You are no longer protected by our laws

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Everyone needs to call their congressman and do something about this. We have just lost our rights as citizens to the whims of regimes hostile to us. Dan ******************************************** Congress cuts out, wrecks cyberprivacy by Bob Barr special to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Wednesday, August 09, 2006 at 9:00 AM I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The most dangerous time of the year for America is right before a congressional recess, and it matters not whether the Republican Party or the Democratic Party is in charge. Congress is now in its August recess, and at least the damage it can visit on the American people is on hold. Unfortunately, right before it took its latest break, the Senate adopted by voice vote a treaty that will stand as a tribute to Big Government and internationalism — the Cybercrime Treaty. This treaty, drafted not by U.S. government lawyers possessed of at least a passing familiarity with our Bill of Rights, but by internationalists with the Council of Europe, had been awaiting Senate ratification since 2001. The Bush administration, long enamored of any instrument granting the federal government broader or expanded power to gather information on citizens, for years had been urging Republican Senate leaders — particularly Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) and Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) — to bring the document up for a vote. Thanks largely to opposition by a broad coalition of conservative organizations and other groups focused on privacy issues, however, the treaty languished. Unfortunately, just last week before senators careened out of town for another recess — and despite having subjected this far-reaching treaty to but a single cursory hearing in June 2004 — Republican leaders succeeded in accomplishing the administration's directive and passed the treaty by voice vote, with virtually no substantive debate. U.S. Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) mounted a last-ditch effort to stop or at least slow the cybercrime railroad. But he was unsuccessful due to lack of support from his conservative colleagues, who were eager to give the administration more power or who just didn't care in their rush to leave for vacation. Now, thanks to the Senate's indifference, any person in this country who uses a computer in a manner that is of interest to a law enforcement agency of another country that has signed the Cybercrime Treaty may find themselves subject to our government collecting information on them and then sharing it with that foreign agency. The list of other nations that have already signed the treaty is not one that inspires confidence the data thus sought will be afforded proper privacy or constitutional protections. The list of signatory countries already includes Albania, Croatia, Ukraine, South Africa and dozens of others. Why should this treaty, now part of the law of the land, concern the average American citizen? For starters, its scope. The treaty covers not only crimes commonly considered "cybercrimes," that is, crimes of computers by computers. It covers any activities considered a crime by any signatory country that simply involves the use of a computer somewhere along the line. In other words, if the law enforcement officials in Croatia are investigating activities in their country that they consider criminal — political speech, or possession of a firearm, for example — they can now demand of U.S. law enforcement that it collect and turn over to them information they might demand which they allege involves a U.S. citizen, notwithstanding that U.S. citizen has done nothing deemed a crime under U.S. law. Of course, the U.S. citizen would be unaware his own government was thus snooping on him and sharing the fruits thereof with a foreign government. Moreover, this latest treaty affords no privacy protections whatsoever for U.S. citizens. It also will force Internet service providers to comply, yet requires neither the U.S. government nor the foreign requesting government to reimburse Internet service providers for costs of such forced cooperation. In addition, if disputes under the treaty arise, the foreign requesting government is empowered to take the issue to the International Court of Justice. Even though the United States has not formally acceded to the court, it would be required pursuant to the terms of the Cybercrime Treaty to be bound by its decisions. Although Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, in a letter to the Senate offering unqualified support for the treaty, promised the administration would not submit any disputes to the International Court of Justice, such promises are meaningless, because other nations will do so. Such fine points apparently were unfathomable by senators eager to do the administration's bidding. The bottom line is that a bipartisan group of U.S. senators, including many who call themselves "conservative," were far more concerned with getting out of town for junkets than they were interested in protecting the privacy of their constituents and the sovereign interests of this country. •Former Congressman and U.S. Attorney Bob Barr practices law in Atlanta. Web site: www.bobbarr.org. ### For Added Information Visit : http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/0809edbarr.html Office of Bob Barr 4401 Northside Parkway, Suite 100 Atlanta, GA 30327 770-836-1776 (V) · 678-904-5600 (F)
 
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Does this mean if I say sumpthin' bad about Mohammed Saudi Arabia will extradite me then behead me? Just the elite class promoting their own agenda at the common folks expense. I'm referring to Web usage and skirting but not delving into banned topics, I think. Will stop here so as to not slink into the forbidden zone.
 
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Dude, no offense meant, but what part of no politics do you not understand? Seems like 75% of the stuff you post would eventually turn into a political discussion.
 
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I agree with Critic. I don't see why its so hard to abide by the no R/S/P rule. I've been involved in many discussions involving those topics on other forums, and 9/10 times the discussion gets pretty heated.
 

Al

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quote:
Originally posted by sxg6: I agree with Critic. I don't see why its so hard to abide by the no R/S/P rule.
X 3  -  -  -  -  -  -
 

Dan4510

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Well, there are three members that totally miss the point. Was not posted for political content, but the content of your government yet again doing something against all citizen's interests. This bill estenially abrogates the protections US citizens expect at law and turns what has historically been a soverign matter over to nations hostil to our interests. I guess you three agree that other countries should be able to prosecte you over what our laws see as benign behavior. Whether this can be construed as a R/S/P matter is not relevnat, the news of this in balance outweighs the negatives of its political content. I for one does not like it when i can be prosecuted in secret and turned over to another nation. Or that our soverignity has been turned over to a notorioulsy corrupt "world court." Dan
 
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Dan, I understand your point perfectly, and the article as well. I doubt you intended to post it for political content, but such articles will quickly turn into a heated political discussion, which makes them unsuitable (and should not be posted in) this forum.
 

Al

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quote:
Originally posted by Dan4510: Well, there are three members that totally miss the point. Dan
I understand the point..watch how long it stays open.
 
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I understand the point just fine as well. But what you don't understand is that this could very easily go off track. Religion, Sex, and Politics are topics in which people have very strong feelings. People could blame the republicans, the democrats, our current administration, etc. If (i should say when) that were to happen, things would probably get out of hand. Your thread talks about our current administration, Republicans, Democrats, Senators... And you don't understand how we say this thread contains political content? Not gonna reply again after this.
 
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I mowed half an acre today with nothing more than the trusty ol 5.5 hp OHV Toro beast we've had for 10 years. What a great piece of lawn equipment. Then, I had a few cold PBRs (3.2 though......DOH). Pretty nice afternoon I must say! [Cheers!] [Razz]
 
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I got my carpet cleaned today for $75...one heck of a deal! So how's everyone's Sunday coming along, eh? [Razz]
 

Dan4510

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Sunday is coming along fine, been a wonderful day, sunny, pool has been cool...girls in bikinis, but in some locals the dim bulbs are still dim. Sundays are great....lol Dan
 
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i see nothing wrong with this law, unless you are involved in illegal computer related activitys.
What's illegal varies from country to country. By the way, try googling "tiananmen square" on the Chinese version of Google and compare to the regular Google results.
 
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This law has as much value as one that bans mountain climbing and river boat gambling in Russell Kansas. I'm not going to lose any sleep over a warrant showing up at my door from a judge in Botswana.
 
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I'm not going to lose any sleep over a warrant showing up at my door from a judge in Botswana.
Sure, but better scratch that safari in Botswana from your vacation plans. [Wink] I have no issue with basic international laws. I also have no problems with other laws in other countries. I have always the option of staying away. The vast amount of profiling that is occurring (Safeway knows what brand toothpaste I'm buying, my ISP knows I have a fondness for googling rum-nut bundt cake recipes) has opened the door to massive abuse of information already. Throw in legal matters and see how your freedom and privacy is being dismantled bit by bit.
 
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