Studs on winter tires

[1sttruck]

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200124/000020012401A0928142.php

Evaluation of the Ten Years Since Studded Tire's Ban and Future Issues.

..............The results show that the regulation of studded tires has eliminated dust pollution by studded tires and has decreased pavement abrasion. However, negative effects also have arisen: the emergence of extremely slippery icy road surfaces, an increase in winter-specific traffic accidents (e.g., skid accidents), a worsening of winter traffic phenomena and increase of travel cost, those are imposing large burdens on road users. Along with this, the amounts of anti-freezing agents and abrasives applied by road administrators have been rising sharply..........

http://www.engr.uaa.alaska.edu/research/upload/StuddedTiresInAlaska.pdf

5.6 Conclusions and Recommendations
The consensus of these studies is that studded tires do improve traffic safety in winter driving
conditions.....For studies and economic analyses performed more recently, accident costs are usually the
overwhelming factor in the sum of economic effects. Pavement wear caused by studs is very
expensive as well. However, when studded tires are prohibited the savings in pavement repair
may be entirely offset by the increased costs of surface applications. This was true on Hokkaido
where the cost of surface applications was greater than the cost of pavement repair.

 

[D-Roc]

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http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200124/000020012401A0928142.php

Evaluation of the Ten Years Since Studded Tire's Ban and Future Issues.

..............The results show that the regulation of studded tires has eliminated dust pollution by studded tires and has decreased pavement abrasion. However, negative effects also have arisen: the emergence of extremely slippery icy road surfaces, an increase in winter-specific traffic accidents (e.g., skid accidents), a worsening of winter traffic phenomena and increase of travel cost, those are imposing large burdens on road users. Along with this, the amounts of anti-freezing agents and abrasives applied by road administrators have been rising sharply..........

http://www.engr.uaa.alaska.edu/research/upload/StuddedTiresInAlaska.pdf

5.6 Conclusions and Recommendations
The consensus of these studies is that studded tires do improve traffic safety in winter driving
conditions.....For studies and economic analyses performed more recently, accident costs are usually the
overwhelming factor in the sum of economic effects. Pavement wear caused by studs is very
expensive as well. However, when studded tires are prohibited the savings in pavement repair
may be entirely offset by the increased costs of surface applications. This was true on Hokkaido
where the cost of surface applications was greater than the cost of pavement repair.

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That second link looks pretty good- I am going to read over it in length when I have more time. From looking at it quickly it is quite informative.

 

[c502cid]

alreadygone, no doubt you have. But more rocks shoot out from all terrain tires in a day than all studs come out in a year. You have the experience and the knowledge but you are one of the few here that do know how they work. Tire patches fail too if not done right. However, you know that a properly installed stud, and it ain't rocket science to run a stud gun, isn't coming out from a burnout.

 

[rpn453]

Thanks for the links, 1sttruck. There's a lot of info in that Alaskan document, and it definitely supports the use of studs.

Losing a stud is not a common occurence. I've seen it happen once or twice on the vehicles I service. But if you're regularly doing burnouts or hard cornering, you may break the tips of the studs off.

 

[CrazyMike]

Here's a comparison we did back in 2004

http://www.snowtire.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=292


I may not know oil like you guys, but I know tires, heheh.

Studs effecting handling on dry pavement, yes they do, but not in all cases.

Check these guys out

www.nokiantyres.com

I my opinion Nokian produces the best winter tires on the market. If you read some specs closely on some of the specs, they actually produce studded winter tires rated for 190km/h, which is what, 115mph?

The reason they can do this is the technology of the stud base. The studs actually compress into the tire when running pavement or concrete, if it' ice, thy stick out. The eco-stud is awesome, we have 3 years on the wife's Nokians, the stud show no wear at all, nor do the tires.

These guys are the best at winter tires, the difference is awesome.

Conventinal studs, tread depth, stud length, vehicle weight, tire pressure, all play parts in how your vehicle with respond to studs on pavement.

My truck, 6,500lbs, I could hear them, but I couldn't tell they were there, with Nokians anyway. If I did the same thing with a Ford Taurus, ran a generic tire, generic stud, it would be noticable, depending on compound of tire, psi, quality of the road. My first experience with studs was a Sear special, on a F150, ran too low a psi, squirmed like ---- until I could get the pressure up a bit.

We did this tire a few years back

A generic gripper, double studded, a total of 160 studs each. We used a alum-based stud since the carbide tip is a bit taller than steel studs, and the alum wears away quicker exposing a longer stud. These things were insane on glare wet ice, vehicles in the ditch everywhere, I even passed the sand truck, didn't need him for anything.

Last year we did these, Nokian Hak 10's, an older Nokian tire, but much deeper tread, and much skinnier for ground pressure and reduced plowing

I did slightly longer studs than Nokian recommended, extra siping on the center, these ultra skinny tires were incredible. One hand on the wheel, running slush in the bush at 40mph.

Go skinny as you can, stud if allowed, and look at Nokian, they're awesome.

 

[D-Roc]

I tried to get the eco studs- but they have been discontinued at least in Canada for the Hakka LT's in my size.

 

[bluemax1]

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Sorry bluemax, I produce gobs of torque with both my big block chevy trucks and losing studs is not even close to reality. You obviously do not have a clue how a stud is designed, not how it is installed. All you are doing is trying to rationalize your viewpoint with myth. The absolute only way you lose a stud is when the tire is so far worn out there is no rubber to hold it in anymore. As far as tire studies go, like any study considering rubber on the road, dont you think that just for a second that each tire will produce different results, just like in a dry cornering test? If you dont like studded tires, just say so and be done with it but those of us who actually use them know better......

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I've run studded tires in rallying. Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong suit. In ice/snow I've already mentioned that studded tires do provide the best traction available. In mostly snow/ice only, we'ld still have most of the studs at the end, if it was drier and there was bare pavement, gravel/dirt we could lose as many as half the studs after about 40-50+ miles. We could also feel the difference in braking performance on dry pavement with studded or non-studded tires.

Obviously rally driving is a little more aggressive than the average person, but I've seen studded tires with quite a few studs missing from just being daily driven for a season or two. Those are the facts and not myths.

If tire studding has changed substantially in the last few years, then maybe, but there were 2 kinds of studs that I was aware of back then, the kind that installed from the outside of the tire where the studd installing tool basically spread the stud hole and installed a stud that had a flared base that was supposed to hold them in the tire and the 2nd kind was the backyard garage screw-through-the-tire with inner tube type studding. The first kind of studs can pop out, the second kind can't.


Max

 

[alreadygone]

Obviously rally driving is a little more aggressive than the average person, but I've seen studded tires with quite a few studs missing from just being daily driven for a season or two. Those are the facts and not myths.

OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!

What in the world does this have to do with commuters needing to get to work on time?

If you're shedding studs you're doing something dangerous or stupid!

Bob

 

[CrazyMike]

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I tried to get the eco studs- but they have been discontinued at least in Canada for the Hakka LT's in my size.

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The only way we can get eco-studs in the Hak LT's is to either special order direct from Finland, which takes months, or to find a Kal-Tire equipped with the expensive eco-stud gun and eco-studs. My Hak LT's were standard studs were produce here, what I did is use a TSMI #15 instead of the #13 recommended by Nokian.

The #13 protrudes slightly, and you can push in the stud so it retracts in the tire, kind of what the Eco-stud does. But, if you use the #15, even when you push the stud down, you cannot bury the stud competely, the carbide sticks out.

It may effect dry pavement handling on a lighter vehicle, and it sure is noisy, but I noticed nothing with my Crew Cab.

If you have a heavy vehicle, see if you can have this done. Besides custom studding, this is about as good as it gets.

 

[D-Roc]

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I tried to get the eco studs- but they have been discontinued at least in Canada for the Hakka LT's in my size.

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The only way we can get eco-studs in the Hak LT's is to either special order direct from Finland, which takes months, or to find a Kal-Tire equipped with the expensive eco-stud gun and eco-studs. My Hak LT's were standard studs were produce here, what I did is use a TSMI #15 instead of the #13 recommended by Nokian.

The #13 protrudes slightly, and you can push in the stud so it retracts in the tire, kind of what the Eco-stud does. But, if you use the #15, even when you push the stud down, you cannot bury the stud competely, the carbide sticks out.

It may effect dry pavement handling on a lighter vehicle, and it sure is noisy, but I noticed nothing with my Crew Cab.

If you have a heavy vehicle, see if you can have this done. Besides custom studding, this is about as good as it gets.

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I am getting them studded- what is better to use, the 13 or the 15 stud?

 

[D-Roc]

If Nokian recommends a 13 would that not be better overall to use?

 

[CrazyMike]

I've ran the LT's on my truck with both 13's and 15's. I found once the studs settled in the tire very little carbide was exposed. A few years back we had a gross amount of ice/wet ice on the roads

http://hoseclamp.smugmug.com/gallery/1202070#56251614

Studs really came in handy. With 13's I had good grip, but I always thought about getting more stud exposure, more bite.

I did not notice any difference between the two for on road dry conditions, but the 15's were louder. With weight on it, like your diesel, you'll have no problem.

Again, once compressed the carbide is the only part of the stud exposed, you won't be spitting them out.

If your local Kal Tire won't do them, tell them K-39 has done them with 100% success, if you need a reference/name, let me know.

If I was doing a set today, 15's without question.

 

[CrazyMike]

Forgot to add, I compared stud exposure on two other brands the Kal Tire had in the shop, one was the Cooper M/S requiring a #15, another was the generic gripper I posted a pic of earlier, with a #16 stud. Pushing down the stud in both tires, bottomed out, the carbide would be exposed. Only the Nokian you could bury the complete stud in the tire with the recommended stud. The #15's produce the exact exposure of the other brands, so I knew it would be safe. It proved to be safe and work awesome.

 

[D-Roc]

Sounds good. I'll take a look at using the 15's.

 

[Gary Allan]

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D-Roc, it's too bad you couldn't try a season with studded tires. You would never go back,

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I agree. I put them on my mother's cars. Got them dedicated rims. You could go anywhere in her FWD cars. You could be cavalier with studs. Not that you could be ignorant, but you could slap the car around at lower speeds and be confident in handling stopping and whatnot.

I never noticed too much of an issue at higher speeds in dray or wet conditions ..then again, I don't drive like Speed Racer anymore.

 

[D-Roc]

I am having them put on- just trying to decide where. I went to one place and looked at the studs they use and I like them- the other place where I bought the tires says they use Nokian studs. So, any preferences as far as the studs go? Are there differences in studs other than the size?

 

[Maritime Storm]

Read the sidewall, most tires that accept studs list the recommended size on the sidewall.

 

[D-Roc]

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Read the sidewall, most tires that accept studs list the recommended size on the sidewall.

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Not the LT Hakkas- I had to go on to the Nokian site to find the size. But my previous question was in regards to the actual stud. One place has a stud that looks pretty solid, the other one has some that don't look very well made at all- size aside, are all studs the same? Where I bought the tires from they say they use Nokian Studs- not the Eco-Stud though.

 

[CrazyMike]

Nokian has an eco stye stud in all ther applications, whether they are a round first generation carbide, the diamond head, or the newest "claw" carbide eco stud. If the shop has these an they can eco-stud your Hak LT's, I'd go for those. The eco studs last the longest, and Nokian designed the stud with work with that tire, and visa-versa.

If that shop shows you ANYTHING but an eco-stud, they're just generic mass produced studs and the guy is either clueles or BSing you.

The wife's winter tires, Hak SUV's with the round eco-stud, two winter so far and the studs show no wear.

1st choice- eco-stud
2nd- TSMI #15, alum body preffered, steel is fine
3rd- TSMI #13, body doesn't matter.

 

[CrazyMike]

---- there's some nice spelling there allright, LOL!