Wouldn't UOA's be more accurate if based upon.....

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.....the used oil filter's ingredients? Instead of analyzing filtered oil, why not analyze the filter? Seems that would provide a much more accurate image of what's really going on in the engine?
 
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No ..we'd just argue that a Fram orange can was either good enough for UFA since it meets OEM requirements and is perfectly valid in results ..vs. M1/EAO/RP/whatever which others would argue are more accurate .... All we need is more avenues of conjecture and supposition.
 
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Yes and no. The particles caught by a filter are too large to be seen by spectrography. So it couldn't be analyzed the same way. But yes, a particle count histogram by size of particles caught in a filter would be very valuable, but probably not twenty bucks. This is one reason I'm pretty skeptical about UOA's around here. I see what people are talking about with M1 having high iron, but then people act like that's large iron shavings ripping around the engine, and that's simply not the case. Large enough to filter won't show up on UOA. Small enough to be on UOA won't be caught by filter.
 

Hethaerto

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Well I think it's a great idea myself, because the filter is a living document testifying what went on in the engine for the last oil change interval. :)
 
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 Originally Posted By: Hethaerto
Well I think it's a great idea myself, because the filter is a living document testifying what went on in the engine for the last oil change interval. :)
It would never work because the analysis would depend on how well the filter works and even this would only give you wear metals, not how much life is left in the oil or if there's a coolant leak.
 
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 Originally Posted By: bepperb
I see what people are talking about with M1 having high iron, but then people act like that's large iron shavings ripping around the engine, and that's simply not the case.
To me it would seem that any iron wear would be bad. Even if it`s on the microscopic level,isn`t the lowest wear metals what we`re striving for by being on a quest for the best possible lubricity?
 
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Aquariuscsm, you're assuming that the iron on the M1 UOA's is wear, while I am not. That's where a particle count of what was in a used filter would really shine. If you used the same [model] filter each time, you could see the differences in wear by partilce count. But in the UOA, you don't know if that's cleaning of varnish releasing iron, or less resistance to oxidation, or what. I guess to put it another way, a few ppm of iron doesn't matter much to me. Visible particles of iron, now, that's a completely different story.
 
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 Originally Posted By: bepperb
Aquariuscsm, you're assuming that the iron on the M1 UOA's is wear, while I am not.
I`m with you on the M1. I have no idea where iron levels could come from. I used M1 15W50 for a long time and had impeccable results with it. I`m just now learing how to read and decipher uoa`s and such. In my spare time I search through the past and present posts here trying to educate myself. I guess what seems weird to me is that expensive synthetic oils always show higher iron levels than cheap dinos,and I`ve had people tell me that tear-downs look better on engines that ran dinos. Who knows,huh!
 
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Used filter analysis is done on aviation engines. Very expensive obviously. In an aero-engine, excessive wear must be corrected or catastrophic failure of components will occur. In a land-based engine, catastrophic failure is an inconvenience, but it generally doesn't cost lives.
 

Hethaerto

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I don't know, it seems like a good idea to me to investigate the larger particles floating around in your oil (caught by the filter).
 
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