Windows 7 End of Life Questions

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The problem for me however is that MS's approach with 10 has changed in that it will never be "final", that there will supposedly always be another "release" around the corner which, for environments that depend on static images, promises to upend the stable model which they have traditionally followed.

You do know the solution to that.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
That's funny!
Privacy (as-in ads / shopping habits....etc) is the only backstep Microsoft has taken since Windows 7 years ago. The operating systems today are much better now with Windows 10.

If Microsoft wants to know that I like oil forums, gun forums, baseball forums and hunting forums, that's OK with me. Go ahead and cater ads to suit my surfing and buying habits online. I really don't care - especially since I haven't seen an ad on my computer in several years, thanks to Adblock Plus, Malwarebytes and UBlock Origin.

Microsoft's Windows 10 is so much better than 7 or 8.


Yes, privacy was indeed a major issue. But functionality isn't even as good as 7. The search bar is still broken. That in itself is enough to still consider 10 as "not yet" better than 7. Can it be one day? Maybe. But it isn't yet.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The problem with Windows 10 isn't that it is "bad" per se, but rather that it is, like any other "new" Microsoft OS, not "final", which makes dealing with it in an enterprise environment difficult.

Since SP1, Windows 7 has been very static. What works with it works with it and nothing magically changes itself seemingly without warning. The same cannot be said for Windows 10 where with the major build updates still being rolled out, things change significantly.

The problem for me however is that MS's approach with 10 has changed in that it will never be "final", that there will supposedly always be another "release" around the corner which, for environments that depend on static images, promises to upend the stable model which they have traditionally followed.

When discussions like these invariably come up I find it quite common for Jimmy Home User to thump his chest telling everyone how awesome Windows 10 is, just like he did with Windows 8 and 8.1, neither of which ever achieved any significant penetration in the Enterprise. The logistical challenges posed by an OS still in a state of flux; still a moving target doesn't register on his radar, nor should it, as those challenges are generally unique to large-scale deployments with which he is unfamiliar.

That's my 2 cents anyways. The healthcare industry is still rolling out Windows 7 in new deployments and Lenovo, HP and DELL still sell business systems with 7 as the default image, demonstrating that even in smaller scale deployments where a common image and downgrade licensing aren't in place, that a significant demand for 7 still exists.


Bingo!

Originally Posted By: Garak
You do know the solution to that.
wink.gif



Linux. But of course the main point here was about stability and reliability for home *and* business. I have a Linux Mint bootable USB that I use from time to time when I feel like being masochistic (kidding). It's a nice environment, but not for the uninitiated.
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Newest offerings (Windows 10) are the best-ever.

true if you dont mind baked in junkware and advertising trash.
and you dont mind auto opt in spyware with settings that m$ may or may not honor.
and having to hack your own machine to remove unwanted apps,tiles,ad nauseum.actually adnausium is a rather interesting browser extension.
or to make it only update when you tell it to.
thanks but no thanks.
 
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Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Linux. But of course the main point here was about stability and reliability for home *and* business. I have a Linux Mint bootable USB that I use from time to time when I feel like being masochistic (kidding). It's a nice environment, but not for the uninitiated.

Operating systems started to go down the toilet at the exact moment the powers that be decided the uninitiated would be a good market for computers.
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I greatly appreciate all the replies to this thread. I am learning a lot. I recently spent some time with a Windows 10 computer, and I now know I can make the transition if necessary, but not just yet. I still prefer Windows 7. I am going to watch and wait for a while to see if Microsoft does actually end support for Windows 7 in 2020.

You guys teach me a lot, and I am grateful.
 
Originally Posted By: JustinH
I never understand folks who keep a computer for 10 years or whatever.


Why? If it works, why spend money on something you don't need?

We finally replaced our old XP machine at home which used to be my girlfriend's mother's computer until we replaced that a few years ago. It will now become our Linux desktop since the current one is a couple of years older and less powerful.

CPU performance has pretty much stalled for years, to the point where I can still play the latest games (even in VR) on a PC from 2012. Microsoft's planned obsolescence is about the only reason to upgrade any normal home PC less than ten years old.

The new Windows PC is Windows 10, and about all I can say is that it's better than Windows 8. So much [censored] that had to be disabled just to make it usable.
 
Of course companies are still releasing Windows 7 machines. It's been well defined and has been used for that much longer. I can guarantee when 7 came out, most computers for companies were running and were planning on running XP for quite a while longer.

It takes time to change systems over, especially when you have non-technical people using those machines. As soon as something changes or doesn't happen the way they have been doing it for N amount of years, there is going to be widespread panic and frustration. Resulting to "the older version worked so why get rid of it" et al.

As soon as Windows 10 came out, my computer science department put Windows 10 on its machines that summer, including the whole campus. Not one issue occurred within the CS department. No mass emails were sent out to people who were using W10 on the non-cs computers either. Streamlining I guess the word is.

The search feature is not terrible in Windows 10. You want it to work "better"? Turn off Katana or whatever it's name is. It will be that much smoother.

As far as privacy: Really just MOOT. I fully agree it is utterly important. It is moot because it doesn't matter what OS you are running. If you are on the internet, if someone (you know who I'm talking about) REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to know what you were doing, they can and most certainly will. It's futile. Unless you want to go through the VPN and all the other steps along with it yadda yadda yadda.

Bloatware: Bloatware has been installed as far as I can remember, I whole heartedly know it was on Win 7. Lenovo has had bloatware pre-installed on their computers for a very long time. Most recently, it was installed via BIOS - lookup up Superfish adware, which turns out to leave open a vulnerability to a MITM attack.

OT:
Linux Mint is nothing to write home about. Not trying to be elitist but I don't get the cult-like fad of Mint. Stable? Yeah. I never was fond of their lack of security updates, but I guess that falls in line with the duality of stability. I have been running Arch for well over 4 years and have not encountered any problems with it, even with its "bleeding edge" rolling releases. Should newbies run Arch? Meh, probably not, but I don't think there should be prescriptions for newcomers. It's not hard to learn a new OS, just dive in, play around with it, and you'll get the hang of it.
End OT

If Windows 7 does all you need and you're fine with not having updated security; go ahead. I have an old XP laptop that I do penetration testing on. XP is vulnerable and I have been successfully able to turn the camera on and record video, record sound, and gain access to the file system for my manipulation. Not saying Windows 7 isn't more secure, but vulnerabilities are always being found, and if you aren't updating your security, and you blindly do something to allow something malicious on your computer... well you know.

It's been said, Linux is the solution, especially since you hardly do anything with your computer (from what you've mentioned). Read some tuts, it's not hard and won't take you long.
 
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
As far as privacy: Really just MOOT. I fully agree it is utterly important. It is moot because it doesn't matter what OS you are running. If you are on the internet, if someone (you know who I'm talking about) REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to know what you were doing, they can and most certainly will.


Um, other operating systems don't send a whole bunch of information about everything you do back to their servers with no way to turn it off and no way to find out what it's sending. And keep changing the privacy settings when installing new updates.

Windows 10 is spyware, pure and simple. I do everything important on Linux, so I don't much care that the Windows 10 machine is telling Microsoft that we're scanning photos or running iTunes, but I'd never use Windows for anything that matters again.
 
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
As far as privacy: Really just MOOT. I fully agree it is utterly important. It is moot because it doesn't matter what OS you are running. If you are on the internet, if someone (you know who I'm talking about) REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to know what you were doing, they can and most certainly will.


Um, other operating systems don't send a whole bunch of information about everything you do back to their servers with no way to turn it off and no way to find out what it's sending. And keep changing the privacy settings when installing new updates.

Windows 10 is spyware, pure and simple. I do everything important on Linux, so I don't much care that the Windows 10 machine is telling Microsoft that we're scanning photos or running iTunes, but I'd never use Windows for anything that matters again.


I don't have too much in this argument as I generally dislike Windows and try to avoid even using altogether, but the Unity in Ubuntu was doing roughly the same things (can't remember specifically) and it is still by far the most popular OS (yes I know it was Unity will be no longer used).
 
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
As far as privacy: Really just MOOT. I fully agree it is utterly important. It is moot because it doesn't matter what OS you are running. If you are on the internet, if someone (you know who I'm talking about) REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to know what you were doing, they can and most certainly will.


Um, other operating systems don't send a whole bunch of information about everything you do back to their servers with no way to turn it off and no way to find out what it's sending. And keep changing the privacy settings when installing new updates.

Windows 10 is spyware, pure and simple. I do everything important on Linux, so I don't much care that the Windows 10 machine is telling Microsoft that we're scanning photos or running iTunes, but I'd never use Windows for anything that matters again.


Doesn't your cellphone send call-info and keep records of you-too? Then why not boycott it also? Don't like tracking?... then throw that cellphone in the garbage.

I suppose you should boycott places like Amazon, Ebay....etc. For they keep records of you also. Perhaps you need to move to a cloistered cave, if you're that paranoid of someone knowing your buying habits online.
 
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I forgot to mention throwing your credit card away too emg! Use cash-only for everything.... to stop anyone knowing your card purchases / bill-paying habits.
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
I forgot to mention throwing your credit card away too emg! Use cash-only for everything.... to stop anyone knowing your card purchases / bill-paying habits.


Not everyone who finds offence at the data collection performed - without most users' knowledge or consent by software and online service providers - needs to choose a life of hermetic isolation. Governments are not going to do it so it falls to consumers to keep privacy invasions and abuses by those wishing to profit from our data in check.

I believe it is both defeatist and alarming that so many of us have thrown up our hands and said "there is no hope for privacy in today's digital world so we might as well cease advocating for it". It doesn't need to be this way; and I do not believe it should be this way with products for which you've paid a licensing fee (ie. Windows). Other services likes Facebook make no pretenses toward real respect for your privacy because you and the information about you **are** their product. But Windows and other OS's that take your money and then mine your data for further exploitation seems like things have gotten a little out of hand.
 
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
I don't have too much in this argument as I generally dislike Windows and try to avoid even using altogether, but the Unity in Ubuntu was doing roughly the same things (can't remember specifically) and it is still by far the most popular OS (yes I know it was Unity will be no longer used).


Ubuntu did two things that ticked off users to the point that they changed the policy quickly:

1) Amazon (and sometimes other web-based) results showed up in Dash searches. This availed your (anonymous) IP to Amazon AND would often return results that were not appropriate for all audiences. While trying to figure out how to mask a portion of an image in GIMP and searching for "gimp mask" you could go down a whole rabbit hole of adventure, for example.

2) Searches performed in the Dash were sent (anonymously; I don't even think the IP was sent) to Canonical's servers for their use by Canonical to improve search results.

This was flat-out dumb on their part and they stopped it after enough users complained.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19
I don't have too much in this argument as I generally dislike Windows and try to avoid even using altogether, but the Unity in Ubuntu was doing roughly the same things (can't remember specifically) and it is still by far the most popular OS (yes I know it was Unity will be no longer used).


Ubuntu did two things that ticked off users to the point that they changed the policy quickly:

1) Amazon (and sometimes other web-based) results showed up in Dash searches. This availed your (anonymous) IP to Amazon AND would often return results that were not appropriate for all audiences. While trying to figure out how to mask a portion of an image in GIMP and searching for "gimp mask" you could go down a whole rabbit hole of adventure, for example.

2) Searches performed in the Dash were sent (anonymously; I don't even think the IP was sent) to Canonical's servers for their use by Canonical to improve search results.

This was flat-out dumb on their part and they stopped it after enough users complained.


Gotcha. I remembered the uproar, never read too much into it. I never liked Unity and it was least on my rankings in desktop environments.
 
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