Wristwatch news - get your affordable column wheel chronograph now

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If you don't know or don't care what a column wheel chronograph is then this post is not for you. Suffice it to say a column wheel chronograph is a type of chronograph mechanism that is superior to the much more common cam-lever chronograph mechanism. A column wheel chronograph is however a very difficult complication to manufacture due to the extreme precision that is required. While there are column wheel chronographs still being made, they tend to start just under $3,000 with the sky the limit. There has been an alternative that should not be outright dismissed. Chinese manufacturer Sea-Gull (Seagull) acquired the machinery and knowledge to fabricate the late 1940s Swiss Venus 175 movement in the 1960s. Sea-Gull has over the decades improved the movements a little bit and is still producing it, including a desirable version with a swan neck regulator with a micro-adjustment regulator screw. The basic ST19xx movement goes for around $100 which makes it a tremendous value proposition. This movement comes in many versions with different complications and hand configurations. Many microbrands use this movement. You can go on AliExpress and buy one.

Yesterday, Mark from Long Island Watch broke the news on YouTube that Sea-Gull is going to limit who can buy their ST movements. The minimum order quantity is 10,000 units. That will put a huge strain on many microbrands. It will also cause issues with spare parts. This is similar to what ETA did in the early 2000s when they stopped selling even parts to watch manufacturers and service centers not part of the ETA Group. This scheme backfired on ETA and they lost a lot of business because other manufacturers, such as Sellita, filled in the void with their movements. The problem with Sea-Gull doing this is that there is no alternative for a truly affordable column wheel chronograph movement.

The good news is that the patents on this movement have long expired and any capable manufacturer should be able to make a clone - something the Chinese are good at doing anyway. And Se-Gull movements are not all made by Sea-Gull themselves in Sea-Gull factories but outsourced to other Chinese movement manufacturers. Sea-Gull themselves make watches and not just movements, and being the largest mechanical movement maker in the world, they may simply want to charge more and produce less while trying to go upscale. So we don't know yet how this will shake out.

All I'm trying to say is, if there's a chronograph with an ST19 that you would like to own, with the future of the ST19 uncertain, now would be a good time to get one before the prices potentially go through the roof. The lowest price I find right now for a decent-looking watch with an ST 19 is a little under $100. And as I said, the only alternative is Swiss and will start at just under $3,000. And remember, the ST19 is the slightly updated version of a classic Swiss Venus movement.

 
What kind of accuracy can one expect from such a movement?

My Citizen Echo-drive gains 4 sec/month, which isn't bad, but I expected a bit better. Do you know if the Citizen can be adjusted?
Thanks.
 
What kind of accuracy can one expect from such a movement?
Out of the box you are looking at -10 to +40 seconds per day. If you take the time to regulate the movement you can get them to run within a few seconds per day like any other mechanical movement. Precision is more of a concern than accuracy. A movement that is keeping time imprecisely is all over the place may keep time time well on average but a movement that runs precisely will be consistently off which is preferable. Don't buy a mechanically-powered watch if you need to know the current time to the second or if you don't want to have to adjust the time occasionally.

My Citizen Echo-drive gains 4 sec/month, which isn't bad, but I expected a bit better. Do you know if the Citizen can be adjusted?
Thanks.

Unless your Citizen has a caliber 0100 your watch is within specs. Nobody will adjust that for you. Some older quartz watches had a provision for oscillator adjustment.

Standard Eco-Drive modules have an accuracy of +/-15 seconds per month
Eco-Drive Radio-controlled is always spot-on.
Caliber A060 is accurate to within 5 seconds per year.
Caliber 0100 is accurate to 1 second per year - this module has an 8.4mHz oscillator and is temperature-compensated. Sticker shock!
 
I sense quite a few knockoffs coming!
The thing is, the ST19 has been sold far under value. Now that many microbrands depend on the movement it's being made very expensive to obtain. A knock-off of a column wheel mechanism isn't easy or inexpensive to do. It requires a lot of expertise, specialized machinery, and highly skilled labor.

Column wheel chronographs are rarer then hens' teeth. They are only a few currently made by

Breitling
Hublot - I'm gagging a little
Sinn modifies a Valjoux 7750 with a column wheel chrono
Sea-Gull
TAG Heuer
Zenith

The column wheel mechanism is from the late 40s and was common in the 50s. The problem is the required precision and longterm durability of all parts. The column wheel controls all functions of the chronograph,, start, stop, and reset. It makes for smoother and more precise operation of the chronograph when compared to a cam-lever chronograph like your standard 7750.
 
My preferred timepiece...

1000003163.webp
 
Vavavroom, There’s a plethora of manufacturers on the Ali site that seem have the ST19 movement, confusing to my novice brain. I’m interested in a couple of the sub $200 pilot models, so could you make a brand/style recommendation?
 
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What kind of accuracy can one expect from such a movement?

My Citizen Echo-drive gains 4 sec/month, which isn't bad, but I expected a bit better. Do you know if the Citizen can be adjusted?
Thanks.
I don’t think my Eco-drive gains or loses 4 seconds over a year. The only time I need to adjust the time is daylight savings.
 
I don’t think my Eco-drive gains or loses 4 seconds over a year. The only time I need to adjust the time is daylight savings.
On a Citizen watch, the first 4 digits of the number engraved on the caseback denotes the caliber number. Citizen publishes the expected accuracy of all their calibers.
 
Not to jack your thread, but curious as to my Mido Ocean Star caliber 80 as far as gaining/losing time.
When I first got it, I notice it would run about 2-3 minutes off over (loss) the course of a month. Now that I've had it a couple of years, it seems to gain/lose very little over a month. What is normal(ish) - the internet is all over the place.
BRB - gotta use this new bank code I just got....
 
Not to jack your thread, but curious as to my Mido Ocean Star caliber 80 as far as gaining/losing time.
When I first got it, I notice it would run about 2-3 minutes off over (loss) the course of a month. Now that I've had it a couple of years, it seems to gain/lose very little over a month. What is normal(ish) - the internet is all over the place.
BRB - gotta use this new bank code I just got....
:eek::D
 
On a Citizen watch, the first 4 digits of the number engraved on the caseback denotes the caliber number. Citizen publishes the expected accuracy of all their calibers.
It’s an E111 and I think it’s supposed to be +/- 15 seconds per month but it’s much better than that. I went upstairs to see what time it’s showing because I haven’t worn it or adjusted it since we were on daylight savings for 2023, and it is off by about 42 seconds (I’m OCD with matching my watch times with my phone down to the second).
 
It’s an E111 and I think it’s supposed to be +/- 15 seconds per month but it’s much better than that. I went upstairs to see what time it’s showing because I haven’t worn it or adjusted it since we were on daylight savings for 2023, and it is off by about 42 seconds (I’m OCD with matching my watch times with my phone down to the second).
My old Eco-Drive diver has a caliber 3510 and that's supposed to be +/-15 seconds per month. I haven't set it in a year or so. It's off by 9 seconds and a few days. :p

You can see the solar cells are integrated into the dial. The honeycomb pattern is supposed to work like kill flash and hide the solar cells. More current versions have the solar cells hidden behind the dial and you can see the solar cells only from a certain angle if the light is just right. I don't mind the textured look. That was my backup watch for surfing, swimming, and snorkeling for a few years. I no longer trust the seals and wear it as a beater when working on the car etc.
 
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Out of the box you are looking at -10 to +40 seconds per day. If you take the time to regulate the movement you can get them to run within a few seconds per day like any other mechanical movement. Precision is more of a concern than accuracy. A movement that is keeping time imprecisely is all over the place may keep time time well on average but a movement that runs precisely will be consistently off which is preferable. Don't buy a mechanically-powered watch if you need to know the current time to the second or if you don't want to have to adjust the time occasionally.



Unless your Citizen has a caliber 0100 your watch is within specs. Nobody will adjust that for you. Some older quartz watches had a provision for oscillator adjustment.

Standard Eco-Drive modules have an accuracy of +/-15 seconds per month
Eco-Drive Radio-controlled is always spot-on.
Caliber A060 is accurate to within 5 seconds per year.
Caliber 0100 is accurate to 1 second per year - this module has an 8.4mHz oscillator and is temperature-compensated. Sticker shock!
Thank you very much for the info.
Watch.webp

I'm not going to complain about 4 seconds a month, I only paid something like $20.00 for the Citizen, the Hamilton was $10.00, but I have more into it now due to a service.
 
Are there any distributors out there that could pony up the bucks and buy the 10,000 pieces, then sell to small watch manufacturers for a reasonable markup?
 
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