02 Dodge Cummins, Amsoil 5w-30 HDD, 9,500 miles

[billmac]

This is my 5th oil analysis on this truck which I've owned since new. All of the analysis' have been done by Oil Analyzers Inc. My previous analysis' have been posted on this site. The most notable number on this analysis is the copper amount of 54. Previously, 14 had been the highest number for copper. The analyst indicated on the report that the oil was suitable for continued use and did not mention anything about the copper number. I called OAI and spoke with a tech person regarding my concern. This person told me that my trucks engine had a copper lined lube cooler and that's where this number was coming from. This person also said that OAI/Amsoil did not consider this number to be excessive for my trucks' engine. I asked why the copper number for the previous 4 samples was relatively low and was told that sometimes the sampling method did not obtain a true sample of a particular item. This sounded like ---- to me. I think I will send my used oil samples elsewhere in the future.

OIL AMSOIL
5W-30 HDD
SAMPLE MILES 9,425
VEHICLE MILES 55,422
SAMPLE PERIOD OCT 06-SEP 07
AMBIENT TEMPS 20's-100°
MAKE-UP OIL NONE
IRON 15
CHROMIUM 1
LEAD 11
COPPER 54
TIN 0
ALUMINUM 2
NICKEL 0
SILVER 0
SILICON 5
BORON 1
SODIUM 0
MAGNESIUM 19
CALCIUM 3774
BARIUM 0
PHOSPHORUS 1281
ZINC 1553
MOLYBDENUM 0
TITANIUM 0
VANADIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
FUEL (%VOL) VIS @ 40C, cSt NA
VIC @ 100C, cSt 11.57
WATER 0
SOOT/SOLIDS (% WT) 0.1
COOLANT NO
TBN 9.32
OXID 15
NITR 16
F-SOOT 0.01

 

[D-Roc]

I like the HDD- pretty robust. Your numbers look good for the amount of time you had it in. I just don't like that lead number. Do a couple of shorter runs to monitor that copper.

 

[billmac]

I usually do a sample at 5,000 mile intervals but failed to do so this time around. I wasn't to concerned primarily because my previous 5,000 mile runs on the HDD showed little wear. I did go ahead and changed out the oil shortly after I got the analysis results back.

 

[Pablo]

I'm not sure what to say about the copper level. You doubled your miles (almost) - but the oil was in the engine for nearly a year, so maybe he wasn't full of do-do. 11 ppm of Pb for a year isn't so bad either. But, by all means try a new lab - but for $20-$25, it's hard to expect tons of detailed support like Terry Dyson provides.

I do have a suggestion, to save you some money. I would do the same run with Amsoil ACD 10W-30 HDEO. I'll bet your numbers might even be lower.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

The copper number falls into the abnormal range and should have been flagged by OAI. I would keep an eye on this number and use Terry in the future. Pablo has the right advice and I would use the 30 weight oil or move to the 15-40w.

 

[D-Roc]

Quote:

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I'm not sure what to say about the copper level. You doubled your miles (almost) - but the oil was in the engine for nearly a year, so maybe he wasn't full of do-do. 11 ppm of Pb for a year isn't so bad either. But, by all means try a new lab - but for $20-$25, it's hard to expect tons of detailed support like Terry Dyson provides.

I do have a suggestion, to save you some money. I would do the same run with Amsoil ACD 10W-30 HDEO. I'll bet your numbers might even be lower.

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Hey Pablo, I am curious as to why/how the ACD would provide lower wear results? It is definitely cheaper- HDD is pretty expensive.

 

[Pablo]

Quote:

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Hey Pablo, I am curious as to why/how the ACD would provide lower wear results? It is definitely cheaper- HDD is pretty expensive.

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Please don't construe this as a hit on the current HDD 5W-30. If you need a HDEO in ice trucker land, HDD is your huckleberry. It has the goods.

The OP lives in Texas. There is no need for a 5W. He doesn't do super long OCI's. That alone is a good reason. But ACD will produce lower wear for three reasons, 1) the additive pack, despite written comments from Amsoil and posters here alike is just as strong as HDD. (Words like "beefy" and "robust" mean little) . 2) More importantly ACD SAE 30 does NOT contain VII's. That alone will just produce lower wear because no silly thickeners or PPA's to get in the way of the oil doing the job. 3) Proof - UOA's with ACD pretty much always look great in gas or diesel engines. Killer TBN retention!! HDD? Not so much.

The fact that a gallon of ACD can be had for $20.80 as a PC is just Birthday Gravy. HDD is $29.35 gallon for PC, which is still not bad for you folks north of 50° Lat (or south of 50° downunder )

 

[D-Roc]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Hey Pablo, I am curious as to why/how the ACD would provide lower wear results? It is definitely cheaper- HDD is pretty expensive.

---

Please don't construe this as a hit on the current HDD 5W-30. If you need a HDEO in ice trucker land, HDD is your huckleberry. It has the goods.

The OP lives in Texas. There is no need for a 5W. He doesn't do super long OCI's. That alone is a good reason. But ACD will produce lower wear for three reasons, 1) the additive pack, despite written comments from Amsoil and posters here alike is just as strong as HDD. (Words like "beefy" and "robust" mean little) . 2) More importantly ACD SAE 30 does NOT contain VII's. That alone will just produce lower wear because no silly thickeners or PPA's to get in the way of the oil doing the job. 3) Proof - UOA's with ACD pretty much always look great in gas or diesel engines. Killer TBN retention!! HDD? Not so much.

The fact that a gallon of ACD can be had for $20.80 as a PC is just Birthday Gravy. HDD is $29.35 gallon for PC, which is still not bad for you folks north of 50° Lat (or south of 50° downunder )

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Good points. I kind of wish Amsoil would produce something like the ACD- but for 40 weight applications. I would probably use it im my Cummins during the warmer months where I live. (April- October)
Thanks

 

[Harley Anderson]

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Good points. I kind of wish Amsoil would produce something like the ACD- but for 40 weight applications. I would probably use it im my Cummins during the warmer months where I live. (April- October)
Thanks

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Amsoil has the AMO 10w40 which is a certified ci-4+ oil. Its properties are almost the same as AME 15w40, a little thinner at 40 degress C. AME stills looks like the best oil to me when considering all the factors, price, pour point, wear numbers, and longevity. I use ACD in all of my small engines.

 

[billmac]

Thanks for all of the replies. The only problem that I had with this analysis is OAI's response to my query about the high copper level. If a particular sampling method, in this case thru the oil dip stick tube, does not collect a representative sample of the wear metals in the engine then how can you place any reliance on the numbers in the analysts' report? For example, I have run the Amsoil AME product for 7,500 miles in this engine and the copper level was 14 on the analysis report. All of the other wear metals were generally the same or higher than the HDD on it's 9,500 mile sample report. I realize the I'm not getting a "Dyson" analysis for $20-$25 but at least I could get an explanation that makes sense to me.

As mentioned above, I have used the Amsoil AME product in this engine as well as the HDD product. In most all of the samples, wear numbers were the same or slightly better for the HDD oil. When I changed the oil this last time, I went with some Delvac 1 that I had purchased from a friend of mine awhile back. First time for this oil so we will see how it compares. When I buy oil from Amsoil again, I might try the ACD. Thanks again for all of the responses.

 

[Steve S]

Seems you are wasting you $$$ by changing the oil so soon . There is really no advantage in syn $$$ oils especially if you change them out so soon , the tbn is 9.32 .Try Delo or Rotella 15w/40 or the 5w/40 rotella syn ,Shaeffers seem to be a killer oil in regular or syn .

 

[D-Roc]

What does everyone think in regards to high rpm's with the HDD (30 weight when a 40 is called for). Would there be a HP gain (lower viscosity), or a loss (from blowby)?

 

[Steve S]

I would guess that a certain viscosity is recommended for certain temperatures for a reason .My wife has a powerstroke and from 15f on up recommends 15w/40 and that is what I use. I tried a couple of 3 runs with 5w/40 syn oil though. I did not notice any mpg increase and my wife always calculates the mpg per fillup by the gallons and miles per fillup.