waste, in good quality for home consumption.

It's stupid to try to step up to try to make money out of "quality" biodiesel, from waste products, from what was a backyard/yardblock operation.

To meet the "standards", you need to use virtually virgin soybean oil in the US, or Canola in Oz, not donut king grease.
 
What I want to know is if any biodeisel really cleans as well as so many people say, or are they just repeating what they have heard. I only have experience with one supplier and I can tell you the fuel we had was terrible. So is there actually good biodeisel out there? I have had a few people tell me I was wrong that biodeisel was not causing fuel system problems that it cleaned up what real deisel left behind. What I don't know is if these people have any real experience with biodeisel or are they just repeating what they have heard.
 
Biodiesel is an ester, and as such can clean (think auto-rx etc.)

But if made poorly, can carry with it glycerines and other junk that can make a mess.
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
The school bus system here suffered some type of algae, or fungus problem that caused them to cancel school. None of the busses would start.


Wonder who paid for all the fuel system cleanup and flushing?
 
Wonder if this one runs biodiesel? (Note the 102 RPM!!)

The world's largest diesel engine is currently a Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96-C Common Rail marine diesel of about 84,420 kW (113,210 hp) @ 102 rpm[4] output.[5]
 
Bio-diesel although a renewable sourced fuel is actually a very dirty fuel from the the equipment perspective.

It's good idea not yet really ready for the commercial world.

A ton of companies in Canada dumped the use of it this year. You would hard pressed to find a gas station selling it. The companies selling it claim it as such an environmental product. Not really environmental when a companies need to send trucks to the scrap yard.

I few things you may or may not about Bio-diesel.

1) Manufactures dump tons of anti-oxidants to keep it from going bad but these also contribute to depositing.

2) It can easily separate out of diesel during cold drops, Not talking arctic temps either. This makes it susceptible to freezing and clogging filters to everything else. Not recommended for cold climates.

3) Is especially hard on high pressure injector systems used on post 2007 road truck and European diesel cars. It is also known to cause irregular spray patterns. Pushing a milkshake through a coffee straw.

4) It burns much slower than regular diesel. The common thought is that Bio-Diesel has less energy than the mineral sourced. Not true at all, I've measured similar energy releases in the lab within 2-5%. The real reason bio-diesel runs less mileage is that 10-15% is still burning when the exhaust valve opens.

6) Running Bio-diesel in air cooled engines show 5% increase in head and exhaust temps!

5) Its production is highly unregulated. It full of low energy saturated bonds which should be removed before the process. But keeping the pork fat in during production raises profits. Saturated bonds just like your arteries leave behind deposits. These deposits are prone to becoming hard plaque and can start jamming up your piston rings. Not a great idea for an engine that relies on compression to work.

6) I've tested Bio-diesel and found tons of Hydoroxyl groups left in it. ie not a good idea to run drain cleaner through your bread winner. Again the bathtub production shows itself.

7) the lubricity and actual wear reduction is still yet to be proven. Much of testing is done under perfect ideal conditions but no one is yet to side by side wear testing and show documented wear reduction. Plus whats the point of trying to lubricate a fuel pump when is will probably corrode the seals instead.

We striped down a relatively new truck running B5 and you could use a putty knife to clean the combustion chamber. It has its place in protected lands but I think it causing more damage than good outside of that.
 
Originally Posted By: Gene K
B5 clogs up the 7 micron fuel filter element in my Davco in 1000 gallons of fuel. B20 in about 400 gallons. Thats despite running it for months. Im not saying all biodiesel will do it but the [censored] we are getting locally leaves much to be desired.

If I change to straight diesel from another supplier the level in the housing wont even change in 3000 gallons.


Wow. Bad supplier. I regularly use B10 - B15, and have for several years, and use a Davco 7 micron filter (Donaldson P550463), and I replace them at 40,000 miles and it still has to life left as fuel is still not quite to top. This on a Detroit S60.
 
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