Will This Pandemic Be the Nail in the Coffin for Some Automakers?

Originally Posted by PimTac
Rmay635703 said:
PimTac said:
JeffKeryk said:
PimTac said:
This kind of trip would affect the range of a EV I would think. But even today, at 175 miles one way, there would have to be a charging done either at the destination or on the way back.


And that assumes driving in a warm weather climate. Now take the rated range and 1/2 it for us Northerners on the coldest days.
 
Originally Posted by tbm5690
Originally Posted by PimTac
Rmay635703 said:
PimTac said:
JeffKeryk said:
PimTac said:
This kind of trip would affect the range of a EV I would think. But even today, at 175 miles one way, there would have to be a charging done either at the destination or on the way back.


And that assumes driving in a warm weather climate. Now take the rated range and 1/2 it for us Northerners on the coldest days.




A good point.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk



The question is simply one of many in deciding if an EV and which EV is right for a given person. It is not the only one but it is key.
FYI range anxiety is real. It is the #1 issue owners need to understand, learn about and hopefully overcome.

In my experience, Tesla sales personnel are very helpful in speaking to many of the points you brought up.
I have spoke with many EV owners of the various makes. I have found them to be very honest about real world use and the ups and downs of their particular vehicle.
Any time I have posted here or on the Lexus site I have tried to be honest.


That's an overly simplistic statement about what's "right for the person" when certain elements are trying to ram a false technology down peoples throats and misrepresenting it as they go and then denying the total body of information to make this "choice".

Any of those EV owners need a work truck? Have to haul payloads? Tow trailers/boats etc. with a family? Have to use for industry or farm? If not then I formally question the quality of the dataset in terms of relevance to the key issues in dispute.

Post the taxonomy of this "condition" of range anxiety- until then its just another made up term. There's nothing to overcome that actual facts and data wouldn't "cure".

Its not about the decision (I wouldn't argue a well informed personal decision)- its about the snake technology peddlers deliberately altering the whole body of information to make the informed choice you speak of.

Being honest is one thing- being accurate and truthful in depth is another.

Many drink Kool-Aid and parrot words; Many truly believe them- its not an honesty question at the individual level

its about legitimate scientific data that's inclusive, relevant and contextual and transparent showing all aspects of the scenario- that's where the lying is and its at a higher level.

Just injecting facts and data into the mix
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk



The question is simply one of many in deciding if an EV and which EV is right for a given person. It is not the only one but it is key.
FYI range anxiety is real. It is the #1 issue owners need to understand, learn about and hopefully overcome.

In my experience, Tesla sales personnel are very helpful in speaking to many of the points you brought up.
I have spoke with many EV owners of the various makes. I have found them to be very honest about real world use and the ups and downs of their particular vehicle.
Any time I have posted here or on the Lexus site I have tried to be honest.


That's an overly simplistic statement about what's "right for the person" when certain elements are trying to ram a false technology down peoples throats and misrepresenting it as they go and then denying the total body of information to make this "choice".

Any of those EV owners need a work truck? Have to haul payloads? Tow trailers/boats etc. with a family? Have to use for industry or farm? If not then I formally question the quality of the dataset in terms of relevance to the key issues in dispute.

Post the taxonomy of this "condition" of range anxiety- until then its just another made up term. There's nothing to overcome that actual facts and data wouldn't "cure".

Its not about the decision (I wouldn't argue a well informed personal decision)- its about the snake technology peddlers deliberately altering the whole body of information to make the informed choice you speak of.

Being honest is one thing- being accurate and truthful in depth is another.

Many drink Kool-Aid and parrot words; Many truly believe them- its not an honesty question at the individual level

its about legitimate scientific data that's inclusive, relevant and contextual and transparent showing all aspects of the scenario- that's where the lying is and its at a higher level.

Just injecting facts and data into the mix





Perhaps I should have clarified my post. I was responding to 2 of your earlier points.
"The question" was referring to your response to "how often to you drive over 200 miles in a day". My point is, that is one question among many. But a critical one that leads to others.

Regarding range anxiety, you seem to doubt its existence. It is the #1 issue people have with EVs. Made up name? I think everything gets a name sometime so it can be referred to.

I have owned a Tesla Model 3 for over a year; I have real world experience. I have talked to many owners, as I posted before.
You are making a lot of assumptions about people and their honesty, accuracy, etc.
I am talking about real world experience. I have learned a lot in the past 17 months of ownership. I have shared my experience with others, at least 4 of which have purchased Model 3s.
I may have dissuaded more.

I hope this clarifies my points better than before.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk






Perhaps I should have clarified my post. I was responding to 2 of your earlier points.
"The question" was referring to your response to "how often to you drive over 200 miles in a day". My point is, that is one question among many. But a critical one that leads to others.

Regarding range anxiety, you seem to doubt its existence. It is the #1 issue people have with EVs. Made up name? I think everything gets a name sometime so it can be referred to.

I have owned a Tesla Model 3 for over a year; I have real world experience. I have talked to many owners, as I posted before.
You are making a lot of assumptions about people and their honesty, accuracy, etc.

I am talking about real world experience. I have learned a lot in the past 17 months of ownership. I have shared my experience with others, at least 4 of which have purchased Model 3s.
I may have dissuaded more.

I hope this clarifies my points better than before.


It does but its not a case of doubting it- I made the factual statement that it does not exist as a legitimate malady. Its a made up term. There is no taxonomy recognized by anyone for it. Its given a name so it can be weaponized as required for those who don't buy into the line from the ministry of truth.

Sure you may have real world experience in one area- but lets add some breadth and depth and cover more scenarios and use types.

Those are not "assumptions", I work in power and have had these projects and spent much time clearing up the false statements when those who promise leave me with a mess to clean up.

And of course this is all directed specifically at the entire "field" of green energy with EV as a part and in no way aimed at you personally- just specifically the points you are raising.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Yes, they were started earlier. Never mass produced.


They were by the standards of the time (when basically nothing was mass-produced in the modern sense). In 1900, around a third of cars in the US were electric, vs about 20% gasoline.

Only steam cars beat electric car sales at that time. Though no-one seems to be working to bring those back.

Interestingly, it appears I was wrong. Electric cars apparently go back two hundred years, not a hundred and fifty.
 
Originally Posted by emg
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Yes, they were started earlier. Never mass produced.


They were by the standards of the time (when basically nothing was mass-produced in the modern sense). In 1900, around a third of cars in the US were electric, vs about 20% gasoline.

Only steam cars beat electric car sales at that time. Though no-one seems to be working to bring those back.

Interestingly, it appears I was wrong. Electric cars apparently go back two hundred years, not a hundred and fifty.

Before 1920, only the rich had cars. Very few cars were produced.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Come on Jeff … now only the rich have Tesla's ...·

Actually, this is an important point...
When people ask me about buying a Model 3, I always ask them, "Are you sure you can afford this car?"
I drove used Hondas and Toyota pickups forever.

Of course a '73 FireChicken with a pumped up '69 400 cu in engine was in the mix....
What a car! I built it in my first 2 years in AA as something to help keep me off the juice.
 
Sorry to derail the ICE and Electric school yard slap fest going on.

I would add to the discussion that the automotive industry has for the last few years been running had a almost 30% over capacity for the market until recent events. There is bound to either be some contraction, consolidation or exiting of certain markets to respond to it.

For the USA market, I put Mitsubishi on death watch and Nissan contracting considerably their current market share to almost be the next Mitsubishi.
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk



The question is simply one of many in deciding if an EV and which EV is right for a given person. It is not the only one but it is key.
FYI range anxiety is real. It is the #1 issue owners need to understand, learn about and hopefully overcome.

In my experience, Tesla sales personnel are very helpful in speaking to many of the points you brought up.
I have spoke with many EV owners of the various makes. I have found them to be very honest about real world use and the ups and downs of their particular vehicle.
Any time I have posted here or on the Lexus site I have tried to be honest.


That's an overly simplistic statement about what's "right for the person" when certain elements are trying to ram a false technology down peoples throats and misrepresenting it as they go and then denying the total body of information to make this "choice".

Any of those EV owners need a work truck? Have to haul payloads? Tow trailers/boats etc. with a family? Have to use for industry or farm? If not then I formally question the quality of the dataset in terms of relevance to the key issues in dispute.

Post the taxonomy of this "condition" of range anxiety- until then its just another made up term. There's nothing to overcome that actual facts and data wouldn't "cure".

Its not about the decision (I wouldn't argue a well informed personal decision)- its about the snake technology peddlers deliberately altering the whole body of information to make the informed choice you speak of.

Being honest is one thing- being accurate and truthful in depth is another.

Many drink Kool-Aid and parrot words; Many truly believe them- its not an honesty question at the individual level

its about legitimate scientific data that's inclusive, relevant and contextual and transparent showing all aspects of the scenario- that's where the lying is and its at a higher level.

Just injecting facts and data into the mix






There is so much misinformation on here-is it done purposely- IN MOST CASES I think not. But this current discussion and the one on the other forums about Nissan/Honda motors and timing chains/timing belts is full of misinformation.
 
Originally Posted by CKN


There is so much misinformation on here-is it done purposely- IN MOST CASES I think not. But this current discussion and the one on the other forums about Nissan/Honda motors and timing chains/timing belts is full of misinformation.


At the level of disciple, ground level or similar, I totally agree. I see it a lot having to go in and try to make these things produce like they were "promised" and then explaining why they wont to a client.

We were told back in the Army that the best messenger is one who truly doesn't know he is one because he doesn't show any indicators of deception.

There's several levels of the marketing of this that are 100% truthful, honest, sincere and believe to their core in what they are selling. They have invested and bought in and will defend it unto death.

Fact is- they are factually incorrect and no amount of logical fallacies will change it.

The hard part is that there is no painless way to deprogram them so we do the best we can knowing its going to hurt their feelings.

I tell the client that I cant change the laws of physics no matter how loud you scream and that's what's governing this situation- not the hype and belief.

The problem is that the next echelon ( the ones who do know they are being deceptive and deliberately so) stir the pot and use the "disciple class" as cannon fodder as needed to keep from having to address the direct questioning that would immediately expose them.
 
Yeah … they will be slower to penetrate the small town market where the average income is lower

The wealthiest here solve distance problems with private planes …
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk



The question is simply one of many in deciding if an EV and which EV is right for a given person. It is not the only one but it is key.
FYI range anxiety is real. It is the #1 issue owners need to understand, learn about and hopefully overcome.

In my experience, Tesla sales personnel are very helpful in speaking to many of the points you brought up.
I have spoke with many EV owners of the various makes. I have found them to be very honest about real world use and the ups and downs of their particular vehicle.
Any time I have posted here or on the Lexus site I have tried to be honest.


That's an overly simplistic statement about what's "right for the person" when certain elements are trying to ram a false technology down peoples throats and misrepresenting it as they go and then denying the total body of information to make this "choice".

Any of those EV owners need a work truck? Have to haul payloads? Tow trailers/boats etc. with a family? Have to use for industry or farm? If not then I formally question the quality of the dataset in terms of relevance to the key issues in dispute.

Post the taxonomy of this "condition" of range anxiety- until then its just another made up term. There's nothing to overcome that actual facts and data wouldn't "cure".

Its not about the decision (I wouldn't argue a well informed personal decision)- its about the snake technology peddlers deliberately altering the whole body of information to make the informed choice you speak of.

Being honest is one thing- being accurate and truthful in depth is another.

Many drink Kool-Aid and parrot words; Many truly believe them- its not an honesty question at the individual level

its about legitimate scientific data that's inclusive, relevant and contextual and transparent showing all aspects of the scenario- that's where the lying is and its at a higher level.

Just injecting facts and data into the mix






There is so much misinformation on here-is it done purposely- IN MOST CASES I think not. But this current discussion and the one on the other forums about Nissan/Honda motors and timing chains/timing belts is full of misinformation.

I would be interested in your thoughts. Thanks in advance!
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Tesla is well posied going forward business article.
Tesla


A true "warm and fuzzy" puff piece brought to the world by the unchallenged standard bearing of unbiased truthfulness in reporting
 
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