Winter oils for Detroit 2-stoke diesels

[cak446]

What's the deal with Detroit 2-stroke diesels and the CF-2 rating? Why do these engines like single grade oils so much? What kind of oil can be used in these engines in the winter? Is the CI-4 rating significantly different from a CF-2 rating that it will cause engine damage?

We have an 8V92 engine at work mounted on a skid unit that is left outside at remote areas. My employer plans on using straight 30wt oil all year round. Since 30wt is pretty much useless at -40, I would really like to convince my boss to use a 0w30 of some sort.


Carl

 

[sub_zero]

I am no Detroit diesel expert but I believe it has to do with the ash content and ring fouling.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
you can read more in the heavy vehicle/equipment area. Please search
The correct grade/specification of a Monograde oil for 2 cycle Detroits is critical to their durability

 

[userfriendly]

Detriot Diesel does have some exceptions to the rule when it comes to extreme cold, but at the risk of "accelerated cylinder liner wear".
The statment goes on to recomending changing back to an SAE 30 and 40 asap.

Common sense tells us that an engine oil must flow and be pumpable before it can do its job, and an engine must be able to start to do its job.

The lowest pour point of any SAE 30 CF-2 I've seen so far is Pet-Can's Duron at -36C or -33F that has a VI of 123.
There are very likely other brands equally as good in the cold.

I'd be tempted to add about 30% SAE 10W to that oil for -40 cold soaked starts.
Your boss will like the cheap fix instead of an expensive one.

 

[cak446]

Doh!

[ November 06, 2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: cak446 ]

 

[cak446]

 

[rpn453]

Apparently I'm a dunce today. I managed to accidentally post twice under my buddy's name after he left it logged in.

quote:

---

Originally posted by userfriendly:
I'd be tempted to add about 30% SAE 10W to that oil for -40 cold soaked starts.
Your boss will like the cheap fix instead of an expensive one.

---

I guess the expensive one would be Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 or 15W-40 H.D. Diesel Oil, which they recommend for CF-2 service. Yet they only claim a HTHS of >3.5 for the 5W-30. I think Detroit Diesel requires 3.7, which the 15W-40 easily meets. I don't know if there are any other requirements that it's missing to be used in a Detroit though, so I'd check into that first.
The cost would probably be a drop in the bucket for a lot of companies, but you'd still probably have a tough time convincing them to use it. Only an economic analysis would show whether it's worth it. Could be a simple one though, if there's a lot of time wasted whenever it needs to be used. Oil analysis could also show the opportunity for extended drain intervals.

 

[userfriendly]

Washinton DC has the Chevy Chase,
you have Circle Drive.

Don't start mixing up the apples with the oranges.

 

[Ken2]

How's he going to get that engine started at -40? Does he keep heat on the water jacket? If so, he should heat the oil, also. Will he use ether to get it started?...really rough on the engine, and it probably won't start anyway. At -40, it probably won't even crank over.

A local diesel shop with DD experience will have the best advice.


Ken

 

[userfriendly]

Whatever system they used for the last 20 winters will likely work this winter.

 

[TooSlick]

Carl,

The Amsoil 15w-40 Marine oil and 15w-40 synthetic blend have proven field performance in the two stroke DD engines. I remember a field test they ran in the late 1980's - it involved over 40 trucks with an average of 220,000 miles on each engine. Wear was very low and there were no broken fire rings, a common problem for some of these. As I recall, this was the 8V92TTA engine type. If you are interested in getting some of these product, let me know. I'll be glad to double check about this application with Amsoil Tech Services in WI.

If you want the straight weight, Amsoil also makes a 30wt, CF-2 rated, PAO/Ester synthetic - product code is ACD, with a fairly low pour point ....

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[widman]

I have successfully (with analisis) a good .90 Ash 15W-40 and 20W-50 oils in Detroit engines. There are two main problems. Higher Ash content accumulates in the ports (have ports, not valves), and VI's tend to shear. I don't have the books with me at the moment, but there are specific shear tests for Detroit Diesels.
That being said, here is an explanation from Detroit Diesel:
"The use of a block heater or any other type of engine heating device is
recommended for engine start-up in cold weather. Once the engine reaches
the normal operating temperature, the ambient temperature has little effect
on the engine's internal temperature.

Detroit Diesel recommends the use of single grade viscosity oils in all two
cycle engines. Normally the recommended lubricating oil viscosity is SAE
40. In cold weather operation, if for any special reason or circumstance,
the use of a heating device is not possible, a single grade SAE 30 viscosity
oil can be used with a good probability that there will not be a hard
starting condition (please refer to publication 7SE270). Only as a last
resource, and with ambient tempartures below 0 degrees C, a multi-viscosity
oil may be used. The following indications must be considered:

1)- On Series 53, 71 and 92 engines running under long cold weather
conditions below 0 degrees C, if it is not possible to use a SAE 40 oil, an
engine heating device and/or a SAE 30 oil, then 15W-40 oils are the only
multi-viscosity oils to be considered.
2)- No other multi-viscosity oil are recommended for two cycle Detroit
Diesel engines regardless of the operating conditions.
3)- The use of multi-viscosity oils is considered an exception for special
operating conditions only. The use of these lubricating oils in two cycle
engines under normal operating conditions, variable weather conditions or
ambient temperatures above 0 degrees C, will not provide satisfactory
service results.
3)- Multi-viscosity oils should not be used under any circumstances on
Series 149 engines or in any two cycle marine application engines.
4)- Detroit Diesel Corporation recommends the use of lubricating oils, fuel
and filters as per publication 7SE270. The use of these products is the
responsability of the supplier and the end user.

WT
[email protected]"