ZDDP level of Rotella CK4?

[jeff78]

I remember years ago when this bike was sold as the Suzuki Savage (sic)....

A 30hp air cooled single...you're probably close to or at full throttle a lot of the time, I'd probably try Rotella T4 15W-40 or one of the Valvoline motorcycle oils first to see how the bike likes it. If you're not too picky about JASO MA/MA2 (I'm not), VR1 would be a very good choice.

If you don't mind spending $15/qt, go Red Line and call it a day. At the very least you could likely extend your oil change intervals.

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
CK4 is basically better than CJ4 as long as the oil is not "dual rated" for diesel and gasoline.

It's the oils that are CK4/SN that have weaker additive packages because the SN spec limits ZDDP levels. If you can find any old CJ4/SM stuff then it'll be stout and ok to use.

Also be wary of oils that are JASO MA2 as this spec also limits ZDDP.

JASO MA is fine though.


Huh? I plan on running it in a motorcycle. A motorcycle that requires JASO MA. Shell Rotella is the only heavy duty engine oil that is advertised JASO MA. Care to elaborate on your post as it relates to the topic at hand? Shell Rotella is also JASO MA2.


Yes everything I said had to do with the fact that you are running it in a motorcycle.

Since you came here to ask about ZDDP levels, I felt it necessary to mention that the "JASO MA2" specification requires LESS Zinc/Phos than the "JASO MA" spec. They are 2 completely different specifications even though the oil companies imply their products meet both specs.

And keep in mind that Rotella is only "JASO MA/MA2" certified because they (Shell) have self certified it as such. The JASO organization has not listed Shell Rotella on its official list of MA/MA2 oils.

 

[SuperSalad]

Let's not ignore the fact that if it has phosphorus levels over 1200 ppm it cannot qualify as a JASO rated oil. The specification is from 800 to 1200 ppm for any JASO rated oil.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
And keep in mind that Rotella is only "JASO MA/MA2" certified because they (Shell) have self certified it as such. The JASO organization has not listed Shell Rotella on its official list of MA/MA2 oils.


Yeah Im aware of that. Shell seems to think that the oil will work fine in those applications, and advertises it as such on their bottles. You can either trust Shell or not, but I personally find them to be reputable, so it doesn't bother me that the oil is not an "actual" certified JASO oil.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
It's the oils that are CK4/SN that have weaker additive packages because the SN spec limits ZDDP levels.


Only for xW-20 and XW-30 viscosity grades. A xW-40 would be exempt from the 800ppm phosphorous upper limit.

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted By: jeff78
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
It's the oils that are CK4/SN that have weaker additive packages because the SN spec limits ZDDP levels.


Only for xW-20 and XW-30 viscosity grades. A xW-40 would be exempt from the 800ppm phosphorous upper limit.

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php



Argh that just makes things more complicated! The new CK4 Delo 15W40 has reduced ZDDP levels so I wonder if they did it on purpose then?

http://pqiadata.org/Chevron_Delo_15W40_4192017.html


In the case of Delvac, you can even compare the CJ4 to the CK4 and see how the levels reduced:

CJ4: http://pqiadata.org/MobilDelvac15W40.html

CK4: http://pqiadata.org/Mobil_Delvac_15W40_4192017.html

 

[ArcticDriver]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
http://www.pqiamerica.com/May 2013/rotella.htm
http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html


CJ-4 TBN- 9.4 Calcium 2321 Phosphorus 965 Zinc 1098 Boron 37

CK-4 TBN- 10.27 Calcium 2295 Phosphorus 1080 Zinc 1203 Boron 207


This is quite interesting to me but I don't understand why this change for a Dino T4 when the trend is to lower some of these metals.

Can you explain why these amounts would be increased? Is this a trend of the new CK-4's and how they will fulfill their promise of improved performance?

Thanks for this.

 

[HouseTiger]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


. . . Shell ROTELLA® T6 full synthetic heavy duty engine oil

API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9; JASO DH-2; Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification
(DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/MA2,
Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
[/i]

To me the real approval is the Allison TES 439

I've seen that comparison, the Allison 439 in several places, but without explanation. How is that one unique ??? Thanx

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

2012 Suzuki S40 650cc in my signature... very old engine, with flat tappets, online info says that at least 1200 ZDDP is required for this engine. Engine stretches out cam chains in less than 5000 miles requiring replacement in some cases as well.


What changed?!? (design-wise)

I have a 1999 Suzuki VZ800 Marauder (Kind of like a C50 or M50?) and it's always had SJ 10W-40 oil, for 83,000 miles. I typically changed the oil every 3,000-4,000 miles... filter 2X oil changes.

I don't know what you've been reading, but I think I'd like to see some hard facts/proof on why people say you "must have xxxxx oil"

Edit - I know what changed. (design-wise)
Being such a "low tier" bike in the Suzuki hierarchy, They probably started cutting costs - like no longer heat treating the timing chain links.
I think they determine this entry-level bike to be a "10,000 miles and junk it" machine.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: jeff78
I remember years ago when this bike was sold as the Suzuki Savage


LOL!! That thing?!?!? I just threw up in my mouth a little

That bike did more to hurt Suzuki's reputation for building "quality motorcycles" than any other model did.

Originally Posted By: jeff78
A 30hp air cooled single...you're probably close to or at full throttle a lot of the time,


I rode one once, thinking it might be "similar" power-wise to maybe an XR600 Honda or something.

I was wrong. So very wrong. I swore I'd never ride another one.

 

[bubbatime]

The Rotella 15W40 bottles in my garage are rated CK4 only. They no longer have a gas rating (no SL, SM, SN). Still use it in a motorcycle?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
The Rotella 15W40 bottles in my garage are rated CK4 only. They no longer have a gas rating (no SL, SM, SN). Still use it in a motorcycle?


I would say yes. The SN rating actually hurts good diesel oils, because the add-pack levels need to be "brought down" to SN levels for a dual CK/SN rating.

 

[mkskud]

Didn't the new product go into CJ/SM labelled bottles for a short time this past fall? That would tell me the new CK oil is still OK for the SM rating even though the new bottles don't have it.

 

[ChrisGuerrero]

You can use our Rotella T4 15W-40 engine oil or Rotella T6 5W-40 (synthetic, good for high and low temperatures). These two grades meet the JASO MA specifications and are safe for wet clutches. Also the zinc is 1200 ppm in both. Thanks for your interest in Shell products!