Would it make sense to cut open an oil filter of POSSIBLE sludger?

[paulri]

I'm not sure if sludge would accumulate in a filter or not, so I thought I'd ask.

Background--i recently inherited the camry in my sig, no problems with engine, I drove it 30 miles home, no overheating or leaks, no gunk on dipstick. However, there is no maintenance record, so I don't know the OCI.

Now that I just found out that this engine is on the sludge monster list (2.2L 4 cyl), I have decided to run 5K OCIs, no more than that. In the past when Ive run OCIs that short, I liked to use a Wix for two OCIs. I am concerned about clogging it up if I take the filter to 10K, especially since this is such a small one (IIRC it is just about three inches tall, outer dimension).

So I'm wondering if having the current filter cut open, or one that I put on (so I know for how many miles its been on) would be helpful? Or could it have sludge problems but still not show up in the filter, so this would be a waste of time & money to ship it to someone? Or should I just try to oversize the filter and forget about chasing the holy grail (detecting sludge on a car that has shown no evidence of any)?

 

[JMJNet]

I had a 2.2L camry and it is the best engine and I did not see any sludge when I sold it at 210K miles to a friend.
They drove it another 30K miles before totaling it.
It is a very strong engine and easy to maintain and the oil filter is easy to reach.
I was using PH3600 equivalent size filter instead of the small filter spec for this engine.
This engine has better quality than that of the later 2.4L Toyota engine.

I am not sure where you get the info from?
The 3.0L is in the sludge list but even than one is not too bad because I still see a lot of them on the street.

You can always open the filter if you want.
There is nothing preventing you for doing that.

 

[paulri]

You're telling me. Pop up the hood, and just reach right down. Can't get any easier than that.

I had a 2.2L camry and it is the best engine and I did not see any sludge when I sold it at 210K miles to a friend.
They drove it another 30K miles before totaling it.
It is a very strong engine and easy to maintain and the oil filter is easy to reach.

I saw it on two notices about the toyota sludge settlement. I always thought it was just the 3.0l 6 cyl (1MZ), but both mentioned this one also. Here is one line: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/car-parts-and-accessories/engine-sludge/index.htm

I think i'll start a new thread on oversizing the filter for this.

 

[JMJNet]

Does not mean to argue with Consumer Reports but If yours have sludge, it will not make it this long. Just thinking logically.

There are a lot of thread on oversizing filter for Toyota engine (2.2L, 3.0L, 3.3L and you own all of those), not just this specific engine.
Where do you think I have the idea if not on BITOG? LOL.
The later Toyota with cartridge filter cannot be oversized.

 

[paulri]

Well even if CR was correct, that's not to say that every single engine will develop sludge. We have someone here who is clocking 400K miles on his 3.0L IIRC.

Yeah I suppose the bare fact of its lasting this long, means it is ok? Good point there.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Of course it makes sense! Please cut it open for us

 

[Greasymechtech]

Fresh oil will clean sludge and filter is a great place to look for it. So, cut it open and change it every time.

Replace oil and filter at every interval.

5000 mile interval with any synthetic oil will be just fine. Until you know the condition of the engine, I would skip conventional oil, or shorten interval to 3000 miles with conventional.

After the class action lawsuit, Toyota edited the 7500 mile interval to 5000 miles and stuck with that consumer punishing 5k interval until they went with 0w20 synthetic. The 2.2/3.0 were certified sludge monsters for certain years and certain models.

Tighten down the valve covers since the gasket is known to loosen and leak. Or, just replace it and inspect for sludge.

Change the PCV valve.

If automatic, change the ATF, its filter, and the separate differential fluid(which uses ATF). Use a synthetic Dex/Merc like Mobil1, Valvoline Import, or a blend like Castrol Import, any Mercon-V.... all upgrades to the DexII/III used back then.

If manual transmission, use a GL4 75w90... Amsoil, Redline, Ford...

Don't forget the PCV valve, coolant, thermostat, radiator cap, spark plugs....

Non-interference engine... join AAA and if no history of timing belt, drive until it snaps, tow, and go from there. Or, replace it with a full kit and drive peace of mind for 60k+ miles.

I used the FL400s/3600/51516 sized filters on my 2.2's. You can use the stock peanut filter, the 4.7L 2UZ-FE PH3614 sized filter, or the PH3600 longer filter.

Does your have the oil cooler?
My 2.2 with an oil cooler was NOT part of the class action settlement. My 2.2 without an oil cooler was. Conventional oil with negligent owners, negligent intervals, and/or low oil levels, sludged! I used synthetic oil and never even got a spec of crud in any of my engines.

 

[Propflux01]

If you think you have a sludge issue, why would you even think about running the filter for two oil changes? Filters are cheap, change every OCI I would think.

 

[JC1]

You need to remove the valve cover and see the condition inside. I had the Sienna with the 3.0L V6. No massive sludge, but some black crusty deposits in the corners and lots of varnish in that motor. Still ran very well. I always changed the oil filer on that van every OCI and used full synthetic.

As others mentioned, change the PCV valve while you are at it. I thought the 2.2 is know for oil consumption, if so, make sure you periodically check oil level. Don't assume "It's a Toyota it never uses oil mindset".

 

[paulri]

Just the valve, or the grommet and the hose also? I suppose it only makes sense to change it all....

You need to remove the valve cover and see the condition inside. I had the Sienna with the 3.0L V6. No massive sludge, but some black crusty deposits in the corners and lots of varnish in that motor. Still ran very well. I always changed the oil filer on that van every OCI and used full synthetic.

As others mentioned, change the PCV valve while you are at it. I thought the 2.2 is know for oil consumption, if so, make sure you periodically check oil level. Don't assume "It's a Toyota it never uses oil mindset".

 

[paulri]

Just saw on youtube, it appears to be a fairly simple operation. That would eliminate the guesswork about sludge....

You need to remove the valve cover and see the condition inside. I had the Sienna with the 3.0L V6. No massive sludge, but some black crusty deposits in the corners and lots of varnish in that motor. Still ran very well. I always changed the oil filer on that van every OCI and used full synthetic.

As others mentioned, change the PCV valve while you are at it. I thought the 2.2 is know for oil consumption, if so, make sure you periodically check oil level. Don't assume "It's a Toyota it never uses oil mindset".

 

[ZeeOSix]

So I'm wondering if having the current filter cut open, or one that I put on (so I know for how many miles its been on) would be helpful? Or could it have sludge problems but still not show up in the filter, so this would be a waste of time & money to ship it to someone? Or should I just try to oversize the filter and forget about chasing the holy grail (detecting sludge on a car that has shown no evidence of any)?

Cut open the old filter, and also cut open the new filter after use. Cutting open oil filters is better than nothing.

Also, just look down the oil filter cap on the valve cover with a good strong LED flashlight and see what you can see. If there is any sludge in the engine it will be in the valve train area. No need to remove the valve cover for this quick check. One thing I do any time looking at a used vehicle.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I'm not sure if sludge would accumulate in a filter or not, so I thought I'd ask.

Background--i recently inherited the camry in my sig, no problems with engine, I drove it 30 miles home, no overheating or leaks, no gunk on dipstick. However, there is no maintenance record, so I don't know the OCI.

Now that I just found out that this engine is on the sludge monster list (2.2L 4 cyl), I have decided to run 5K OCIs, no more than that. In the past when Ive run OCIs that short, I liked to use a Wix for two OCIs. I am concerned about clogging it up if I take the filter to 10K, especially since this is such a small one (IIRC it is just about three inches tall, outer dimension).

So I'm wondering if having the current filter cut open, or one that I put on (so I know for how many miles its been on) would be helpful? Or could it have sludge problems but still not show up in the filter, so this would be a waste of time & money to ship it to someone? Or should I just try to oversize the filter and forget about chasing the holy grail (detecting sludge on a car that has shown no evidence of any)?

The best answer, change the filter EVERY OCI!

 

[JC1]

Cut open the old filter, and also cut open the new filter after use. Cutting open oil filters is better than nothing.

Also, just look down the oil filter cap on the valve cover with a good strong LED flashlight and see what you can see. If there is any sludge in the engine it will be in the valve train area. No need to remove the valve cover for this quick check. One thing I do any time looking at a used vehicle.

Some of the Toyota oil filter holes have some sort of baffle (my Sienna did) so you couldn't do that on that motor. Stupid design in my opinion, but I guess maybe it's a safeguard in case someone loses the oil cap.

 

[JC1]

Just the valve, or the grommet and the hose also? I suppose it only makes sense to change it all....

I just changed the PCV valve. You can use some brake cleaner to clean the hose and check how well air flows through it. Just blow compressed air on one end and check the flow on the other (if you don't have compressed air blow with your mouth might want to clean one end so you don't swallow something oily.)

 

[kschachn]

Some of the Toyota oil filter holes have some sort of baffle (my Sienna did) so you couldn't do that on that motor. Stupid design in my opinion, but I guess maybe it's a safeguard in case someone loses the oil cap.

Ahha “filler” holes.

 

[paulri]

I thought it was to collect gasses that would otherwise cause sludge? I know when I've looked inside my 3.3L in the Sienna just below the fill cap, it was filthy, but I've always told that this was normal, because of the baffle.

Ahha “filler” holes.

Some of the Toyota oil filter holes have some sort of baffle (my Sienna did) so you couldn't do that on that motor. Stupid design in my opinion, but I guess maybe it's a safeguard in case someone loses the oil cap.

 

[bbhero]

You need to remove the valve cover and see the condition inside. I had the Sienna with the 3.0L V6. No massive sludge, but some black crusty deposits in the corners and lots of varnish in that motor. Still ran very well. I always changed the oil filer on that van every OCI and used full synthetic.

As others mentioned, change the PCV valve while you are at it. I thought the 2.2 is know for oil consumption, if so, make sure you periodically check oil level. Don't assume "It's a Toyota it never uses oil mindset".

Great point JC1...

My lady's 98 Camry 2.2 certainly burns oil... The last run of 4k miles it burned 2 and 1/3 qts... The most I have seen thus far in seven years having the car.

I have seen that certain oils do better than others in this regard. Motorcraft 5w30 only burned 1/2 a qt in 3,200 miles. That was the least. This last run of Warren Oil was the highest. Federated Auto parts semi synthetic aka Warren Distribution burned a 1 qt and a half to 1 qt and 1/3 in 3,400 miles.

When we first got the car from my wife's grandmother the oil was likely just changed... Well around 1,200 miles all the sudden the oil had black pieces all in it... So numerous that the oil looked black. I thought that what likely happened was that the car had enough full heat cycles up to operating temp that all the crusted carbon inside the motor had came lose into the oil. The wife's grandmother never drove more than 3 miles the last 8-9 years she had the car. The car never really got up to true operating temp that whole time. I bet enough heat cycles up to full temp finally got all that baked black carbon loose and into the oil. Needless to say I changed that oil within a day or so after seeing that. The oil never looked like that again.

 

[paulri]

The last timing belt change (scribbled on the inside of the hood) says Aug 2011, IIRC about 50K miles ago. I think I'll replace it based on time, interference or not it will be driven by a new driver and I hate the idea of it snapping in the middle of a left hand turn in front of traffic.

I'll look at the cooler question tomorrow. I took a glance at it today and didn't see a separate piece between filter & engine block (if that is where it would go), although that might have been just the grease & grime from 275K miles of use covering it up.

Non-interference engine... join AAA and if no history of timing belt, drive until it snaps, tow, and go from there. Or, replace it with a full kit and drive peace of mind for 60k+ miles.

I used the FL400s/3600/51516 sized filters on my 2.2's. You can use the stock peanut filter, the 4.7L 2UZ-FE PH3614 sized filter, or the PH3600 longer filter.

Does your have the oil cooler?
My 2.2 with an oil cooler was NOT part of the class action settlement. My 2.2 without an oil cooler was. Conventional oil with negligent owners, negligent intervals, and/or low oil levels, sludged! I used synthetic oil and never even got a spec of crud in any of my engines.

 

[SR5]

I'm not sure if sludge would accumulate in a filter or not, so I thought I'd ask.

I recall seeing some pictures of a heavily sludged Euro car with a cartridge style oil filter. It was an extreme example, but the filter was definitely carrying a lot of sludge when they removed it.