Why stick shifts rule...... 34.5 mpg's this morning on my wagon

Messages
1,462
Location
MD
Same commute as alway but this time i'm driving my "new" car,an 03 BMW 325i wagon my a car heavier by 500 pounds then the my previous ride(00 GTI). I did some pretty brisk driving this morning too,much more than usual [Smile] .I am confident I'll get even better mpg's when I drive more conservatively. This car is sweet!
 
Messages
13,228
Location
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Not for folks using cellphones, cigarettes & liquid refreshments. Also have to include the cost of a new clutch & bearing installation in a half-dozen years for many folks. Having a clutch last a vehilce lifetime is a rare occurence. No thanks! Been driving/owning since 1968. Never had an automatic fail & it's much smoother, easier & hands-free. Once you get used to paying slightly more at the pump, all the automatic benefits make me forget standard shifting.
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
quote:
Originally posted by Triple_Se7en: Not for folks using cellphones, cigarettes & liquid refreshments. Also have to include the cost of a new clutch & bearing installation in a half-dozen years for many folks. Having a clutch last a vehilce lifetime is a rare occurence. ...
If that is the case, you need to....refine your technique. My clutch is 17yrs old with 210,000 miles on it and working perfectly. I'll add another vote for stick...I will never own an auto. I'd rather give up my RWD for FWD and keep stickshift than keep RWD and go auto [Freak]
 
Messages
950
Location
Loveland, Ohio
Another vote for manual.... Never have to worry about unintended acceleration either! I typically get 150k out of a clutch. I frequently worry that they will not be available....too many cars now are only available with auto imo. Only car I have ever owned with an auto is the Odyssey I now drive. It is ok but I still prefer manual tranny, even in stop and go traffic.
 
Messages
391
Location
Richmond, VA
Manuals all the way!!! Automatics are for lazy, shiftless (no pun intended) people. My 94 Nissan pickup has around 140K miles on it, I'm still on the original clutch, and it hasn't started slipping yet.
 
Messages
47,765
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I agree to a point. Some new cars actually get better mileage with AT's!!! Sick I know. I only own manuals but they are becoming harder to find! The ultimate for our cars is 5th gear with cruise control on. No "AT" drag and steady even speed.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
45,952
Location
New Jersey
I like manual trans cars, but there is some benefits in traffic... man oh man, how bad I feel for my clutch when driving amongst idiots who jackrabbit start just to slam on their brakjes 20 feet ahead... I have to try to keep rolling, but you never know when the traffic will stop short again, and then Ill have to re-accelerate. MTs are the best, and i wish they were offered in more and more cars... its sad to see how lazy and unfocused people are, that MT cars dont sell hardly at all.. so folks can talk on their cellphones, floor their gas pedal and go as hard as they can, etc., etc. JMH
 
Messages
1,357
Location
California, USA
quote:
Originally posted by Triple_Se7en: Having a clutch last a vehilce lifetime is a rare occurence. No thanks! Been driving/owning since 1968. Never had an automatic fail & it's much smoother,
Nearly 140,000 miles so far and still no hint clutch problems on the BMW. Modern electronic overdrive automatics fail plenty. My second E4OD is failing on the Ford, at 130,000 miles. The last one was almost $2000. I agree that the typical 1968 automatic was bulletproof and similar vintage clutches did not last very long, having owned 1960's VW's (clutch) and Dodges (torqueflite).
 
Messages
3,094
Location
Metro Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by brianl703:
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2: amongst idiots who jackrabbit start just to slam on their brakjes 20 feet ahead
I believe they're suffering from depth-perception problems. I can't count the number of times I've seen spatially-challenged drivers stop 25 feet short of the car in front of them at a light, only to realize their mistake 20 seconds later and move up. It's gotten to the point where if I can see the light, I don't move until it turns green AND I see the car adjacent to the one in front of me start moving.

I think you're being way too nice. People like JHZR2 describes suffer only from impatience, a self-inflicted condition that's easily curable.
 
Messages
1,013
Location
wisconsin
I think I would rather have a manual then an automatic. All of the problems and the cost of a rebuilt automatic. It just seems like the old three speeds automatics could take a beating and hold up better then the new trannys. If they did fail you could get one rebuilt cheap. I think $400 to have a clutch replaced is better then the $2000+ to have one of the newer automatics rebuilt.
 
Messages
39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
Late model automatics (and for the past 20 years) are junk. They'll never have the durability that the 60's and early 70's automatics had. The earlier automatic may have had some issues in some usages ..but they endured very high torque/hp engines without a complaint for 100,000 miles or more. The rest of the car usually took a crap. You can keep 'em. They're too sophisticated and far too expensive to fix when they have issues. This is all due to CAFE and how transmission are designed around conforming to the best result int he test. This is so counter productive when perfectly good (and economical) cars are sent to the junkyard and are replaced with "high energy resource depleting" new vehicles ..only due to a faulty transmission that makes its repair not viable. This is the most shameful display of engineering competence. The clowns at Chrysler would not be abused if they were taken out and flogged ..you can add others to the list. I was soooooooooooo happy that my jeep has a simple TF904 (30RH) in it. A bozo can rebuild it in an afternoon ..and experienced tech ...2 hours out of the vehicle (taking his time)
 
Messages
2,329
Location
Lexington, KY
I prefer clutch and stick too, but there are cases when an automatic helps: 1. Stop and go traffic, especially with the idiotic driving others have described above. (Do we have to accelerate to 35mph to cover 100 yards)? My cars are low (compared to the prolific SUVs) so I can't always see far enough ahead when the road is straight. 2. When cars get much over 3,000 lbs the fun factor of a stick shift goes down. Maybe I just haven't driven nice heavier cars with a stick. My cars are old (both early 90s, Honda Civic sedan and Accord wagon) and prior owners had worn out the clutches by the time I bought them.
 
Messages
36,407
Location
ME
I can change a front-wheel-drive clutch with $50 in chinese walmart tools in my driveway in a day. I would expect to need a clean garage and all sorts of expensive fancy measuring devices to redo a slushbox. Furthermore, if I can get a servicable used car for nearly free because the previous owner blew the clutch, I'd be on it like white on rice. [Smile] Naturally, my opinions don't matter to the new car makers as I don't buy new. [Frown]
 
Messages
9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
Sticks are, at least for me, much more fun to drive -- when you can actually drive. Unfortunately, my life over the last few years has put me into major urban commuting traffic on a daily basis. When you spend long periods of time in bumper-to-bumper stop and go, the stick very quickly loses its charm. When my '02 5-speed manual Camry was destroyed in a wreck in New Orleans traffic, I reluctantly decided to go with the auto on the replacement. Between the M-F urban traffic jams and the long weekend rides home and back on I-10, I reluctantly decided in favor of the automatic. [Frown]
 
Messages
716
Location
San Gabriel Valley
Though I drive a manumatic Tiptronic(TY LA traffic) [Roll Eyes] ..am actually a dyed-in-the-wool stick shift guy..Heck, I learned to drive at twelve in a 4sp Bug. 5yrs ago I sold my '90 Civic 5sp 125k on the clock w/ the orig clutch setup(plate, release bearing, etc)since new..never needed any tranny repairs. Oh btw, my Passat also does 34.5mpg routinely..but now more often thanks to GC. [Cheers!] [ September 19, 2005, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: vwoom ]
 
Messages
9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
FWIW, the "manumatic" feature on my 5-spd auto G35 is totally worthless. It does an incredibly bad impersonation of a manual, so bad that I've completely given up on using it except for the most special of circumstances. Even then, the ECU routinely overrides the driver's manual choice, making attempts to use it even more frustrating. Still and all, it's a great car and I love driving it, but with the understanding that I've surrendered to the computer at least with respect to shifting. Hey, it would take a really bad trans to spoil almost 300 hp going through the rear wheels. The ECU makes the right choices 90% of the time, but still, that manual fun factor is just not there. My routine traffic jams are much less of a PITA though. Ah, compromises. . .
 
Messages
13,132
Location
By Detroit
I have heard that some manumatics will override the driver if the computer does not like what the driver is doing. I believe it is a CAFE driven thing. Hey, I love my stick shift F150. I really feel almost the same way Jason does,
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Troxell: I'll add another vote for stick...I will never own an auto. I'd rather give up my RWD for FWD and keep stickshift than keep RWD and go auto [Freak]
, but for one thing. I think I hate wrong wheel drive more than automatics and since I can get a manual valve body (for some automatics anyway), I think I would rather stick with rear wheel drive, even if it meant an automatic.
 
Messages
1,838
Location
Southeast Louisiana
quote:
Originally posted by Triple_Se7en: Not for folks using cellphones, cigarettes & liquid refreshments. Also have to include the cost of a new clutch & bearing installation in a half-dozen years for many folks. Having a clutch last a vehilce lifetime is a rare occurence. No thanks! Been driving/owning since 1968. Never had an automatic fail & it's much smoother, easier & hands-free. Once you get used to paying slightly more at the pump, all the automatic benefits make me forget standard shifting.
I drive a 5-speed, smoke, drink beverages and talk on my cell tel all at the same time, no problems. SteveH sums the rest up in his earlier post. Yes I did change the clutch on my manuel at 100,000 miles and it cost me $350 but if it was an auto. it would have cost me upwards of $1000 for a rebuilt one. I could replace a clutch almost 3 times for that.
 
Messages
239
Location
California
130k miles on my Neon clutch. This is an early car with the liquid filled multy plate clutch. I drive the snot out of it in mostly city traffic and its still going strong. Some new automatics get better fuel economy than the manual version in EPA tests but not rear world driving.
 
Messages
10,830
Location
Nokesville, VA
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2: amongst idiots who jackrabbit start just to slam on their brakjes 20 feet ahead
I believe they're suffering from depth-perception problems. I can't count the number of times I've seen spatially-challenged drivers stop 25 feet short of the car in front of them at a light, only to realize their mistake 20 seconds later and move up. It's gotten to the point where if I can see the light, I don't move until it turns green AND I see the car adjacent to the one in front of me start moving.
 
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