Worm gear skil Saw oil

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Doing some comparison with different saws. Bosch - 1677m Worm Drive Saw ====== http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/files/r18817v21.pdf http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/files/r19119v21.pdf Manual states: "Your Bosch tool has been properly lubricated and is ready to use. However it is recommended that the gears be relubricated only with Bosch lubricant: WD7LUB or Skil 80111. ... After about 300-400 hours of operation, or at every second brush change, the bearings should be replaced ..." That is not much running time on a set of bearings. I believe this is due to the small sump capacity the low-performance fluid and lack of a fluid change recommendation. The only MSDS I found for the Bosch fluid was the same as Skil, Shell Valvata J.
 
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DeWalt - DWS535 Worm Drive Circular Saw ====== From the website Q&A: "What type of oil should I use with the DWS535/DWS535T? You should never have to fill the oil on this model but if you should need to you can use the oil listed in the manual (Mobil SHC636), or 85W-140 from an auto store or 449562-01 directly from DEWALT." From the owners manual: "Lubrication Self lubricating ball and roller bearings are used in the tool and relubrication is not required. However, it is recommended that, once a year, you take or send the tool to a certified service center for a thorough cleaning, inspection and lubrication of the gear case. ... 4. To add oil, slowly add 85W-140 gear oil or equivalent until it reaches the lowest plug hole thread. 85W-140 gear oil or equivalent is available from your local DeWALT service center." DeWalt 449562-01 sells for around $30 for a 6oz tube but I haven't found a source for the MSDS of this product. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_449562-01-1_med.gif
 
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A point was brought up by SOHCman in the other thread: What GL-4 for a worm-drive Trans/diff with brass http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2823612 ... that PAG automotive AC compressor oils might be similar. I did some research and found that there are three ISO grades in common use; 46, 100 and 150. An ISO 220 PAG worm oil would probably do the trick but a 150 compressor oil is likely too thin and/or might not have the proper additives. Without a PDS it's impossible to tell. A quick list of some 4S (Four Seasons) compressor oils: http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/air-conditioning-compressor-oils http://www.4s.com/upload/Four%20Seasons/Documents/MSDS/59003_MSDS.PDF http://www.4s.com/upload/Four%20Seasons/Documents/MSDS/59020_MSDS.PDF From the MSDS we see something strange. The product is either EMKAROX PAG 150 2+2 (Made by Croda), or it's PAG 150 2+2 made by EMKARATE. I think the second one is a typo? I also emailed Red Line to see if their ShockProof gear oil might be a possibility but Dave does not think so and said they did not have a suitable lube for this application. I'm going to see if there is a PAG 150 compressor oil in my area and try to dig up info on it. Maybe a bench-test is in order.
 
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I'm a woodworker and use my 8 1/4" Skil alot in the 40+ years I've owned it. I change the oil every year with Skil oil. Saw is still like new. Just some new brushes once in a while. Use their stuff, (cheap insurance) and that saw will run forever.
 
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Originally Posted By: pkunk
I'm a woodworker and use my 8 1/4" Skil alot in the 40+ years I've owned it. I change the oil every year with Skil oil. Saw is still like new.
Thanks for the info on your experience with the Skil lube. I'm trying to find a more optimal solution than the Skil lube. There are many better options but few that are available or affordable. If I can't find an easy step-up then I'll stick with the Shell Valvata J (AKA Skil Worm-Drive Lubricant).
 
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What did you use? I need to change the oil in Band saw with a brass/bronze worm gear. I picked up(and stupidly opened)a quart of Penzoil Synromesh becasue the manual call for "90wt" and I can't find any gl-4. But after some reading I think the PYB Syncromesh is to thin.
 
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Yes the Synchromesh will be too thin. You're probably looking for a gear oil in the 140 to 250 range but it depends on the worm design, rpm and temperature. If the manual calls for an SAE90 then it may be suited for that light of a grade. I have an oil here to test but haven't finished setting a baseline yet. The simplest answer is you want a PAO worm-gear oil in an ISO 320-680 (150-220 would better match an SAE90), or better yet, a PAG oil that is one or two grades lighter. If you can find Mobil SHC (629 to 632) then I would use that. I would stay away from most GL4 or GL5 oils unless you know that they're suitable for worm-drives or contain no sulfur.
 
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Thanks for the info. I emailed Valvoine, Pennzoil, Amsoil and Mag1(Supertech). Valvoine said they had nothing compatible, Pennzoil said to call them, didn't hear back from Amsoil and Mag 1 said thier(super tech) gear oil is fine to use. I had get it working today so I went with SuperTech 85w140 mineral. I found two manuals on line for the same saw from two different manufacturers. One recomended "90wt gear oil" and the other recomended "140wt gear oil" so that is why I just went with the ST85w140. That and they said it was fine and it says on the bottle it is fine copper and bronzed bearings. $4ish a quart is nice as well. I had Pennzoil 80w90 marine Gl-5 in the sump when I opened it to show friend the gear becasue his gear stripped and thier was quite a bit bronze in the sump considering I just changed it last year. I'm sure it had never been done in the 20 plus years of it's life and I don't recall seeing much metal in the sump after dumping the origional fill. So I didn't bother to call Pennzoil. I'll check the ST soon to see how it is doing. After about an hour of cutting steel tonight the gear box was not warm to the touch. It never really got that warm the the Pen 80w90 either though. I have it set for about 250rpm IIRCC.
 
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Thanks for the update and info on your findings. If you notice the brass turning blackish on the surface (not the mating surface) that's a sign of the corrosion taking place. What were the specs or ratings for the 85w140 you're using?
 
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Originally Posted By: martinq
Thanks for the update and info on your findings. If you notice the brass turning blackish on the surface (not the mating surface) that's a sign of the corrosion taking place. What were the specs or ratings for the 85w140 you're using?
http://mag1.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=5beb7b52-68a1-4996-9206-47a5edcb75b3 All the ST gear oil bottles say they are compatible with copper and bronze bearings. The gear was not black or abnormally discolored. The wear could have been from the viscosity beiong to light(80w90)? From my reading corrsion doesn't really happen unless the sump temps are over ~100c and my saw doens't heat up much at all.
 
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Quote:
The wear could have been from the viscosity beiong to light(80w90)? From my reading corrsion doesn't really happen unless the sump temps are over ~100c and my saw doens't heat up much at all.
Be aware that localized temps in the contact zone are very likely higher than that. Still, I think the gear oil should work fine.
 
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That Mobil SHC 636 is available on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobil-SHC-636-wo...=item460d46070a) I have one of those RIDGID worm-drive saws that specifies the Mobil SHC 636. I almost put in the Skil lubricant since I had a bottle of it left over from my last saw, but then I read up on the differences between the two and I'm glad that I didn't use it. Mobil SHC 636 is a synthetic and it's about as thick as honey. With a viscosity of 680 it's way thicker than the Skil lubricant. It also lubricates over a very wide temperature range. If I remember correctly, the viscosity on the Skil lube was somewhere around 460. I'm guessing that the reason you're seeing particles in your drained fluid is because the Skil lubricant isn't up to the job and your gears are wearing down.
 
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Originally Posted By: rancher
That Mobil SHC 636 is available on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobil-SHC-636-wo...=item460d46070a) ... With a viscosity of 680 it's way thicker than the Skil lubricant. It also lubricates over a very wide temperature range. If I remember correctly, the viscosity on the Skil lube was somewhere around 460. I'm guessing that the reason you're seeing particles in your drained fluid is because the Skil lubricant isn't up to the job and your gears are wearing down.
Thanks for the link. If I was to use the Mobil SHC I would go with a lower grade (320 or 460) due to it's higher VI (need to test to be sure). I'm trying a lower-grade synth right now and will try to get some results. The problem with the Skil lube isn't the grade per se, but it's low VI. In a different application it would be fine, but it's not high-performance. Increasing the sump-capacity or lowering the fluid temps would also help but the fluid needs pre-heating when cold also.
 
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I am a carpenter. I don't know how anyone uses those tanks. They are heavy,awkward,the blade is on the wrong side so you get blasted with sawdust in your face. I've got 3 in my trailer. All milwaukee's. the cords on them going into the motor are thicker than the 20 amp extension cords we've got,and they snap breakers on the generators at start up. Totally purpose built,for cutting through lumber as deep as the blade will go. I've got a chainsaw attachment for doing timber frame details. By the end of the day using those things I can't lift my arms.
 
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